Author Topic: Maybe someone can help me? (Read 1320 times)

sman · « **on:** January 16, 2010, 04:20:12 PM »

I took my 50 cal. muzzleloader barrel to a gunsmith to have it drilled and tapped for a scope base. It is a 21 inch carbine barrel. Well, he drilled into the bore of the barrel in two of the holes. To fix this he used longer base screws that would fill the entire hole with out protruding into the bore, and installed them using 2 ton Epoxie. Is this ok, or should I worry about the screws blowing out of the barrel?

222 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2010, 04:47:20 PM »

I would be asking him to replace the barrel and then find a new gunsmith totally unacceptable to drill into the bore. 1 it may rupture 2 it will hold fouling that will eat the barrel. Ray

2Barrel · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2010, 05:28:56 PM »

That is big time B.S. Have him replace tha barrel.

necchi · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2010, 07:44:19 PM »

Chances are that the plugged holes will take the pressure just fine.

But the holes in the bore will wreck the patch and/or ruin the symetry of the projectile and affect accuracy.

He owes you a barrel!
That's not a gunsmith,,that's just a guy with a drill press and not very good with it either!

If he keeps telling you it's good to shoot, tell him fine, hope he enjoys shooting it, Cause you want a GOOD Barrel, you brought in a barrel for a service, he failed to provide that service.

He owes you a barrel. If he doesn't make it right, tell everyone you know and as many as possible you don't know, just what kind of work this guy does! Drilling and taping holes is a basic required gunsmith task!

rzwieg · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2010, 03:03:58 AM »

Word.

The guy is a gun butcher.

Forestclimber · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2010, 09:23:36 AM »

There may be burrs where the drill came out the bottom of the barrel. That can't be good for a patch.

youthpastorjon · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2010, 10:21:04 AM »

He messed it up, he needs to replace it. I hope you won't give him anymore gunsmithing business either.

sman · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2010, 05:27:54 AM »

Well, I had to try it. I fired about 6 rounds yesterday, 60 grains of Goex FFF behind a 240grain conical. The screws are still there, and I hit a 12 oz. can every shot at 45yds shooting squating down with my elbow on my knee

mspaci · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2010, 06:00:56 AM »

I know this doesnt make it right & I agree he owes you a barrel. I have seen however a few guys do this & then fill the holes with a metal paste like product (cant remember the name), let it dry & then polish it smooth. Mike

simonkenton · « **Reply #9 on:** January 19, 2010, 09:21:35 AM »

Not to entirely change the subject...

Years ago my buddy and I were down in El Salvador, travelling around in my air cooled VW van.
The motor blew!
We were in this little village called La Libertad. There wasn't a real mechanic there. But there was a guy who said he was a mechanic, he would rebuild the engine.
Well, he had a captive audience.
He pulled the engine, and set about rebuilding it on a picnic table under a palm tree. He didn't have a shop.
At night he put a tarp over the engine parts.
The VW engine is held together with 16 giant bolts. Eight bolts come out of the engine block on each side, and hold the cylinders and heads on.
One of these bolts had pulled out of the engine block.

Well, in America you would get a machinist to drill and tap a larger hole, and then use a new bolt with oversized threads.
This guy had no such capacity.
When he was reassembling the engine, it was time to put the bolt in. He gathered up some aluminum shaving off the floor, like aluminum sawdust.
Then, he pulled out a package of K-Mart brand 5 minute epoxy.
He mixed up the aluminum shavings with the epoxy, and put that in the bunged up hole. He cleaned the threads on the bolt real well with gasoline. Then he screwed the bolt back in, didn't need a wrench, since there were no threads on the block anyway.
He had made some home made metal putty!
He had a big smile on his face, he thought I would be impressed, because he was using a real American product.

I was about to faint, I figured, I was going to die in El Salvador, never make it back to Georgia with that s*** rig engine.
But I didn't have much choice.

I did read the label, it said the epoxy was good up to 235 degrees. I knew the VW should not run hotter than 215, so, who knew, it may work.

In a few days I cranked the thing up. To my surprise it didn't blow up.
I made it all the way back to Georgia, and put 10,000 more miles on it before I sold it.

