A friends brother killed him self.

[DalesCarpentry]

There is this kid (I consider a friend) that I worked with all of last summer. He just got out of colledge for a degree in drafting. He is like 22 years old. He is a hard worker and a fast learner. He took the job with us because he needed to have a job while trying to find a job in what he went to school for. Did I say he is a supper nice kid. At 22 he has only been with just one girl. Well he has like 3 brothers and a sister. He is second to the youngest with his younger brother still in high school. Back in November the next older brother tried to kill him self. His brother's girl friend left him. He was pretty bummed out over that. He smoked a little weed to relax and just kind of forget about it. This guy was like 24 or 25 and worked for a power company. Well this power company holds random drug tests. He come in on a Monday and they told him to go pee on a cup. Mean while he smoked a little weed over the weekend. This kid was not a drug addict. He knew he was going to loose his job over this back in November. They have 0 tolarance over such things. Him being heavy in debt and knowing he was going to loose his job over it he tried to kill himself. This really ripped my buddy apart. He really was beside himself. I told him you really need to be there for your brother now and be sure you let him know how if he would have died how it would affect you. His brother spent that 72 hour thing where they watch you and decide weather or not to let you loose. Well the test come back and he was fired. I don't know how he killed himself yet or just when he was fired but I sure feel real bad for my friend. This brings back real bad momeries from my brother killing himself when I was 15 years old. It took me a long time to get over that. Then almost 3 years ago my sister did the same. They say it was an ODD but I am pretty sure she did what she set out to do. I feel real bad for this kid and have not had a chance to talk to him about it yet. Geeze I know from past experince there is nothing I can say to make him feel any better about it. I have already said a prayer for him and his family today but even that does not seem like enough. I don't expect to see him at work for at least a week and feel it will be akward when he does talk about it. Dale

[blind ear]

Bubba, it proves to be true.

[billy_56081]

Well Dale you can't control wat others do. It's too bad for the family of this guy. I'm no lawyer but I am pretty sure htey could nt fire him if he put himself in treatment and this was his first hot whiz quiz. Suicide is the cowards way out and it realy is a way to crap on the ones that love ya the most. One of my brothers former deputies that was gotten rid of over some issues with his behavior, he went nuts years ago, kiiled himself on Christmas eve nad his son found him with his brains blown out. I think of him as a selfish peice of crap.

[MGMorden]

Small world.  Almost the exact same thing occurred here recently (when skimming over your post I thought it may have been the same person until a few details were off).

My best friend in high school, and roommate in college had a younger brother, 22 years old.  He was found dead in the woods 2 nights ago.  Truck was still running, and his shotgun was next to him.  They're still investigating but initial reports are that it looks like a suicide. 

Not sure what set this kid off.  As far as I know he wasn't having any emotional problems - my younger sister is his age and she said she spoke with him 2 weeks ago and he seemed fine.  Don't know.  Maybe it really was an accident (or maybe there was someone else involved).  Or maybe he really was having problems that he wasn't talking to anyone about.   Either way, sad situation all around.

[DalesCarpentry]

I have always believed since my brother killed himself that it is a perment solution to a temporay problem. Dale

[Spanky]

I have always believed since my brother killed himself that it is a perment solution to a temporay problem. Dale

You're right Dale. I'm sorry for the loss of your brother.
I'm sure you know there are gonna be some d!ckhead responses to this thread (already had one) but don't let 'em bother you.
I hope you're doing well with your own problem too.



Spanky

[DalesCarpentry]

I should know better but his really bothers me to the core. Dale

[LONGTOM]

Other than being terminally ill or in such a way that it would be a financial disaster on the family there is nothing in this world that would ever make me want to kill myself.
Doing so you would never know how things might turn out.
All that says is that you don't have faith in GOD ALL MIGHTY to help you through the tough times.
There's other jobs and other girls, maybe even better than what they had.
I feel for the family's of these weak soles.
As stated above, "it really is the cowards way out"!
Dumb, just plain DUMB!!!
I'm sorry if I sound cold about this but that's the way I feel about it.



