I just had my muzzleloader barrel drilled and tapped, Not Happy

[sman]

The guy I took it to drilled and tapped the barrel,  when I got home I ran a patch down the barrel and discovered that two of the tapped holes went threw into the bore.  Is this barrel going to shoot OK.  I could feel some burrs catch the patch.  Anything I can use to smooth the burrs??   

[rio grande]

I would think the barrel is now scrap.
But now, how do you get the "gunsmith" to pay for it?

[jedman]

  sman,  Your barrel should be OK.  Run a snug fitting bronze bore brush past the area where the holes came thru a couple times and that should take care of the burrs.
As long as you have screws in the holes there should be no gas leakage when you fire it.
Make sure your mounting screws are not so long as to protrude into the bore and use some sealant such as loctite on the treads and you should be good to fire.    Jed

[Swampman]

Don't shoot it.

[trotterlg]

As odd as it seems I agree with Jedman.  I had a shotgun once that had base screws drilled into the chamber and it still shot fine.  I would not choose to do it on purpose, but if you put the longest screw in the holes that does not go into the bore and I think you will be just fine.  One round down the tube and all the burrs will be gone.  I don't know about the long term effects of not being able to totally clean out the corrosive stuff left in the inside of the hole in the bore however.  I would complain some and if it is pricey gun I would complain even louder.  Larry

[sman]

Hey Swampman, why do you say don't shoot it?  I am going to shoot sabots out of the gun.  Will the plastic sabot clean the burrs, or should I shoot some full size conicals first?

[trotterlg]

If you do the calculations you will see that there is only about 15 pounds of force on a .040 screw with 12,000psi inside the barrel.  The radius of the screw diameter (.040 divided by 2 = .020) Squared (.020X.020=.0004) Then times Pi (3.14x.0004=.001256) times the pressure (12,000X.001256=15.072 Pounds of force)

Larry

[Swampman]

Hey Swampman, why do you say don't shoot it?  I am going to shoot sabots out of the gun.  Will the plastic sabot clean the burrs, or should I shoot some full size conicals first?

There's a good chance the screws will blow out.  He ruined your barrel IMO.  He should replace it.

[DonT]

You may or may not be able to shoot it but my advice would be to go back the Smith immediately.  Show him what was done and ask him to replace the barrel.  Then find another gunsmith. 

In my humble opinion any gunsmith can make a mistake but to send the barrel out without even mentioning it is totally unacceptable and negligent.

DonT

[trotterlg]

The screws will not blow out.  There are a lot more vital things screwed into the barrel that see a lot more load besides scope mount screws, like the breach plug and cap nipple, and your eye is directly behind those and you never even think about it.  I agree, the Gunsmith should replace the barrel, but he probably can't afford to do it.  Larry

[skyhigh_seller]

Drill and tap costs what?  I am guessing $10-20 per hole.  I would at a minimum get a refund.

[Airsporter]

Is "The guy I took it to" a gunsmith?  Because it sounds like he basically ruined your barrel.

[Swampman]

The screws will not blow out.  There are a lot more vital things screwed into the barrel that see a lot more load besides scope mount screws, like the breach plug and cap nipple, and your eye is directly behind those and you never even think about it.  I agree, the Gunsmith should replace the barrel, but he probably can't afford to do it.  Larry

The breech plug & and nipple are designed to contain pressure.  Extra holes with tiny screws in them aren't.  They may very well blow out.

[trotterlg]

Swampman:  Did you complete 3rd grade math?  Larry

[Swampman]

I've worked in the Aerospace/Machinist industry for over 40 years.  The barrel is a tomato stake.

[Oldshooter]

There are a lot more vital things screwed into the barrel that see a lot more load besides scope mount screws, like the breach plug and cap nipple, and your eye is directly behind those

I'm no machinist, but the breach plug was the first thing that came to my mind when i read your OP. that being said that would really make me wanna break a foot off in somebodys behind! Please post how it turns out.

[mbopp]

I still have my old copy of gunsmithing by Dunlap. It's his opinion (and mine) that if the gunsmith screws up and drills into the bore then he owes you a new barrel.

[sman]

Is there different pressure on the nipple?   what keeps that from blowing out?