I guess 'ole Jose knew what he was doing after all.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #10 on:** January 19, 2010, 09:46:50 AM »

drilling holes all the way through the barrel and saying its safe to shoot is plain STUPID. Have the gunsmith replace the barrel for his screw up.

necchi · « **Reply #11 on:** January 19, 2010, 07:36:43 PM »

Yup, might as well take the 30-30 in an have a scope put on that too

coyotejoe · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2010, 06:22:37 AM »

Well I agree that the screws won't blow out, they have a much smaller area than the nipple base, but I also agree that he should replace the barrel, I certainly would.

cybin · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2010, 03:52:53 PM »

The guy who drilled through the barrel should have been drilling on a milling machine so that he would know how deep he was going--since he didn't---I bet that your screwed. He probably won't make it good--if he did --all he would probably do--if he was smart enough--was have the holes tig welded up--and then smooth out the bore--and redrill and tap. that's the bad news.

The so-so news is that his fix will probably work, and not cause you any trouble for years--if ever.
There are some epoxies out there that are amazing stuff these days, the holes are small--and the screw threads are really strong compared to their size. Since you shot it and the accuracy was ok--I'd try to get him to fix it--but if he doesn't do anything about it--and I doubt that he will--you can use it or trade it off.

cybin

necchi · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2010, 07:03:27 AM »

sman said;
" The screws are still there, and I hit a 12 oz. can every shot at 45yds"

then cybin said;
"Since you shot it and the accuracy was ok"

This is a scope mounted barrel,, that ain't extraordinary accurate for me in any sence of the word. Why have the scope if that's all it can do? I can hit pop cans off hand at 50yrds with iron sights all day long..And my eyes ain't what they used ta be

The smith owes him a new barrel! Glue or no glue, weld or no weld. Rifle barrels are not supposed to have holes in them.

sman · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2010, 11:29:32 AM »

The scope was not mounted on the gun, It has open sights, and I was almost shooting off hand (on one knee with elbow on other knee) I agree with all of you that he does owe me a new Barrel. A barrel is not available, and a replacement gun is almost impossible to find. The gunsmith feels terrible and wants to do everything possible to make it right. I asked a lot of muzzleloader gunsmiths, and they said that the screws will never blow out. I just need to take some extra care to keep the very small void, where the screws don't quite meet the bore, clean and well oiled. I think a carbine with open sights that can take a can every shot at 45 yds is pretty accurate. I believe that with the scope mounted and off a bench, the gun will perform quite well out to at least 100yds.

S.S. · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2010, 04:31:21 PM »

fouling in the bore side of the hole will be your biggest worry.
I shoot cap and ball revolvers without much worry and the nipple on those
are pointed right back at you. Never heard of one of those blowing out.
Don't think I would use that "gunsmith" again though.

cybin · « **Reply #17 on:** January 26, 2010, 05:16:16 PM »

Here is just an idea--may not be all that practical--how far from the back end of the barrel are the drilled holes?--could the barrel be shortened --say 4 or 5 inches? from the rear instead of from the front as what is usually done when a barrel is shortened? It would take a good smith/machinist--but??

Heck if you had as good smith/machinist this problem wouldn't have happened in the first place---and if you did know a good machinist--a replacement barrel would not be out of the question.

cybin

cybin · « **Reply #18 on:** January 26, 2010, 05:19:59 PM »

Heck--just reread your first post--a 21 inch barrel being shortened still more---not practical at all--I think that I would just shoot it and take extra care in the cleaning of it--and start looking for a good machinist in your area---make sure when you find one that he uses a milling machine instead of a drill press though. Someday then you might be able to change that barrel.

cybin

Bubber · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2010, 06:09:16 PM »

Is it safe? Probably.
Is it right? NO

If it were me that gunsmith would be buying me a new barrel the moment he told me what he did. If he refused, said barrel would be forcefully given back to him in such a manner that he looked like a corndog. Drilling 1 hole completly through into the bore is unacceptable. But 2 of them, that man should never be allowed to touch another firearm with tools again.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2010, 09:19:46 AM »

Pressure dynamics from within on that small of a dia. with threads that at least equal 1.5 times the screw dia. wont blow out. That takes care of the 'safety' issue. A lot of guys with drilled/tapped bolt guns dont know the (?)smith drilled all the way through either, but that is not the problem. The heart of a rifle is the barrel. You say a replacement barrel is 'hard to get' for this rifle, but someday one may turn up. He owes you the cost of the replacement now, in some fashion, but I wouldnt take gun work in trade.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2010, 10:09:55 AM »

I don't get it. Man comes to us and asks for help and when it is given, he doesn't use it. Why bother us and waste our time in the first place.

Sorry to seem like I got a burr up my butt, but it just don't make any sense!!! Say you ain't a democrat by any chance are ya? Just jokin', just jokin'.