LONGTOM

[Redtail1949]

Suicide is just such a sad and tragic thing to and for all concerned. like many here i have family and friends, several, that have used it as a way out of what they percieved to be unsolvable problems. mostly involving marriage or divorce problems some were job related along with finances.

at my place of employment i was a union representative and trained extensively to deal with drug and alcohol abuse by employees. i have seen so many lose their jobs and families over drugs and alcohol use over the years. if there is one thing i do know, it is nothing and i mean nothing will bring a person to the point of stopping such behavior except themselves. all the threats and all the punishment will have no effect unless the person values something more, their family, their marriage, their children something anything more than the drugs or the booze. sadly many if not most will cling to the drugs or booze. the selfish and the weak always choose with themselves and what they want at the top of their list. they seldom if ever consider any other person including those that really love them. they can not as they have allways been selfish and their wants and needs come first at any cost.

it has been my experience that those that are weak in character or moral strength are the ones that will kill themselves and sometimes even members of their own family. they just do not have that something to reach for in those dark and foreboding times something to hold to that will carry them through. it is my opinion that that is a religious background that will let them know that all will work out. the loss of a job or wife or family split by divorce is not the end of the world. happiness can come after the most terrible tragedy. life will never be the same but life can continue. as mentioned i had a friend just 3 years ago blow his brains out in the home in front of his pregnant 16 year old daughter (his reason) and her mother. then his son just got off the school bus walked in an he had to witness a scene that shocked him so bad he is in a mental hospital today and has not spoken to anyone since it happened. not to mention the effect on the girl and her child. all because he could not deal with life and he was so affected by such a thing is unbelieveable to me.
i hate his father for doing that to his family for being so selfish so immature as to force upon those that loved him such horrible memories. simply unforgiveable.
to those that are left, such as you dale, i can not imagine what it must be like as those have not been that close in relationship to me. one was my uncle but i was very young at the time and really did not grasp what happened. the other was my first wifes uncle whom i liked very much and i was stunned because he showed no signs to me or anyone that he would do something like that. if it is because of terminal illness or pain physical pain that is i can understand but not in front of anyone not so they will find it.
dale all i can say is that i am sorry that you have had to deal with that and i know nothing will ever give you the answers for your brothers actions, that is none that will justify or explain in terms that you or i will ever understand.
peace to you and others that have had to deal with such situations will be hard to find. as there are no answers that satisfy. put your trust in the lord and go on with your lives and enjoy what he turned his back on.

[bubba]

suicide is tough on everyone except the coward who does it no doubt.

[williamlayton]

Coward??
Blessings

[powderman]

DALE. I'm truly sorry for your loss.  Prayers sent friend. Charlie. 

[Questor]

That's a shame. I feel sorry for the family. As a parent I'd feel I had failed if either of my kids killed themselves over a job.

[GRIMJIM]

I had an uncle that commited suicide. He did it in front of his best friend and left behind a daughter. It was a terrible thing to do to both of them.

We lost track of the friend. Every time he came over for holidays aftrer that he kept seeing my uncle in the faces of the relatives there and just couldn't handle that.

His daughter is estranged also, suicidal tendencies, lesbian and who knows what other mental problems she ended up with.

As was said, it's harder on the ones left behind.

Be there for your friend, that's about all you can do.

[DDZ]

I used to manage a youth baseball team, that my son played on. There was a boy on the team who was 14 at the time and was always a quiet kid, never caused a bit of trouble, and always did what was asked of him. I would try to joke around with him to make him feel more comfortable with the other kids, and try to get him to interact with the other kids. A couple of years later he shot himself with one of his dads hand guns. I had grew up with his father and knew his mother well. They were very good people, and I can't begin to imagine the pain they had to endure from this tragedy.
I never did hear if he had any problems at the time with any thing. I was just shocked that this boy, from what I knew of him could have taken his own life. 

[Hairtrigger]

Yes
COWARD
Last spring my best friend killed himself.
I feel he was not man enough to face the mistakes he made.

