Author Topic: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.  (Read 4509 times)

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Offline Jasta2

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I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« on: January 17, 2010, 06:40:46 AM »
First off, I've been on this forum before. My email has changed and could not figure out/remember my old user name/password. So I regestured agin. My 'Battery" now made up from one old CVA 'Old Ironsides", and two Tradition's .69 cal Navan cannons. My 'find' is what I feel is a old CVA Field Cannon. Details are, 14" stainless barrel(rifled)stamped 'Spain'. 12: dia. wheels and a cal. of about 5/8th ". My .69 cal balls are a tad large for it. The cannon had never been vented. I vented it and a test fire( wads only) at 30 gr of FF went very well, so a load of 60 gr waded was next. Wonderful!! The seller ( a consignment shop) told me it was a non fireable 'Franklin Mint' model from a few years back. True, it was not vented, but maybe CVA sold them that way. My old CVA 'Old Ironsides' kit came vented. The field cannon's condition was very good, barrel almost like new, light corrosion on the metal boxes mounted each side the barrel and the original leather straps are very dried out. Am I correct about this field cannon? What would be the proper ball size and load? I will try to up load a picture of it next to my CVA 'Old Ironsides' and a photo of my working shipboard display built from one of m two .69 cal naval cannons. Thanks for all info.
Bill in New Hampshire
PS what made me even more happ about my field cannon was it's price! I got it for only $207!! I think I have seen these on Ebay of around $400+

Offline Double D

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2010, 08:06:42 AM »
What a great looking display and display room.  Defintely Kewpie material if pictures are posted.  I can't attach Kewpie to direct uploads.

Don't know much about the Field gun, maybe one of the other fellows does.

I do like your bulkhead shooting decks, very nice.  The knees are definitely needed.  Are they just display or have you shot from them?
   

Offline little seacoast

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2010, 08:40:55 AM »
Nice cannons!  Has someone spiked one of the naval cannon?
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Offline Jasta2

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2010, 11:58:58 AM »
Hello, Yes I have fired all of them. The two on their displays do fire on their display. The smaller CVA Naval cannon needs a mount for sure. My first test fire shot it back 3 feet on a smooth surface. The larger .69 cal Naval display has a very heavy base and stays put when fired. It does recoil back in it's display as should, but I wish I could have found more scale pullies and rope. The field cannon did not looked to be spiked. There was no problem venting it.
Bill

Offline Jasta2

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Just another picture of my 'Man's room'. When we built a log home a few years back ( no more kids) I wanted a room for just my stuff, the rest of the house is the wife's! As you see from the picture, I like 'ships-of-the-line' and have three models of the H.M.S.Victory. The one pictured is the midsize model, but the best detailed. Nice having a room that the wife is 'off-limits', in truth, she did find me the carpet with the stars.
Bill

Offline Jasta2

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2010, 12:14:57 PM »
Double D,
How could I send you a photo directly?
Tks,Bill

Offline Zulu

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2010, 12:18:25 PM »
here is a site for minature stuff.
Cottage Industries-Store

Zulu

Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Offline Terry C.

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2010, 12:23:38 PM »
Re: The "spike" question...

It appears that there is something protruding from the vent of the cannon on the left in the photo of the naval guns.

Or is this an optical illusion? Something in the background?


Nice guns!

I, like several others here, cut my teeth on one of the CVA "Old Ironsides" kits.

Offline Jasta2

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2010, 02:43:23 PM »
I see what you meen. It is just something in the background. Good eyes you guys got. I never noticed it.
At one time I thought of building a complete brodside of CVA Naval Cannons getting them via Ebay, auctioning off at $100+ ea, I gave up the idead. FOR NOW!
Bill

Offline Forward Observer

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 11:07:35 AM »
I can give you a little bit of extra info on your field piece since I have two--one I built from a CVA kit and one that I bought pre-assembled that appears to be identical to yours.       I think I got my finished model on EBay for about $350, which I thought a bargain at the time.   If you only gave a little over $200 then you did get a steal.    These sell new in the $550 to $700 range by the few sources that carry them and it's very possible that some company like Franklin mint may have sold them at some time.     The kits for these models sold for around $150 to $175, but then that was a a lot more money in the 70's than now.


To the best of my knowledge the kits for these were only imported from Spain and marketed by CVA  (Connecticut Valley Arms) back in the mid 70's, which was during the heyday of the black powder revival.  It was marketed as the Napoleon III and the kit came in two sizes---a large model like yours, which was a 1/5 scale, and a smaller (probably 1/8th or 1/10th scale) version that was not as detailed and did not look as well proportioned.

