38 special in a 357 mag barrel

[stxhunter]

Working on a new turkey gun. I would like to build a pistol with the 357 mag barrel and shoot 38 specials in it for the birds. Question is will it shoot the 38's accurately. Just thinking it would be nice to have the 357 cababilities for that hog I might encounter.

[Hopalong7]

     Yes sir...it will shoot'm just fine & dandy.  You'll have to try it in your individual barrel to find out how accurately.  I've not tied it in mine, but I've heard tales of excellent to poor results, so take your pick.  What I have done in mine, and reccomend, is reduced loads in 357 brass and I have gotten very good accuracy with these.  I've not actually done it, but I've always thought a 38 wadcutter would be a fine bullet for reasonably close turkey shootin'.  I hear ya on the versatility bit.  You could also carry snake shot loads for those wiggly things in the spring. Walt

[stxhunter]

Yup...... I know about them rattlin snakes! We have a good population of em. I even thought I might go with a straight 38 special and shoot have some hot 38's on hand. I do not reload yet but the priceing and availability of ammo might drive me to it.

[tc scout]

I shoot 38 wadcutters in my 357 686 smith all the time.
Even with the 2" barrel they are very accurate out to 25-30 yds.
Loaded with mags I carry it for short range deer hunting and backup.
Was amazed at the accuracy of the 686, it's a keeper.
Best plinker load I have shot in mine is Berry's 148 gr. HB wadcutters with 3.2 grs. of Unique.

[stxhunter]

Thanks Scout. I will probably shoot a solid lead round for turkey hunting. It makes sense to buy the 357 barrel since it would be more versatil and probably be worth more if I decided to sell it. As long as it will shoot very accurate at 30 yards. I do most of my deer and hog hunting with a 44 mag. but the 357 would be a good round  for a backup barrel.

[Hopalong7]

 stxhunter, You may be surprized how potent that 357 is out of a closed breech 10" tube, especially with some 180gr pills. Walt

[stxhunter]

The 357 is quite potent and is almost what I decided on for my main hunting gun. I went with the 44 because I could find a better variety of rounds for the hogs. The 44 in an Encore frame is heavy enough to take any sting out of the 44 and would be fine with the 357 too. 

[mcwoodduck]

I load 44 Special loads in the 44 Mag case.  I do it more as I am lazy and only have to keep 44 mag brass and do not need to adjust the reloader between play loads and hunting loads. Although 180 grains at 1,000 FPS is pretty potent for pins and target but little recoil out of either the M29 or the T/C).
If you are worried about the free bore and junping the gap to the lands and grooves.
Load your 38 loading in the 357 Case that is only 1/10 of an inch longer.
You may fiind that you will load the same load just different projectile types.
lead round nose 158 grain for birds and 158 grain JSP for hogs.  The rifle will increase you velocity over handguns and a 38 special load out of the rifle may give you 357 mag pistol proformance.

[shot1]

It depends on where you are hunting. Check your regs. Many states don't allow turkey hunting with pistols or rifles. Shotguns only. Most 357 mags will shoot 38 Specials very accurately. I would use a target wad cutter or a semi wad cutter. The round nose lead bullet does not kill real quickly unless you hit the CNS.

[Lager]

Stxhunter, I shoot a 357 in a 10 barrel at targets only.
Since hunters and target shooters ,need accuracy, Ive done a good bit of experimenting different heads,powders and over all length in reloading quest for the most accurate 357. This is what I have come up with so far.
Contender 357 mag barrels have a large amount of leade, this is the area from the tip of the case to where the forceing cone takes control of the bullet head.
Useing standard 357 mag ammo measures 1.590 length and accuracy @50 yards was about 2 inches for a 5 shot group. This wasnt what I was expecting from a contender, so I started walking the bullet heads outwards or lengthening the over all length of the assembled cartridge.
I noticed that the accuracy increased a lot the longer I made it,till I went too far, then it fell off again.
My best groups from my barrel (So far,still working) have been 3/4 inch @50 using 5 shots. This is what I use.
2400 powder,11.5 grains
CCI mag primers
Berry's 158 grain plated heads and taper crimped.
1.610-1.630 over all length.
Your results might vary, hope this help deciding what to do.
Forgot to mention, I been working on some lead heads some folks have been making for me in the 160 grain range. Same above loading but groups increased to 1.5 inches.

