Author Topic: The New American Worker..is Now... (Read 2046 times)

TM7 · « **on:** January 16, 2010, 09:20:44 AM »

...is now the disposible worker. For all you anti-union enthusiasts looks like you get what you hoped for.
The rudder has broken off the ship and the ship now has no course or stability. Workers are to be disposible and temporary and without a basis in a middle class concept. Welcome to the Brave New World and pray for your kids and grandkids.

The Disposable Worker
Pay is falling, benefits are vanishing, and no one's job is secure. How companies are making the era of the temp more than temporary .

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_03/b4163032935448.htm

fyi...TM7
.

TribReady · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2010, 09:25:25 AM »

Interesting article and concept.
I've seen it firsthand

mechanic · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2010, 12:38:47 PM »

You've just figured this out? We were having conversations 15 yrs. ago about what would happen with these "free trade" treaties, etc. Our mfg. base has gone to people who live in mud huts, now all we have to do is come down to their standard of living and we all will be equal........

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:01:22 PM »

So the answer is a union that tells an employer how many employees they must have and how much they are paid. Then the union gives the employee a quota and allows the employee to play cards or sleep on the job as long as the quota is reached while taking part of the workers pay.
Don't let a mechanic remove 3 wires from a bad motor! That is a job for an electrician, please sit and do nothing for the next hour while waiting on the electrician.

Come on guys

Dee · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:16:53 PM »

And that's what we will become. The government won't change, because it doesn't need to change, because we as Americans COLLECTIVELY, cannot change in our voting habits. We collectively, are responsible for everything that is happening.
We collectively have been brain washed into the two party system as the ONLY WAY. So hang on gents. It's not too much further to the bottom.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:19:50 PM »

as a former union organizer and union representative i can tell you this. the corporations started down the road in the early 1980's to destroy the union workforce. by such things a FREE TRADE and the shipping of all the manufacturing base overseas. takeovers for no other reason that to gain access to the pension funds. the list is endless.

on the other hand union leadership has been its own worst enemy. they took heed of what was happening and made a deliberate decision to work with the corporations (BEHIND THE SCENES AND UNDER THE TABLE) now they themselves are in the union business only for their personal gain and are in fact in bed with the corporations. if you only knew. now they look to the illegal immigrant as the key to salvation (KEEPING THEIR HIGH PAYING POSITION) as well as the globalization of the union workforce much to the detriment of their members.

they are as corrupt as the administration that they are in bed with.

plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:22:25 PM »

Dee:

i agree but i have a real strong feeling that the election in Mass. just might be the start of a new beginning where a third party just might and i say might have a real chance. the people are PO and they are mad at both parties.

mechanic · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:24:56 PM »

I found a nice stump the other day, sawed off flat and almost 4' across. I believe I will build my hut over the top of it. It will make a nice table and workbench to grind roots on.

Anyone have a usable formula to make your own TP? I'll really miss that.

nomosendero · « **Reply #8 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:32:15 PM »

"for all you anti-union enthusiast"

If you have assets/skills &or education that someone needs you can get a job in most cases.

But as far as this "disposable" trend goes, it is happening in areas that are traditionally Union & areas like where I live that have never had a discernable union force. If folks don't understand the many underlying reasons then we will see it trend even more that way as time goes on.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:51:30 PM »

is the bottum in sight dee.. no use bracing for impact is there.. jmo..slim
ps some will welcome slavery ,,as long as it means survival.

DDZ · « **Reply #10 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:58:02 PM »

Quote from: Hairtrigger on January 16, 2010, 01:01:22 PM

So the answer is a union that tells an employer how many employees they must have and how much they are paid. Then the union gives the employee a quota and allows the employee to play cards or sleep on the job as long as the quota is reached while taking part of the workers pay.
Don't let a mechanic remove 3 wires from a bad motor! That is a job for an electrician, please sit and do nothing for the next hour while waiting on the electrician.

Come on guys

......Or don't change that light bulb its the electricians job. Or don't open the door to the warehouse. Its the ware houseman's job, if you do you owe the ware houseman three hours pay at $26 an hour. These are not exaggerations I've seen it happen.
Lets just create more unions so people can hold companies hostage for more of everything, instead of making people become more productive.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 16, 2010, 02:21:26 PM »

Unions are to blame for the off shoreing of jobs than any dumb politician or poor trade policy. You cannot force US companies to operate at a higher product build cost then other companies in other countries on the planet and expect American products to compete. Off shoreing of jobs is/was going to happen anyway, Unions just create an environment that help make it happen faster or they become the final straw in the camels back.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #12 on:** January 16, 2010, 02:40:22 PM »

The government could easily get back the manufacturing jobs.