Even though CVA  marketed these as models of US civil war pieces they are actually models of contemporary European (French) field pieces--Hence the name Napoleon III, who was a nephew of Bonaparte and had the distinction of being both the president of the second French republic and a dictator of the second French empire in the mid 19th century.     The ammunition boxes on the axles and the lunette assembly are also indicators of a European prototype rather than American.

CVA also marketed kits for a large 1/4 scale 12lb mountain howitzer and a smaller 1/8th or 1/10th version of the same.   I have one of the large kits still boxed up waiting to  be assembled.    It has a steel barrel with a .58 caliber rifled bore.  

Of course there were the Old ironsides cannons which were sold in both kit and finished form as were some of the other smaller cannons.  I have two of these also--one I built from a kit, and one I found at a flea market for less than $25.   Like you, I would not pay the $100 price tag that they bring on Ebay, but that seems to be the norm.  

Most of these models are are marked as made in Spain and sometimes will also have the name Dikar, which I assume is the name of the Spanish manufacturer. I have seen a couple of spellings of this name, but I suspect in some cases it only appeared to be different because of poor or worn stamp engraving.

When the black powder reproduction market slowed down, CVA dropped all of the cannon kits and  eventually the finished models also.  

However, both the large and small Napoleons continued to be imported and sold as a finished models by a few outlets that deal in black powder items such as Dixie Gunworks and Cannonmania.   They both still list these items for sale although they are sometimes out of stock.    

The large "finished" Napoleons III's differ from the old CVA kits in a few respects.    First of all the finished models do not come vented as you discovered.  Secondly, the metal parts have all been nickel plated to prevent rust.    Rust is a big issue with the old untreated steel used in the CVA kits, which is why one sees them all the time on EBay covered in rust and rust pits.   Thirdly, the barrels on the old kits have a breech plug that can be screwed out while the later finished models appear to be machined solid.   Lastly, the wheels on the finished models have a much deeper dish than the  ones that came on the kits and the metal to wood fit is much better .  

When I built my kit the tire rims on the wheels fit so poorly that there were large gaps between the wood and metal.   I solved this problem by removing the metal tires and then laminating an extra 1/16 inch of similar wood to the circumference of the rim of the wheel.   I  then heat fitted the original tires back on for an authentic tight fit.   The original assembly instructions for the CVA kits actually explained this poor fit away as replicating the crudity of manufacturing techniques of the period these pieces represented----which of course was a total load of bullocks since wheelwrights were generally experts at their craft and wheels for military use had to be made especially well to hold up to harsh conditions..  

Hope that helps a bit.

P.S.  I am making these observations on the differences between the kits and the finished models based on the two examples that I own.  However there may be other variations
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2010, 01:57:11 AM »
Details are, 14" stainless barrel(rifled)stamped 'Spain'. 12: dia. wheels and a cal. of about 5/8th ". My .69 cal balls are a tad large for it.

Welcome back, Jasta2. I also have one of these (CVA) Spanish made .69 caliber Napoleons, and I think you may be mistaken about the barrel being made of stainless steel. I'm also a little confused about your barrel being rifled; my barrel is a smoothbore, and I fire a patched .690 diameter ball. I didn't know that rifled .69 cal. Napoleons were manufactured by this Spanish outfit (Jukar/Dikar).
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline coehornboy

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2010, 06:54:03 PM »
I also have one, with a Japanese proof mark on the barrel, in .75 caliber!!


Offline Cannoneer

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2010, 07:22:52 AM »
Coehornboy,
That's a new one on me; I've seen these identical models on some auction sites where the seller claims that they're made in Italy, but I've never seen Japan claimed as the Country where it was manufactured. Exactly what is stamped ("proof marked") on the barrel, and did you ever mic the bore for size?
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline coehornboy

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Re: I Found me a Field Cannon! Request info on it.
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2010, 07:34:09 PM »
Boom J:  I stand corrected. :-[    It has one mark from Eibar, the spanish proof house.  The second one, that I was told was Japanese, looks like 3 intertwined rings...according to a spanish proof mark site, it stands for black powder smooth bore single shot....

The markings are as follows:  Top line:  RS 89799 cal 75
second line: (proof mark)  190  (three rings)  700kp/cm2  B2

Howwver, I miked the barrel, and it is .73.  However, I had the barrel recently plated at my friends shop with e-nickel, which starts out black and eventually turns a green/black color when exposed to U light.  barrel was plugged when plating except the first 1/4 inch of the muzzle.  Plating may be causing the slight difference.