Author Topic: Fur frindly bullet, will this fly? (Read 2192 times)

doninva · « **on:** January 15, 2010, 04:10:48 PM »

Getting a 243 handy barrel in a couple of days. How about a 69 grain V-max loaded to around min. for out to 200 yard shots without turning a coyote, fox, cat inside out

, assuming it will shot exceptable groups. Thanks, Don

mrbigtexan · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2010, 03:28:32 AM »

the v max is not a fur friendly bullet at all.

RB1235 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2010, 04:03:57 AM »

No offense intended but not much in a .243 is fur friendly. May try for a through and through with a deer bullet. I tried the v max in a .22-250 and .223. They are good for blowing things up. Not so much for fur.
Good Luck

Swift One · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2010, 10:41:55 AM »

When it somes to saving fur and shooting something bigger than a 22 caliber, go with big game bullets for slower controlled expansion.

highwayman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2010, 12:23:14 PM »

what about a hp?? little hole going in and no exit. my 223 loves them.

doninva · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:41:59 PM »

I was looking at it like the 204 which usually has an entrance hole but no exit. I guess a 243 will not do that with anything. Maybe as stated, a heavy constructed big game bullet, will just punch a hole. Thanks, Don

Silvertp · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2010, 07:50:18 AM »

Doninva

Im with RB1235 on this one...not much in .243 is going to be consistently fur friendly. You may get heavily constructed big game bullets at .243 velocity to shoot thru without a lot of exit damage but at least as often you'll get considerable fur damage.

Perhaps your idea of "loading them down" has the most merit and might be darned effective at minimizing fur damage if you are willing to learn your trajectory and to keep your shots within your high probability kill range.

Silvertp

doninva · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2010, 01:06:34 PM »

Thanks, I was thinking of loading down, as around here a 200 yard shot is long most of the time. I'm getting the itch to just buy a 22-250 or a 204 and be done with it. Don

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2010, 01:10:56 PM »

There is no 69 grain Hornady V-Max. There is a 65 grain V-Max. I shot a feral cat with that from my LW243 once. Let's just say the cat came "from together to apart" instantly. That's the worst carnage I've ever seen on a critter of that size. Some day I gotta see what my .257 Weatherby will do to such with a light weight bullet like that.

Even loaded down I think you're gonna find it tears pelts apart. Norma loads or at least used to load a solid in the .243 as I got a partial box of them long ago. That would be my advice to shoot for fur in the round. Barnes I believe makes such a solid.

doninva · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2010, 08:37:08 PM »

Thanks for the info. Don

Catfish · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2010, 08:02:09 AM »

Seen a coyote hit with one of the 58 gr. V max. from a .243. Hit the last rib back and ripped the belly open from one side to the other. Seemed like all of the insides were on the outside. But there were no holes in eather 1/2 of the coyotes hide.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2010, 10:58:11 AM »

I know one fur hunter up here that uses a 6mm PPC and the hornady 80gr FMJ for most of his fur hunting. Barnes makes a pointed FMJ solid that might also work. It helps if you shoot fox in the middle to avoid all the bones in the front and rear ends, hitting bone will result in a destroyed pelt. I shot a few coyotes with the 85gr Sierra gameking HPBT and several with the 100gr sierra gameking SBT. Both worked very well with reasonable sized exit holes.

Fox hides are very thin and not much is fur friendly with fox.

trotterlg · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2010, 04:22:23 PM »

If you are a pelt hunter there is no such thing as "reasonable sized exit holes". What you are soon to discover is that any bullet out of a .243 is just too heavy to stop inside a coyote or fox no matter how it is made, it just carries too much energy to stop in 6 inches. There is a real good reason that a Berger 25gr HP Match bullet out of a 17 Remington is generally considered the classic Coyote round. It is probably of no use telling you this, you will just need to blow up a dozen or so Coyotes and Foxes so that you decide this is true for your self. Larry

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18, 2010, 06:43:26 PM »

