barrel rust, help please...

[huntn_ohio]

hello,this be my first post...I have a 50cal TC Renegade and while cleaning the barrel, I noticed some rust and pitting. Question is...am i able to clean it up and shoot, or once it starts pitting is it ruined? please help season opens 2marro> TY 

[flintlock]

Get some JB Bore paste, put on a cleaning patch and using your cleaning jag lap the barrel until it cleans up...Depending on how bad it is it might take 50-100 strokes...I'd use another JB Patch every 25-30 strokes or so...These guns are pretty forgiving, I've had to lap several for friends and never had to rebarrel one...

Also...Welcome!!!

[huntn_ohio]

thank you, really didnt wanna rebarrel..is bore butter the same thing?

[skarke]

Welcome to a great bunch of guys (except me )  No, some of the pitted barrels shoot just fine (I had one that was pretty bad that shot OK, certainly well enough to hunt with).  The key is to avoid petroleum solvents, use non petroleum cleaners (TC makes a nice water based liquid in a squirt bottle), and any of the lubes that smell like ben gay.  Clean it real well after your last shot and lube it up well enough to fill the pits before storage.  It shouldn't get worse, and you might find that "seasoning" will fill some of the smaller ones.

[skarke]

Yea, if you want to JB it, that's cool.  Just get ALL of it out.  Soap and water works great.  Then stick to non petroleum stuff, then clean up is super easy.

[Cuts Crooked]

thank you, really didnt wanna rebarrel..is bore butter the same thing?

No Bore Butter is not the same thing.  JB bore paaste is a very mild abrasive for cleaning badly fouled barrels. It's available from Brownells (do a search on the web)  and is an excellant product. If the pitting is very minor JB paste might get it smoothed out fer ya.

[DennyRoark]

My first 45 got pretty pitted toward the end.  Shot Maxi-balls just fine but the barrel would lead up, had to back the RB charge down and it was iffy.  But by then I was only hunting with it.  Like flintlock said, they are pretty forgiving.  Rifling is really shallow, don't take out too much!

[Ron T.]

Once you get the rust out... lubricate the rifle (bore, outside metal and even the wood) with Ballistol.

In a very thorough test of many different oils, preservatives, etc. on bare, mild steel plates, only Ballistol and one other very expensive lubricant kept the small, bare steel plates from rusting over during the 3 month test period... and none of the lubricants/preseratives were BETTER than Ballistol in keeping the rust and other "nasties" off the bare steel.

After 3 long months of exposure, the steel plate protected by Ballistol had absolutely NO rust on the metal whereas those plates with other lubs or protectors did have rust and, in some cases, the steel plates were completely rusted over.

You can find Ballistol in many gun shops and on line.  I paid $8.00 each for the 16 oz. cans I bought at the big Rendezvous in mid-June last year at Friendship, Indiana.

Perhaps the reason Ballistol works so well is because it is a water-soluable oil which can also be used to make that famous "moose milk" bore cleaner... and apparently, Ballistol absorbs water thus eliminating it's rust-causing properties.  I don't know that it's true, but it does seem logical since no rust at all appeared on the Ballistol treated mild steel plate in the test done on another net site dedicated to traditional muzzle loading, black-powder rifles and smooth-bores.

In addition to being recommend for a rifle's bore, it is also recommended by it's manufacture to be good for wood, leather, etc... a general lubricant and preservative.

Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[Swampman]

Olive oil can't be beat.  A little pitting won't hurt a thing.

[slayer]

I have heard Olive Oil makes a good lube for the ball patch also? I am going to have try the Ballistol also.

[skarke]

Ballistol.  Vegetable oils can cause varnish, imho.  Really though, that good ol' ben gay yellow stuff that TC makes is great.  It does a pretty good job at inhibiting rust (though I love Ballistol)  There was a guy down here in Texas that had a place called Rebel Arms in Pasadena (until the govt took his range to build a school).  It was a BP only store and shooting range.  His advice was to keep it simple.  The technology just isn't that complicated, nor should our accessories be.  Go to that range where the traditionalists shoot, and ask them.  They'll give you excellent advice, and good conversation.