[Swampman]

It's designed to be there.

[sman]

Well, I had to try it.  I fired about 6 rounds yesterday, 60 grains of Goex FFF behind a 240grain conical.  The screws are still there, and I hit a 12 oz. can every shot at 45yds shooting squating down with my elbow on my knee.

[Swampman]

It's your life and health.  Think of your loved ones.  They may hold for awhile like a damascus barrel and all of a sudden they'll let go.  Also make sure if you sell it that you let the buyer know.

[gunnut69]

The screws will hold but you won't be able to clean the gun properly without removing them and cleaning each hole seperatly so In my opinion the barrel should be replaced. Shooting black powder will eat this gun alive rapidly and to drill such a hole is NOT good gunsmith practice.. Also we should all refrain from personal attachs please..thanks!! Jerry

[SHOOTALL]

I had an XP-100 that had both front sight mounting holes off to the side . Had a smith drill a new hole and the bit went thru. I shot several matches with it while i waited for a new gun he insisted on replacing mine with . The gun shot great but he said with time the holes would be a problem and he did not want a botched job on his reputation . He was first class !
 That was with smokeless powder , with black powder the problems could only be worst or happen faster .
I would say he needs to replace your bbl. unless he told you it was a chance the holes would go thru.

[Screwbolts]

It's designed to be there.

Yes Swampman!!! IMHO I can see how beneficial you are to the Aerospace industry,, our for fathers sat down on a stump and held there laptops across there legs and designs with the latest cad programs the nipple and breech plugs to stand the pressure  that the nut cracker told them in code only decipherable by them that it was a proper design. Now Mind you, these items were threaded into a barrel that was Hammer Forge welded together.  Yes it started as a piece of flat IRON that was hammered and reheated and hammered welded together around a rod. 

I can surely see how it was designed to be there.

Ken

Central NY

[SHOOTALL]

One - breech plugs are made with a different pitch thread than machine screws , two nipples have a hole in them and it releases prssure - but most replace them on a regulat basis . Sight screws are made softer  in most cases .
That said the smith has an obligation to do his job right .

[mannyrock]

  i can't recommend whether you should shoot it or not, but I can tell you that my wife had a .50 Hawkin, made by T/C, bought in 1980, which was her only BP rifle.  The smith did the same thing to her barrel.  She shrugged it off.

   She shot that gun for 25 years with absolutely no problems and no loss of accuracy, and killed many deer.  However, she never used more than 90 grains of FF BP, and she probably only fired 40 rounds a year through it.  She only used the lead Maxi-Ball, and never any sabots.

  Just some info.

Mannyrock

[Screwbolts]

One - breech plugs are made with a different pitch thread than machine screws , two nipples have a hole in them and it releases prssure - but most replace them on a regulat basis . Sight screws are made softer  in most cases .
That said the smith has an obligation to do his job right .

SHOOTALL:

IMHO, and known facts!!!  you are WRONG,  breech plugs today are most commonly 5/8x18 thread.  I have made several from grade 8 bolts for smokeless muzzle loaders.

Sight screw are some of the hardest screws know to be used , Rockwell scale 57 and higher! They are designed for high torque to hold sights and scope bases in place.  They are heat treated hi quality steel.  Good god man! the thimble clean out screw in most side locks is just a soft standard screw!!!!


The are many ported ML barels being used today,   just clean the holes as if it was ports.

CVA/ BPI breech plugs are some of the softest steel I have ever worked with. OH ya they are common 5/8x18 thread also!

Ken

[sman]

So, Screwbolts, are you telling me that your opinion is that I will never have a problem with these screws blowing out.  I shoot 60 gn. FFF Goex with a 260gn. saboted bullet.

Thanks, Steve

[Swampman]

It's really hard for me to imagine someone would suggest shooting this barrel.  Make a tomato stake out of it.

[Screwbolts]

IMHO : they can not be blown out from any load that is in the guns suggested loads range.  

 The holes may be a pain to keep clean, I would try to get the longest possible screw in the holes to minimize the cavity that can catch/fill with fowling.   Ideally the holes shouldn't be there, but that can't be changed.  if the base of the screw were just shy of flush it would be very easy to keep them clean.

Ken