[tc scout]

IMO The most accurate load may not be the one with the least amount of lead in some barrels.   
Example: I load 180gr. XTP's in my 357Max. That bullet has 2 canelures. While working up different loads I was useing the first groove and was shooting good groups
t 50 yds. Decided to try moving the bullet closer to the  throat useing the second groove. That moves the bullet out close to 1/4".
Same case,primer and powder. Things went south in a hurry. Glad I only loaded 10.
Also if bullet lead was so important, why do some 357 mag revolvers shoot 38's so well ?
Just kind of mystified about bullet lead.                          

[Lager]

TC scout, good questions and observations.
I agree with you, a large bullet jump like you did (1/4 inch) turned my hand gun into a shot gun looking target.
I worked my load up slowly, .010 at a time. Loaded up 10 rounds, two separate targets till I came up something that works.
Anything over 1.630, the bullets scatter terribly.
Concerning shooting 38's from a revolver and having better accuracy. I noticed that also back when I had a Nice smith and a Dan wesson. But I think it was more shooter comfort and less flinch going on there.A full power 357 in a pistol kicks quite a bit, useing a 38 allows you to concentrate better. Less recoil makes you a better shooter.
Now that I have the contender, its a lot heavier and stout then a revolver. Have it mounted with a scope and a bipod. Im less influenced by recoil and more exacting in my shooting as compared to me old 357 pistol shooting days.

[stxhunter]

Thanks to all for all the input. As I said before I am not currently reloading so my ammo will be factory loads. So if I go ahead with the 357 and it does not shoot the 38's as I would like, I can always shoot a more tame 357 load. All of my shots wil be head shots so type of bullet is not much concern other than for accuracy. The gun will have a 2 MOA red dot on it. The 38 appeals to me also because of muzzle blast of the 357. My hearing just aint the same anymore.

[stxhunter]

Also forgot to tell Shot1 that you can shoot turkeys in Texas with centerfire cartridges.

[shot1]

Good luck hitting a turkey in the head. They almost never stop moving.
I too have found that heaver bullet full house loads shoot best in my 10" barrel Contender.
I also have found that if I load the 180 XTP in the second groove to make the OAL longer my accuracy drops off.
I use the max load listed in the 2006 Hodgdon annual manual.
My Load: Federal case, CCI 550 primer, 13.5 grs H-110, 180 Hornady XTP, OAL 1.575. I use a roll crimp.
This load is very accurate in my pistol. I have taken deer out to 107 yards with it. On this deer the bullet entered the  center of the right front shoulder as the deer slightly quartered toward me. The deer stumbled and almost went down but got it's feet under it and ran about 50 yards and died. The bullet went through the shoulder across the chest cavity taking out the lungs then punched the liver and was found under the hide at the edge of the beginning of the left ham. Don't let people tell you that a 357 mag in a Contender is not good deer medicine.

About 30 years ago with a different 10" 357 mag barrel than I now have I loaded, if my memory servers me correct, 2.8 grs Bullseye in a 38 Special case under a 148 gr HBWC. This was head shot accurate on a squirrel out to about 50 yards. I have not tried it in the barrel I now have.

I would try some of the heavy bullet factory loads for deer from Remington or Federal.

Black Hills also makes a cowboy action lead bullet 158 gr 800 fps  357 mag load.

[stxhunter]

Thanks Shot1 I will keep that info in mind. Calling a smart ole turkey is the challenge. Shooting it with a scattergun is gravey. Shooting it in the head with a pistol, whole lotta gravey! I think I will go with the MGM 357 barrel. Only question now is barrel lenth.

[rickyp]

I have a 357 mag bullberry barrel that is 12" I was talking to them and they said never shoot 38's out of a bullberry barrel because of the way the chamber is cut.

