pointed vs. round

[SHOOTALL]

Over the last couple years i have read articles where round nose vs. spire point bullets were tested as to difference in impact elevation . It seems that many think the spire point would shoot much flater than round nose bullets . What the articles show thru. actual test is the difference is mose often than not is very little .
 One test used 150 hornady bullets . They were shot at 300 yards if i remember and the round nose bullet hit (on average) and inch and three quaters lower . In another test different bullets were uase (all same weight) and in at least one case thr round nose bullet shot flater .
 Some of the test seemed well controled and others admited it was just an informal test .
 Over the years i have shot both and really don't remember any big spreads .
 Is there any real advantage to using one over the other as far as bullet drop if shots are with in say 300 yards .

[skb2706]

Over the last couple years i have read articles where round nose vs. spire point bullets were tested as to difference in impact elevation . It seems that many think the spire point would shoot much flater than round nose bullets . What the articles show thru. actual test is the difference is mose often than not is very little .
 One test used 150 hornady bullets . They were shot at 300 yards if i remember and the round nose bullet hit (on average) and inch and three quaters lower . In another test different bullets were uase (all same weight) and in at least one case thr round nose bullet shot flater .
 Some of the test seemed well controled and others admited it was just an informal test .
 Over the years i have shot both and really don't remember any big spreads .
 Is there any real advantage to using one over the other as far as bullet drop if shots are with in say 300 yards .

Test or no test its a proven fact that ballistic coiffiecient exists. Given accurate data its very predictable out to well beyond 1000 yds. The words "very little" mean different things to different people. Personally I see no really good reason to shoot RN bullets other than they can be a little cheaper. Regardless if I'm shooting 30 yds or 1030 yds.

Also if you take two 150 gr. bullets of the same diameter, one SP and one RN, start them at the same speed over any measureable distance the SP will always shoot flatter based on its BC.

[SHOOTALL]

That was true but with the Hornady bullets both of same weight and everything else equal the difference at 300 yards was 1.5 inches . That ain't that much BC superoity or not.
 I bring this up because of all the talk about bullets passing thru at close range with out stopping critters . Now i admit bullet placement is 99.9% of the reason in most cases but the round nose bullet may pass more energy into the critter than the pointed one.
 That is one effect that seems to be passed over. just how high end bullets  work when they hit a critter vs. how flat point or round bullets work . I hunt mostly where shots are 100 yards or less at mostly running/moving deer  If i can shoot a bullet that puts a critter down quicker and the trade is 1.5 inch extra drop at 300 yards what have i really lost ?

[Steve P]

The average "Joe" will not notice a difference in most guns shot at realistic hunting distances.  1.5" at 300 yards isn't much.  Most noticable will be impact difference between the two bullets.  Round nose has larger meplat surface and impacts a larger area initially.  Try hitting new sharpened pencil into a styrofoam block.  Then try hitting new unsharpened pencil into styrofoam block.  The surface area of that initial impact point is going to make a difference on how energy is transmitted to the object hit. Different objects = different energy displacement.

Steve

[cwlongshot]

 Round Noses are designed for faster expansion at distances under 300 yards.

Spitzer's and spire points bullet are more streamlined, designed to retain higher velocities and energies over longer distances.

Bottom line is when fired in a modern caliber, one capable of producing at least 2800fps, you will see little difference between the use of pointed or round nosed bullets with in 300 yards.

CW

[Graybeard]

I've been telling ya'll for many years that round nose, flat nose or spire point that inside 250 yards it makes almost no difference at all in trajectory and even at 300 yards the difference is at most minor.

If you're shooting beyond 300 yards well (ya KNOW I just gotta say it don't ya?) learn to hunt and do your target practice on paper. But seriously only if your shots will be at or greater than 300 yards does the BC of the bullet really come into play in a serious way.

[Badnews Bob]

I prefer round nose in most of my rifles because I don't care what it dose after 300 yards but like how they perform on game inside of that range. Most of my hunting is done inside of 150 yards, If I knew I was going to take a shot past 300 I would prolly load a premium pointy bullet. Other wise those cheaper round nose work great on whitetails.  All the pistol cal rifles and the .45-70 get flat nosed bullets usally hardcast.

[Sweetwater]

Once again, ballistics calculated on paper do not show up on target. Why?

On paper, there is no movement of rifle under fire. There is no effect of recoil. How "you" control recoil has a great effect on POI; and has zero value in the paper equation.

We have been educated that using bullets of high B.C. was imperative to proper bullet performance. Not so. See GB, CW and others above +1

Regards,
Sweetwater

[SHOOTALL]

Thanks !