   

[Lawful Larry]

I would suggest that if ballistol is used, make sure to use undiluded liquid.  Do not mix ballistol and water and then try to use if for a protective agent.  I did once and had my barrel completely covered with a fine rust.  Luck for me it wasn't pitted, just coated.  I cleaned it up and never use it again. 

I normally just use Remoil.  If you do use a pretroleum based lube, make sure to completely remove it before loading your gun.  This advice is from my own experience and just my opinion!  The option is yours.     

[Swampman]

Ballistol is mineral oil and water.  I wouldn't bother with it.

[Cuts Crooked]

Ballistol is mineral oil and water.  I wouldn't bother with it.

Oh REALLY!?!??!?!

MSDS for Ballitol:

F.W.KLEVER CHEMIE GMBH -- BALLISTOL -- 9150-01-391-7059
=====================  Product Identification  =====================

Product ID:BALLISTOL
MSDS Date:01/01/1987
FSC:9150
NIIN:01-391-7059
MSDS Number: BWHCX
=== Responsible Party ===
Company Name:F.W.KLEVER CHEMIE GMBH
Address:20 HAUPTSTRASSE, 84168 AHAM
City:GERMANY
Country:GE
Emergency Phone Num:919-261-0408
CAGE:C4878
=== Contractor Identification ===
Company Name:F.W.KLEVER CHEMIE GMBH
Address:20 HAUPTSTRASSE, 84168 AHAM
Box:City:GERMANY
Country:GE
CAGE:C4878
Company Name:WASHINGTON TRADING CO, INC. (IMPORTER) BALLISTOL USA
Address:1 CYPRESS KNEE TRAIL
Box:City:KITTY HAWK
State:NC
ZIP:27949-9223
Country:US
Phone:252-261-6181
CAGE:0ZKM2

=============  Composition/Information on Ingredients  =============

Ingred Name:LIQUID PARAFFIN OIL
CAS:8012-95-1
RTECS #:PY8030000
Other REC Limits:NONE RECOMMENDED
OSHA PEL:5 MG/M3
ACGIH TLV:5 MG/M3 (MIST); 9394

Ingred Name:POTASSIUM OLEATE
CAS:143-18-0
RTECS #:RK1150000
Other REC Limits:NONE RECOMMENDED

Ingred Name:BENZYL ALCOHOL
CAS:100-51-6
RTECS #:DN3150000
Other REC Limits:NONE RECOMMENDED

Ingred Name:VOLITILE ORGANIC CONTENT, NON-AEROSOL
RTECS #:9999999VC
Fraction by Wt: 5.3%
Other REC Limits:NONE RECOMMENDED

=====================  Hazards Identification  =====================

Routes of Entry: Inhalation:NO   Skin:YES  Ingestion:NO
Reports of Carcinogenicity:NTP:NO    IARC:NO   OSHA:NO
Health Hazards Acute and Chronic:NONE KNOWN. NO LD50 ORAL COULD BE
    DETERMINED FOR RATS & RABBITS BASED ON SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE.
    MANUFACTURER CLASSIFIES PRODUCT AS NON-TOXIC, WHEN USED AS
    DIRECTED.
Explanation of Carcinogenicity:PER MSDS:NO NTP PUBLICATION. NO IARC
    MONOGRAPH.
Effects of Overexposure:NONE KNOWN.
Medical Cond Aggravated by Exposure:NONE KNOWN.

=======================  First Aid Measures  =======================

First Aid:IN THE EVENT OF CONTACT WITH EYES, FLUSH EYES WITH WATER. IF
    INGESTED CONSULT A PHYSICIAN.