I had a factory 10" 357 barrel and the person that had it before me shot a very large number of 38's out of it and eroded the barrel right where the 38 case mouth sits.

if you shot 38 out of a 357 mag chamber you need to clean the chamber very well before shooting 357 ammo in it as carbon and lead will build up and cause you issues

[Q]

I've owned a TC with a 10" 357 Barrel in the past and shot just about everything from 38 sub to +P and 357 Hot loads. The best gp I got at 100yds was with 158gn Magtech. 3"gps with a 2X scope benchrest. When I cleaned it I did see where it shaved some lead from I guess was the 38's but it didn't stop me from shooting that day.

[stxhunter]

Very interesting info Rickyp. I knew that shooting 38's out of the 357 barrel would cause fouling but never heard it could erode the barrel at the end of the 38 case. wow! Now that is something to think about. Anybody else heard of this? Also, do the hot plus type 38's even come close to the regular 357 loads?

[rickyp]

I do not know how many rounds where shot trough that barrel but I shot about 500 rounds of 38 and didnt see any diffrance in the ring

[stxhunter]

You would think if the 38 but an erosion ring in the barrel then the 357 would too. Very interesting!

[rickyp]

it will as well, but you normaly see it in the forcing cone (if you have one cut n the chamber) or the rifling. it normaly doesn't happen with a few hundred rounds. there are calibers known  for eatting away the chamber, at one time the weatherby rounds where very good for this.

[Lager]

Not really surprised that heavy use of 38 in a thompson 357 mag barrel would cause some erosion problems.This is quite common in  357 revolvers using slow burning powders that have seen a lot of use .
Whats happens is that, not all of of the powder is used up during fireing. The excess flash acts as a cutting torch against any metal it might come in contact with.
In a Thompson, its going to be the barrel, especially when useing 38.The free bore jump of the bullet till it hits the rifleing, thats all open space for flame cutting to occur.
In revolvers, its noticed on the top strap just forward of the cylinder.
If you ever shot a high power round thru a revolver at night, you will see two pizza sized flashes on either side of the cylinder. Thats the unburnt gasses that act as a cutting torch. You wont see that in  a Thompson closed chamber, buts thats what is happening when you shoot a 38 in a 357 barrel.
Why not reload your own ? Its pretty darn easy and then you dont have to worry about all this stuff?
Cheaper then you think with a single stage.

[stxhunter]

Reloading is probably going to happen very soon for me. I used to reload rifle, pistol ,and shotgun. Was out of shooting for a while but now shoot a fair amount of 308 win. in an Encore rifle and the 44mag encore pistol. With the price and availability of ammo the way it is, looks like I need to reload.

[stxhunter]

That was good info Lager. I understand about the flame erosion that can happen. Thanks to everyones input on this matter!

[Lager]

I just got back into reloading myself. Used to have a Dillion progressive,hard times hit back a while ago and I had to sell it. Now Im useing a Lee breech lock single stage,works great but very tedious and time consuming as compared to my old Dillion. But a lot cheaper !
Realistically, the single stage is fine. Its not like your going to burn thru a lot of ammo useing a single shot pistol.

[tc scout]

Boy, I don't know about that Lager, I can sure shoot-um faster than I can reload um.
The  Better Half can burn up her share too.
       (Couldn't resist a little humor)
I reload on a single stage also,  have no desire for a progressive reloader.
I enjoy each and every step of the process, not in a hurry, it is a hobby for me.
I feel like I have more control over the quality of my reloads.
What better way to spend some of these Looooong winter nights.               

[stxhunter]

My old RCBS was a single stage loader and worked just fine. Till I was dumb enough to sell it!

[blhof]

The best place I've found to down a turkey with a pistol round is to pin the wing at the shoulder from a broadside.  I've taken two this way and both dropped where shot and alot easier than trying to sight in the head in the field.  I also had minimal tissue damage and all the breast meat was usable.

[stxhunter]

Right you are blhof. That is good shot placement. Used to shoot em there with a bow. Shootin them in the head is just a challenge I like. If they make me mad, out will come the scatter gun!