Has anyone tried the Varmint Grenades in 243? I know there are mixed reports on them in .224 but I have killed two Coyotes with them from 223 and could barely tell they were shot. One at 100yds and the other at 200yds. Maybe just lucky hits? I plan to try them in 243 and just wondered. Thanks!

doninva · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2010, 08:03:57 AM »

Gee Larry, lighten up. I respect your opinion, even if you don't mine. I am getting ready to go to the wish store now and order a .223. I had a 17 once long ago. It was a killer but the barrel fowled after about 20 shots. There must be some powder that takes care of that now. I was going for another 22-250 but a .223 will allow me to get about 50% more loads from a can of powder. I will have to research a good bullet for coyotes and foxes. Thanks, Don

Graybeard · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2010, 10:25:17 AM »

They've just learned how to make those tiny barrels better these days. My Remington Model Seven Predator .17 Fireball is one of the easiest to clean barrels I've owned and can be fired a whole buncha times before it needs to be cleaned. Just get a new gun in .17 and you'll not have the problems the older ones did.

Swift One · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2010, 10:35:01 AM »

Quote

There is a real good reason that a Berger 25gr HP Match bullet out of a 17 Remington is generally considered the classic Coyote round. It is probably of no use telling you this, you will just need to blow up a dozen or so Coyotes and Foxes so that you decide this is true for your self. Larry

I have followed some of your posts now Larry and have come to the conclusion that you fall in the "Only my way works" crowd. Get over your little beloved 17.

A 17 is a nice fur freindly caliber, but isn't for everybody. The 223, 220 swift, 22-250, 204, hec even some of the big game bullets in the 243 and 25-06 have putten holes in furs that have not seemed to pi$$ off our fur buyers alot. Granted, the last two have destroyed more fur than saved, lol.

I would place money down that if you hit a yote in the shoulder at 50yds with that 17, it would make a nice big splash and maybe even get a run off.

Bottom line is Doniva (at least from the majority in this forum) is that while the 243 is absolutley awesome at anchoring song dogs to the ground even at long distances, it is not going to be the best choice for consistent fur saving shots. That being said though, the 17 is not the ONLY caliber that is to be used as a fur saver.

trotterlg · « **Reply #17 on:** January 26, 2010, 05:41:05 PM »

Swift One: You are right, there are some .14's that are a little better than the 17's, but the 17's are about the optimum. Like every other hunting experience, bullet placement is everything, so bigger can make up for less accurate of placement at the expense of damage to the fur and animal. If you can't shoot then go with a 12 gauge with BB shot and you will be fine. Coyotes are little bitty animals, probably about 15 pounds, I think there are birds bigger than that. A .243 will put down an 800 pound Elk. My way is not the only way at all, but you need to show some class when doing any thing, and shooting a mouse with an elephant gun just doesn't get it for me, you clearly have a different view of this. Larry

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #18 on:** January 26, 2010, 06:20:17 PM »

I ain't seen no 15lb coyotes yet, maybe come Spring

I would love to show a lot of class and get me one of those Rem Predators in 17 FB. Would love to have a Predator in each caliber they make them in.

I once saw a mouse running around in my shrub bed and got my 10" Hornet Contender, not quite an elephant gun but a 35 gr V-max sure put a hurt on him. It took quite a while for him to stand still long enough for a shot but it SURE WAS FUN

Sourdough · « **Reply #19 on:** January 27, 2010, 05:45:26 AM »

Back to the original question. The .243 is not fur friendly itself. The only bullet that could be considered that would be the barnes solid. Small hole in and small hole out.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #20 on:** January 27, 2010, 12:43:06 PM »

Well I guess nobody has tried the 62gr Varmint Grenade in 243. When I get around to it I hope I can let you know. I would think if all you had was a 243 you could load it to about 2500fps and the VGs may work if accurate to 200yds. Otherwise if they are farther out use full power.