[blind ear]

DDZ, I knew a kid like that. All the kids at soccer called him fag. He is in special forces now and has accomplished all aspects of operation includeing killing an unfriendly with a knife. So goes the path one chooses.

eddiegjr

[rio grande]

Yes
COWARD
Last spring my best friend killed himself.
I feel he was not man enough to face the mistakes he made.

Weak maybe.  Sick maybe.  Some people might feel by killing themselves they are 'paying' for their mistakes. 
We should not speak poorly of the dead.

[mirage1988]

It's sad when people kill themselves, but even more tragic is when they go on a rampage and kill others before shooting themselves or being shot by cops.

[Questor]

I don't agree with the coward argument. A certain number of people are going to kill themselves. We don't really know what messes them up. It's usually a sad thing.

I remember reading about the big rash of suicides in Japan in the late 50s and early 60s. Kids were pressured to excel and they couldn't handle it, so they killed themselves.

[rio grande]

My niece killed herself.  A beautiful young woman.  Brilliant too. Advanced studies in Artificial Intelligence.  Certainly no coward.  
We lost a good one when she died. She could have made a difference for the better in this world.
Very sad.

[billy_56081]

I was wondering at least in the past some churches would not hold a burial service or bury suicides on holy ground. Is this still true? At our church the one guy who was a suicide is buried way back in the corner away from everyone else. Is this because suicide is an unfogivable sin?

[jimster]

One of my best friends killed himself around 25 years ago, there is nothing you can say or do if someone is bent on doing that.  To us it's not logical to kill ourselves, we all know we are going to die anyway so what's the big hurry, but to someone who is mentally unstable there is no logic there.

Yes
COWARD
Last spring my best friend killed himself.
I feel he was not man enough to face the mistakes he made.

Might sound strange to some, but this is how I felt way back when my friend killed himself back then, he was drunk as usuall, wife left him for good reason, cops were looking for him, and all his trouble was brought on to himself by his own doings. I carried his casket. I felt like Hairtrigger does.  I guess I understand, I was thinking the very same thing Hairtrigger thinks. Sometimes I still think about it and get mad at him for not listening to me when I tried to talk sense into him.  Every case is different I'm sure, and the reasons are different, in my friends case, he was too weak and took the easy way out instead of trying hard to straighten up. All cases are different like I said...but to Hairtrigger, I know how you feel, maybe your experience was like mine. Time will heal some of what you feel, hang in there. 

Jim

[ironglow]

  Dale;
  Suicide is always very hard for those left behind and my prayers are with them. I also have a concern for you Dale. Not long ago you were quite depressed and voiced it here on GBO. I would suggest you think about seeing a professional concerning your depression.
   So often, suicide actually runs in families..not the idea of suicide, but there is some kind of hereditary chemical imbalance which causes depression to lead in that direction. When you said your brother and sister have already commited suicide, a red flag went up (IMO).
     There once was a family of 4 sons back here in our general neighborhood. I knew 2 of the 4 quite well, having worked with them.One by one over the years, they each committed suicide...Now, these were what everybody would call "nice guys" and generally cheerful fellows..well liked. For the most part, the day each died was much like any other day.. and they showed no sign of such a thought. It was almost as if the impulse was something that moved them within a few minutes; only one of them showed any real planning, and his was a particularly grisly death.
  I am no professional in the field so I cannot give you professional advice, I'm only telling you as an old, experienced man that sometimes this proclivity runs in families. It is some kind of chemical imbalance or such, and the only shame connected would be if one doesn't seek help when they know there is such a potential problem.

[Spanky]

suicide is tough on everyone except the coward who does it no doubt.

Alot of soldiers come home with PTSD and kill themselves.
ARE THEY COWARDS??

2 members of my family have committed suicide.
WERE THEY COWARDS??
I can tell you they were not.

If you don't have enough compassion to speak a kind word or offer a moment of sympathy maybe it would be best if you kept your mouth shut.