[Black Eagle]

Shootall, I've been hunting and handloading for rifles for 46 years and I have gone to RN bullets for most deer and elk hunting. My experience has led me to believe that the Fackler study done for the Army is correct and wound channel, more than kinetic energy, delivers quick kills. On thin skinned game, like deer and elk that I invariably take at 250 yards or less, the RNs and FPs seem to give me more instant drops on critters than even some of the premium grade spitzers like Partitions and A-Frames. I still use Partitions and A-Frames on certain animals -- bighorns and antelope -- where the shots may be longer than that.

[SHOOTALL]

I have hand loaded for only 34 years or so and always used pointed bullets in rifles where i could . Well i have hunted alot with a 7X30 waters and some with a 30-30 and 307 all in tube magazines . Well the flat point or round HP in those guns stopped deer faster than the pointed ones in my 3006 and 300 WM unless they were shot at a good distance ( which very few were ) . So i guess i will start loading a more blunt bullets now days

[Doug B.]

This discussion has centered generally around point of impact. But what happens with different shaped projectiles at different speeds? I want to drop my game fast yet I don't want to blow them up and waste a lot of meat. It is impossible to find a perfect bullet in combination with caliber/velocity that "does it all". Being that the majority of my current deer hunting rounds are traveling around 2600 FPS in my .300 Savage, I prefer the spire points. If I choose to carry my 30-30 (about 2250 FPS), I like the round nosed projectiles. (all I'm supposed to load in the tubular mag anyway) Where we hunt, 75 yards would perhaps be a "long shot" for either caliber. I'm STILL throwing the dice in regards to RN vs. pointed in regards to bullet "performance".

[SHOOTALL]

That's a good point .

[Reverend Recoil]

In many rifles pointed bullets feed smoother from the magazine to the chamber.

[carbineman]

I have used what is the most accurate. In most cases all three of my whitetail rifles prefer Barnes X. The whitetails on the other hand have never expressed a preference. 

[ironglow]

I tend to select my bullet more by what I want it to do, whereas slight elevation differences can easily be adjusted for.

[BBF]

. Being that the majority of my current deer hunting rounds are traveling around 2600 FPS in my .300 Savage, I prefer the spire points.................. Where we hunt, 75 yards would perhaps be a "long shot" for either caliber.

Within that distance+ a RN is perfect. The 2600 fps would be high for a bullet designed specifically for the 30-30. Your RN 150 gr, Sierra, Hornady or Speer would handle the higher V's with ease.

I have changed to RN's for most of my loads.

[john keyes]

I have shot some amazing groups with big fat round or flat nose bullets, ie 45/70 and 444 Marlin.

I've been taking a hard look at using round nose bullets in rifles that people mostly use pointed spitzers in.  I think the performance on game is better at a couple of football fields or less and I think the bullets are more stable in flight.  notice I said "think"   

plus they look cool.  I just got a 280 and some big roundnose (probably designed for the 7x57) in 175 gr or so would be quite formidable. 

I imagine some would wonder what is the point of sacrificing velocity and BC etc when you can have the pointies but oh  well, we reload and why not try some different stuff and see how it works out.

[LaOtto222]

Bullet #1 .308 150 grain Hornady Round Nose; BC = .186
Bullet #2 .308 150 grain Hornady SST or Interbond; BC= .415

Bullet #1 traveling MV 2800fps 100 yd zero = -19.8 @ 300 yds; 200 yd zero = -12.3" at 300 yds
Bullet #2 traveling MV 2800 fps 100 yd zero = -13.6 @ 300 yds; 200 yd zero = -8.0" at 300 yds

Bullet #1 @ 2800 fps - wind drift at 300 yards w/10 mph crosswind - 15"
Bullet #2 @ 2800 fps - wind drift at 300 yards w/10 mph crosswind - 5.6"

Shoot what you will, but if I am shooting at 300 yards or more, I am shooting as high a BC bullet as I can. Under 200 yards it don't matter that much. Wind drift bothers me more than estimating the drop. As you can see the wind drift can cause more of an accuracy problem than bullet drop. Believe me, estimating wind drift is very difficult - so the less you have to worry about the better. Wind never cooperates, with me anyway. first it is blowing left to right, then it is quartering away at slightly less speed, well you get the idea. Generally you get one shot at your prize and if you miss, your chances of getting a quality second shot is nil, unless you are not very far away. Of course, if you are going to do all your shooting at under 200 yards, then, it really doesn't matter that much.