1) Give the companies a tax break for hiring full time workers.
2) Make everything the government buys be American made.
3) Pass a law like the car companies have. If a foreign company wants to sell in the US, at least 50% of the item must be made here. Make it the same in other industries (textiles, toys, electronics).
4) Instead of taxing companies for giving health care, give them tax breaks for giving it.
5) Get rid of corporate income tax and personal income tax. Have a national sales tax on everything. Corporations would pay tax on things they buy (raw materials, office supplies, energy), just like individuals on things they buy. Maybe food could be exempt because it is an absolute necessity.
6) Since IRS workers would not be necessary, put them on the borders to guard against illegals.

Jobs would come back, people would have health care. Government would take in more in taxes.

I guess this is too simple.

myronman3 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 16, 2010, 03:28:06 PM »

yup, if'n it isnt the neocon jew pawns, it is the damn unions.

say whatever you want, the everyone would have been enslaved by the corporations in the last century if not for the unions. and dont think i am a moron who hasnt seen corruption on both sides of it. some of you think it is all your way, or the highway. it must be nice living in that world; meanwhile, us realistic shlubs are stuck here in reality.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #14 on:** January 16, 2010, 03:32:04 PM »

Whats up with this poor union BS, They own GM now, and Chrysler, and they get a pass on taxes by obama care. If their industry fails now its on them cause they ARE management now. So maybe you bleeding hearts can spend a little time whining about the taxpayers who arent being subsidized by obama. Geez i never heard of such whining, want a little cheese with that? The "rudder is off"! No the captain is a socialist !

jobs are going to hell because the fearless leader is forcing the economy into the crapper, and it aint no accident! its a damned agenda ! Helloooooo is any body home?

??

myronman3 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 16, 2010, 04:24:41 PM »

case in point....

LONGTOM · « **Reply #16 on:** January 16, 2010, 05:22:06 PM »

The best one I can recall on a union is when they forced the railroads to keep and pay full salary, retirement and benefits for a fireman and a conductor until just a short few years ago to ride in a caboose with nothing to do all day because the trains no longer run on steam or have a fire box and a freight train doesn't need a conductor.
No matter.
The union made them keep them on anyway.
I'm sure there are more examples out there.
If I recall it was the union that told GM that even if they closed their doors, (not in bankruptcy) just shut down for a while, they still had to pay union wages to all it's workers for the next 4 years.
Any company that would agree to a contract with that kind of bull in it deserved to go under!
Stupid GM!!!
The unions sure do look after their own!

LONGTOM

Cabin4 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2010, 05:34:48 PM »

The teachers unions?

dukkillr · « **Reply #18 on:** January 16, 2010, 05:43:50 PM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on January 16, 2010, 05:34:48 PM

The teachers unions?

What is the single most destructive force in America, Alex.

rio grande · « **Reply #19 on:** January 16, 2010, 11:33:42 PM »

Quote from: Redtail1949 on January 16, 2010, 01:19:50 PM

as a former union organizer and union representative i can tell you this. the corporations started down the road in the early 1980's to destroy the union workforce. by such things a FREE TRADE and the shipping of all the manufacturing base overseas. takeovers for no other reason that to gain access to the pension funds. the list is endless.

on the other hand union leadership has been its own worst enemy. they took heed of what was happening and made a deliberate decision to work with the corporations (BEHIND THE SCENES AND UNDER THE TABLE) now they themselves are in the union business only for their personal gain and are in fact in bed with the corporations. if you only knew. now they look to the illegal immigrant as the key to salvation (KEEPING THEIR HIGH PAYING POSITION) as well as the globalization of the union workforce much to the detriment of their members.

they are as corrupt as the administration that they are in bed with.

plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

Info like this is what makes this kind of website so valuable.
Of course worker's need their associations, the owners sure have theirs! In my field (small/medium manufacturing) the various owners of the shops in my city talk to each other all the time.
The problem isn't workers unions of boss's unions, the problem is the corruption and greed on BOTH sides.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2010, 01:43:26 AM »

Believe half of what you see and nothing that you hear
98% of statistics are made up on the spot

That seems to apply to part of this thread
of course the number 98% I made up

Questor · « **Reply #21 on:** January 17, 2010, 02:10:23 AM »

So what else is new? My entire career has been conducted in an environment like that. I learned before I got my first "real" job that employees are disposable. But the flip side of that is that employers are disposable too. In my field there is NO loyalty to an employer or industry. There is loyalty to the field. That is for very practical reasons.