Spanky

[rio grande]

I was reading this just now, and I thought it applied....It's from the weekly 'notebook' of Abbot Philip, of The Monastery of Christ in the Desert, in New Mexico.  Benedictines.

"Sometimes it is easy to look at another person and judge them for not doing something that we could do. This shows part of the futility and even evil of judging another person. We do not know what goes on inside of them and most often we do not know much of their personal histories. When we judge others, so often it is in measuring them to ourselves--and we are never the right measure.

It is better for us always to give the benefit of the doubt to our sister or brother and be aware of our own failures, which we are more qualified to judge!"


http://christdesert.org/About_Us/Abbot_s_and_Cellarer_s_Pages/Abbot_s_Notebook/index.html

If the idea of a Monastery is unusual to you, you should take a look!

[pastorp]

I was wondering at least in the past some churches would not hold a burial service or bury suicides on holy ground. Is this still true? At our church the one guy who was a suicide is buried way back in the corner away from everyone else. Is this because suicide is an unfogivable sin?

Billy, I can't speak for all clergy or every church. But There is no discrimination on my part as a pastor or in the church I pastor towards those who have commited sucide. I have no way of knowing exactly what happened in their final moments of life between them and God so I try to offer whatever comfort to the family I can. To me that means encouraging them to trust a loving and just God to do what is right.
If we turn to God and ask for peace God will answer. All the pain does not go away immediately, but day by day as we walk with God it will get better.
Just so you don't think I just learned this in a theology class, my brother killed himself, So I have personal experience with this situation.

Regards,

[ironglow]

I was wondering at least in the past some churches would not hold a burial service or bury suicides on holy ground. Is this still true? At our chirch the one guy who was a suicide is uried way back in the corner away from everyone else. Is this because suicide is an unfogivable sin?

   Billy;
   I am going to tell youi my view on the subject and the view of most evangelical, Bible-believing Christians. Some may disagree, and that is their perogative. I am also the administrator for our local cemetery and though I am not the "groundskeeper" I do participate in some of the day to day maintenance and have a burden to oversee the neatness and move through the monuments as I measure plots and oversee burials etc.
   There is a stone near the main drive for one of the brothers I spoke about above. The front is inscribed with the name & date with room left for the widow. On the back it speaks of how they miss him and is signed by the wife and three children. Heartbreaking...
       His family  had as much right to bury him in that prominent place as anyone had to bury their loved ones where they chose.  I understand you to be a saved Christian..  Remember when you were saved and all sins were washed away..all things became as new ?
   Should suicide preclude an otherwise saved person from entering Heaven ? Certainly not !  Turn with me to.. 1 John 1:7  
  .."But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from ALL sin".
  Note: the Scripture didn't say past sins only, and it didn't say only PART of our sin..it said ALL SIN.
  Where a body ends up neither pollutes nor makes that place holy. How many sailors ..believers and unbelievers have gone down on ships together..their bodies never recovered..nearly 3,000 of all beliefs or no beliefs... at ground zero in NY City.
  You can take comfort that although man can't do it.. when the final trump is blown, and resurrection day for us breaks fair ..Almighty God can reassemble believer's bodies..

[billy_56081]

THanks for clearing that up pastorp and IG. It was just a question that I had wondered about. I had had a girlfeiend in the past whose father had killed himself and she had stated that they had a hard time finding a church to bury him. I do know the afore mentioned former deputy of my brothers had a mass in the Cathilic church and was buried in the Catholic cemetary.

[DalesCarpentry]

The guy I work with went into a local flower shop today to buy some flowers and send them to the funural. He said this is a small shop and was surprised when he walked in the door that it was full of people. Then he turned around and john (my friend I work with) was there. It turns out all those people were Johns family. He got to meet the whole family and said the mother and father not to mention everyone else were crying and upset. He said he gave John a hug and told him he would come back later to order flowers. He said he really felt akward and felt it best for them to be alone ordering theirs alone without him standing around waiting to order. I just feel so bad for John and his family. Dale