[Dee]

I got my first BB gun at 4. Wore that one out by the time I was 7, and at 10 got a single shot 22 Stevens, and was already shootin my Model 94 3030. When I was 19 or 20 I was reloadin ammo, and I tried every thing just about but the magnums in rifles. I always wound up back to that Model 94 3030. I have shot squirrels, hogs what ever with it, and have even seen a couple of folks shot with a 3030, and I carried mine on man hunts when I was younger and did some trackin, and in the patrol car.
My point here is, I used to read, and pour over all those ballistic charts, and could testify in court on much of it, and have on the training aspect, but I have never really found anything that shot or killed any better than a bulk bought Remington 150 grain RN 30 caliber bullet. I know you can get better groups out of match grade bullets, but I'm not talkin about paper punchers.
It's like when I here youngsters, or magazine readers say that a 3030 ain't much good past a 100 or 150 yards, and is too light for this or that game. I just smile and keep shootin my 3030 with those Remington 150 RN bullets, just like I have for almost 53 years.
If somebody is happy payin twice what I do for bullets or ammo, I'm ok with that. As long as I aint signing the checks.

[Mikey]

Shootall: You asked "Is there any real advantage to using one over the other as far as bullet drop if shots are with in say 300 yards?".  No.  HTH.   

[goodconcretecolor]

Partitions and A-frames are controled expansion bullets designed for deep penetration on large animals. Ballistic tips and SST's are better deer bullets due to their faster expansion, The last deer I took was with a 150gr SST in my 30-06 at 2900fps, range-25 yds. Bang-flop.
The plastic tips act as a wedge to help start expansion even faster than an exposed lead tip. Remington Bronze points have a soild reputation for fast expansion that is decades old. Bullet design has a far greater effect on expasion than simply the difference between a round nose vs. a pointed bullet.

[Sweetwater]

25 yards? A 38Spl would have been as effective!

Last elk I shot was with a 183gr FN cast bullet near 200 yards from a 32WSpl. Worked just like the pointy 200gr Nosler Partitions I shoot out of my 8mm Persian Carbine. Proof is in the freezer.

No more two dollar bullets for this country boy! On the other hand, I am always looking for another wheelweight!

[Dee]

Sweetwater, if worked then, it will work now. Way to go. Most everyone here that knows my writing on calibers, and bullets, knows my opinion on my 150 grain RN and my 3030. HOWEVER! Rifles and calibers, and bullet designs, are like driveing a car. Everyone THINKS their a better driver than EVERYONE ELSE. You just have to ignore the experts, and do what has always worked for you, and STOP WORRYING. No one really cares, or sees, that your using outdated epuipment that you love.

[Cheesehead]

I bought some discounted Hornady 180 grain Round nose bullets, just because they were so cheap. Loaded them into a 300 Wincester Magnum and wow, what a deer stopper. And I am a pointy bullet guy.

Cheese

[Sweetwater]

Another convert! Yay, Cheese!

Ya know, it's just a short step from round nose to "flinging wheelweights"!!

[Sweetwater]

Dee - guess I'm seeing that it's more the "I love" part than most of the rest. That I can do something that my great grandfather did - like squeeze the trigger on the same rifle! I Love That! If we can do something that we love, we are doing OK - regardless of the economy or who's in Washington.
Pay my taxes and pass the ammunition...

[Dee]

There ya go Sweetwater. My Winchester 3030 has been hangin with me for 53 years almost. We know each other.

[SHOOTALL]

Ya'll got togather when I was 2 !

[skb2706]

Bullet #1 .308 150 grain Hornady Round Nose; BC = .186
Bullet #2 .308 150 grain Hornady SST or Interbond; BC= .415

Bullet #1 traveling MV 2800fps 100 yd zero = -19.8 @ 300 yds; 200 yd zero = -12.3" at 300 yds
Bullet #2 traveling MV 2800 fps 100 yd zero = -13.6 @ 300 yds; 200 yd zero = -8.0" at 300 yds

Bullet #1 @ 2800 fps - wind drift at 300 yards w/10 mph crosswind - 15"
Bullet #2 @ 2800 fps - wind drift at 300 yards w/10 mph crosswind - 5.6"

Shoot what you will, but if I am shooting at 300 yards or more, I am shooting as high a BC bullet as I can. Under 200 yards it don't matter that much. Wind drift bothers me more than estimating the drop. As you can see the wind drift can cause more of an accuracy problem than bullet drop. Believe me, estimating wind drift is very difficult - so the less you have to worry about the better. Wind never cooperates, with me anyway. first it is blowing left to right, then it is quartering away at slightly less speed, well you get the idea. Generally you get one shot at your prize and if you miss, your chances of getting a quality second shot is nil, unless you are not very far away. Of course, if you are going to do all your shooting at under 200 yards, then, it really doesn't matter that much.

So much for the 1.5 " difference at 300 yds. On the open prairie where shots can easily exceed 300 yds. we use what shoots best farthest...round nose bullets don't cut it. I want the odds in my favor when I know for a fact that the shot could be excessively long.