Furthermore, this quaint notion that manufacturing jobs in the US are somehow sacred is folly. First of all, the consumer does not pay for manufacturing, he pays for a finished product. Manufacturing is only a small component of the set of things that add value to a product until it is finished. For example, Nike markets very popular athletic shoes and good profits for those shoes go to Nike. Nike does not manufacture shoes, they find other companies to do that for them. Likewise with Apple iPods. Apple realizes an excellent profit on the sale of each iPod. This allows them to employ the engineers and marketing people that enable them to progress as a company. Nevermind that the iPods themselves are assembled in China largely from high tech components made in Japan. China and Japan don't get much profit from the iPods.

Buy American? Nonsense! The Nissans built in Kentucky and the Hondas built in Ohio contain more US manufactured components than the cars made by the "big 3".

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** January 17, 2010, 02:27:32 AM »

I've seen it first hand. I still hate unions and other forms of socialism.

Questor · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2010, 02:32:21 AM »

There's a lot of good reasons to get a job with a government union. My friend just retired as a teacher and she was one of the highest paid people I've ever known. Why? Because she didn't have to save a dime for retirement. Her entire $79,000 salary, minus taxes and union dues, was money she could keep. She's 57 years old. Her pension adjusts with inflation. Realistically she will live into her late 80s and that pension will be worth millions of dollars of income to her between now and then. I on the other hand need to save money for my retirement and I don't think I'll ever be able to match the kind of money she's worth.

DDZ · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2010, 03:00:32 AM »

Quote from: Questor on January 17, 2010, 02:10:23 AM

Buy American? Nonsense! The Nissans built in Kentucky and the Hondas built in Ohio contain more US manufactured components than the cars made by the "big 3".

Exactly, but there are many that are not able to comprehend this.

My biggest problem with unions is that they all support socialist politicians. I'm talking about today's labor unions, not the unions that were formed 60 years ago. Many talk and complain about America heading toward socialism, but they want to support an entity that tells its members to vote for people like Obama.

Case in point is when Obama campaigned he basically said that he wanted to eliminate the burning of coal. So what did the UMW union do? They went out in force and voted for Obama. Go Figure!

magooch · « **Reply #25 on:** January 17, 2010, 03:39:26 AM »

I can't speak for all unions, but I do know that the one I was in for nearly 40 years was no better, nor worse than the people who got voted in to run it. At times we had some very good leaders who tried to cooperate with management in ways that were beneficial to both sides. Occasionally we got a thug who was mostly interested in feathering his own nest. That type usually didn't last long. And other times we just got people who were more into politics and tried to use the union as a tool of the Dumbycrat Party. They were blinded by their ideology and had zero interest in the problems of business. They operated on the principle that the company was bad and was always out to screw the workers.

After a lifetime of observing the game from both sides, I am convinced that both sides of the issue have problems. There is nothing more valuable to business than good loyal employees and there is nothing more valuable to the employees than good smart management. However, even in the best of circumstances, the controlling factor is always competition. When the competition comes from places that have very minimal labor costs and their products are of decent quality--you're screwed.

Generally, that is where we are today as far as manufacturing is concerned. It didn't start with NAFTA, or any other trade agreement; it's just the way things are. The American people themselves could change it if they had the will to do so. Buy, made in America products whenever that is possible. Yeah, I'm a dreamer.

coldmold · « **Reply #26 on:** January 17, 2010, 03:42:10 AM »

You are right on there ddz. The unions all ralleyed around ole slick willy clintoon and got him elected. The first thing he did is get the NAFTA pushed and passed sending a whole bunch of union jobs to mexico.

Questor · « **Reply #27 on:** January 17, 2010, 04:06:20 AM »

Magooch:

You're amplifying my point. The important thing is that people looking for jobs in the US should be looking for something other than manufacturing unless they are the entrepeneurs with a specialty product to make that benefits from US manufacture. I simply can't understand what this fetish about manufacturing is about. It's been clear since before I was 10 years old that manufacturing in the US was on the way out for many things. It just shows the power of unions and the retardation of our laws and politics that we have not moved on from that concept. The 1960s were the end of manufacturing as a major influence on US labor.

Interestingly manufacturing and export is still a huge thing here in the US, it's just spread out and specialized so that the industries tend to be small.

Our laws and politics are so far behind the times that, for example, textile policy here favors US textile manufacturers. Well, there are practically no US textile manufacturers. But there is an enormous industry for clothing that uses textiles. If there are any laws at all related to textiles it should be related to favoring the marketing of the final products or easing the importation of the materials. As it is today, the laws are 50 years behind the times.

magooch · « **Reply #28 on:** January 17, 2010, 04:18:01 AM »

On the other hand, when your economy depends a lot on international trade, you've got to have something to sell.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 17, 2010, 04:48:33 AM »

The unions cut themselfs a midnight deal at the whitehouse. They don't have to pay tax on thier health care plan but the rest of labor does, including labor that makes a whole lot less. Unions are corrupt and they corrupt those around them.