=====================  Fire Fighting Measures  =====================

Flash Point:124F,51C
Lower Limits:1.7
Upper Limits:6.0
Extinguishing Media:FOAM, CARBON DIOXIDE, WATER.
Fire Fighting Procedures:NONE.WEAR PROTECTIVE GEAR & SELF-CONTAINED
    BREATHING APPARATUS AS NECESSARY, DEPENDING ON CONDITIONS.
Unusual Fire/Explosion Hazard:NONE SPECIFIED BY MFG FOR NON-AEROSOL
    PRODUCT.

==================  Accidental Release Measures  ==================

Spill Release Procedures:WIPE UP W/ABSORBENT RAGS OR USE OIL-ABSORBENT
    MATERIAL. SWEEP UP AND PLACE IN CONTAINER. WASH AREA WITH WARM
    WATER & DETERGENT TO ELIMINATE SLIPPERINESS.

======================   Handling and Storage  ======================

Handling and Storage Precautions:STORE IN COOL, DRY PLACE OUT OF
    SUNLIGHT. DO NOT STORE IN AREAS EXPO TO TEMP >48.9C. STORE & USE IN
    VENTILATED ROOM. KEEP AWAY FROM HOT SURFACES.
Other Precautions:KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.

=============  Exposure Controls/Personal Protection  =============

Respiratory Protection:NOT REQUIRED.
Ventilation:VENTILATION:LOCALLY AS NEEDED. MECHANICAL:AS NEEDED.
Protective Gloves:NOT REQUIRED.
Eye Protection:NOT NORMALLY REQUIRED.
Other Protective Equipment:INDUSTRIAL USERS SHOULD WEAR SAFETY GLASSES
    AS NECESSARY UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. OTHER PROT EQPT:NOT NORMALLY
    REQUIRED.
Work Hygienic Practices:AVOID CONTACT W/EYE & PROL SKIN CONTACT.USE IN
    VENTI AREAS.DON'T USE AROUND FLAME/HOT SURFACE.DON'T SPRAY INTO OPN
    FLAME
Supplemental Safety and Health
POUR POINT:-17C.

==================  Physical/Chemical Properties  ==================

HCC:V3
Boiling Pt:B.P. Text:262F,128C
Spec Gravity:0.865G/CM3 @20C
Evaporation Rate & Reference:MODERATE @20C,REF=UNK
Solubility in Water:EMULSIFIES
Appearance and Odor:YELLOWISH OIL, SLIGHTLY SWEWET OR FRAGRANT.

=================  Stability and Reactivity Data  =================

Stability Indicator/Materials to Avoid:YES
NONE  KNOWN.
Stability Condition to Avoid:NONE SPECIFIED BY MFG.
Hazardous Decomposition Products:NONE.

====================  Disposal Considerations  ====================

Waste Disposal Methods:FOLLOW ALL APPLICABLE FEDERAL & LOCAL
    REGULATIONS.

 ===========================================================

Does anyone see H2o listed there?

Come on Swamp! It EMUSIFIES in water! Doesn't CONTAIN it!

[Swampman]

They don't have to put the water on the MSDS sheet.

[Cuts Crooked]

They don't have to put the water on the MSDS sheet.

Yeah, and they don't put it in Ballistol either! As previously noted, it EMULSIFIES in water. Duh!!!  

Ingredients
(according to a specification from December 2002)

pharmaceutical white oil: CAS RN 8042-47-5
Oleic acid: CAS RN 112-80-1
C-5 alcohols: CAS RN 78-83-1; CAS RN 137-32-6; CAS RN 100-51-6
different essential oils to perfume Ballistol

[skarke]

Let's be nice boys   The bottom line, none of this stuff existed 100 years ago, and our great, great grandpappys did pretty well with everything from beeswax to bear oil.  Ballistol's rust inhibiting property comes from it's extremely low surface tension, allowing it to creep (sorry swampy, it doesn't contain water).  That said, I live on the coast and do pretty well with good ol natural lube.  My bores (3) stay pristine by running a well lubed patch after thorough cleaning with #13.  All this new fangled stuff sort of defeats the point of "primitive arms" IMHO.