I think Don has moved on to the 223 anyways

He still may get to a 17

Last year a guy had a place he thought had fox and wanted me to go with him. He was going to use a 243 with 80 gr soft points. I didn't go. 243 is to much with any bullet for fox. J.M.O.

helotaxi · « **Reply #21 on:** February 07, 2010, 02:12:54 PM »

I've shot the .243 VG a lot, just not at animals. I can tell you that at over 350yds it will completely shred a gallon water bottle. As in thrown several feet in the air, flattened completely, little chewed up pieces of it all over the place, water spot about 8 feet across, shredded. I imagine that it will make the 'yote DRT but I can't imagine the pelt being other than a tattered mess.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #22 on:** February 08, 2010, 07:43:55 AM »

I think they are designed to do all that damage inside the yote if you hit it right.
I've hit a couple and there was no visable damage. 36gr .224 though.
Thanks for responding, I recently purchased a 243 barrel and will be getting some VGs to try. I believe the 17FB, 22Hornet, and 22mag would be better for Fox. Yotes are not worth much around here. I already have a nice hide and some have mange so if I blow some up it will just be a learning experience on bullet choice. I want them dead if I shoot at them so if they explode, that may be cool.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 08, 2010, 09:21:51 AM »

I have shot one coyote with a 36 grain varmint grenade at 15 yards with a 223. The bullet entered the chest broadside and only a few tiny bits exited the othe side. The chest was jello inside. Our bunch generally doesn't care about fur damage on coyotes so we shoot em with whatever. We did have a few guys that hung onto their 17 rems for a few years. But they had problems with bullets blowing up in heavy fur and only causing a superficial wound. They would knock the coyote down and then he would get up and run off. Some of these were finished off after that and we saw what was happening. The 17 rem is a great gun for fox on windless days but is worthless in the wind and pretty light for yotes. Go with a 204 on up on the song dogs and you will be much happier. The 243 is a bit overkill but it sure does smoke em nice.

trotterlg · « **Reply #24 on:** February 08, 2010, 06:47:43 PM »

There are clearly a lot of "experts" who have never held a 17 Remington let alone shot a Coyote with one. These things were designed perfectly for Coyotes, nothing better has come along yet no matter what the marketing people tell you. A .204 Ruger is close, but still is not quite right. Like any thing else, bullet selection is important, a 17 Remington with a 25gr HP Berger Match or a 30 gr Berger HP match (no longer made) will do the job without putting a hole in the hide that you can throw a cat through. Amazing the "arm chair experts" that the internet attracts. Larry

billy_56081 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 09, 2010, 01:48:24 AM »

Well I must have put my armchair in some really good spots on this particular weekend.

BTW, there is 16 in the back of the truck.

Two of the guys that hunt with us did try to use their 17 rems for awhile, but from EXPERIENCE they stopped using them.

bulletstuffer · « **Reply #26 on:** February 09, 2010, 07:09:02 AM »

That's almost as good as obuma calling the cop a racist when the cop was the one teaching race relations

Bulletstuffer

Swift One · « **Reply #27 on:** February 09, 2010, 11:58:13 AM »

As stated before, the only 15LB song dogs in these parts are the pups. We have G-Hogs that are heavier than that. No arm chairs at my calling stands, except for the chairs that sit over the gut piles.

mmpsteve · « **Reply #28 on:** February 09, 2010, 12:11:00 PM »

Doesn't Winchester make a 55 gr. ballistic tip in 243? I wonder how it'd do for fur friendly. Regards,
Steve

billy_56081 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 09, 2010, 12:20:27 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on February 09, 2010, 01:48:24 AM

Well I must have put my armchair in some really good spots on this particular weekend.

BTW, there is 16 in the back of the truck.

Two of the guys that hunt with us did try to use their 17 rems for awhile, but from EXPERIENCE they stopped using them.

And there wasn't a 15 pounder in the bunch, the pups are over 15 lbs. We have killed a few red fox right around the 15lb mark this winter. And yes I do weigh them on a certified scale.