[Winter Hawk]

Prior to final preservative oiling, after cleaning, run a patch with 90% or higher alcohol (I got mine at the paint section of the hardware store) down the bore, followed by a dry patch.  That will get all the water out before oiling or greasing the bore.  It's great to do that before loading also, to remove the oils and have a clean bore to shoot with.

-WH-

[Swampman]

It's got water in it.

[skarke]

Nuu uhhhh

[Cuts Crooked]

It's got water in it.

Ok Swamp, show us where you found that piece of information. I'm really curious where/how you got that idea in your head. As noted by another poster, in torture tests Ballsitol was one of the best at preventing rust. Now if you jist made up out of whole cloth to get a ruckus going please say so now so we can all laugh and move on.

Seems I recall that eezox was one of the few that outperformed it in long term rust prevention?

[quickdtoo]

Here are all the tests that I have, read em and make a choice, I'm very happy with Eezox after using it for the past 20yrs or so. 

Tim

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion.html

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html

[Cuts Crooked]

Here are all the tests that I have, read em and make a choice, I'm very happy with Eezox after using it for the past 20yrs or so.  

Tim

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion.html

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/rust.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html

Thanx Tim! That second one is one of sites I'd been searching for recently!

Read em 'n weep Swampy!

[Swampman]

Doesn't change my mind one bit.  Mineral oil & water isn't a suitable gun lube.

[Cuts Crooked]

Doesn't change my mind one bit.  Mineral oil & water isn't a suitable gun lube.

ROFLMAO!!!! Yup! Swampy is right, mineral oil 'n water ain't a suitable gun lube! So he won' halfta change his mind ....on accounta that's not what Ballistol is! <snicker>

Hey Swamp, you never said where ya got that d@m fool idea stuck in yer head. How about fillin' us all in? If you can of course

[nw_hunter]

hello,this be my first post...I have a 50cal TC Renegade and while cleaning the barrel, I noticed some rust and pitting. Question is...am i able to clean it up and shoot, or once it starts pitting is it ruined? please help season opens 2marro> TY  

Welcome to the forum!

Don't worry about a little pitting.Just dump some real black powder down the barrel, followed by a patched roundball and make some smoke.

If you want to remove some of the pitting, try using some fine steel wool wrapped around a 50 bore brush, with tooth paste on it.The old fashion abrasive kind

Everyone has a favorite kind of lube to use, and swear it will out perform all others.
Ballistol, Bore Butter, Rem oil..........the list is endless! The important thing (IMHP) is to scrub the barrel out with warm soapy water and get that puppy really dry before applying your favorite lube.
I've used every kind under the sun, and now just use Olive oil. It's cheap, and it works!

[gcrank1]

And FWIW, sometimes old gunmakers reference the use of 'rapeseed oil' in the shop for tooling and mention has been made of it as a patch lube. Rapeseed is now readily available as Canola Oil. Olive Oil used to be called 'Sweet Oil' and was also used in BPC lube formulas.
Both historically correct and still effective, but I like my Sperm and Bear oils the best, but even 'goose grease' will work.
Clean up that bore as well as you can and use it. When you can shoot better than it does, get a new barrel, or rifle that exceeds your abilities and keep having fun.

[Swampman]

Doesn't change my mind one bit.  Mineral oil & water isn't a suitable gun lube.

ROFLMAO!!!! Yup! Swampy is right, mineral oil 'n water ain't a suitable gun lube! So he won' halfta change his mind ....on accounta that's not what Ballistol is! <snicker>

Hey Swamp, you never said where ya got that d@m fool idea stuck in yer head. How about fillin' us all in? If you can of course

Ballistol is mineral oil & water.

[skarke]

Too funny swampy

[Cuts Crooked]

Yup! He's hilleryous ain't he? He cain't back up his statement but he b'lieves iffin he sayz it enuff, it'll become true. <snicker>