Author Topic: Postal Shoot?  (Read 18371 times)

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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #90 on: January 29, 2010, 08:18:26 AM »
BoomJ, i haven't heard back yet on your device, until they respond, it's a no.

DD,
That's OK, I'm just going to make a sighting disc to use for the shoot.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Double D

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #91 on: January 30, 2010, 12:20:29 AM »

OK DD, that's great, I just wanted to double check on the bore sight rule. I'm not sure what I'm going to use, but it'll be .50, .69, or .75, and I've got to go back to the drawing board on the .50 caliber bore sight anyway, because the first model is no more; alas, I kind of forgot to remove it before the gun was fired the last time I went shooting, which was after Thanksgiving Day. :'(   There were three of us, and we all walked down the pistol range looking for it, but couldn't turn up a trace. R.I.P. :D





From John Visser, Cannon Master South African Miniature Cannon Club, Durban, KZN, South Africa

"hello Douglas,
 sorry for the delay - just had the durban black powder club  AGM.
 the sight is not permitted, the club rules say no sighting aids, but more important is that the cannon is  shot "in the spirit of the original", I do not think it would help anyway, how would one place it in the barrle in the same way every time, ie rotational.
John"

Offline Double D

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #92 on: January 30, 2010, 01:48:16 AM »
I'm going to add the "shoot in the spirit of the original" statement to the Postal shoot rules.

Breech ropes-training tackle and sabots definitely in the spirit of the originals.


Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2010, 08:51:10 AM »
Quote
"hello Douglas,
 sorry for the delay - just had the durban black powder club  AGM.
 the sight is not permitted, the club rules say no sighting aids, but more important is that the cannon is  shot "in the spirit of the original", I do not think it would help anyway, how would one place it in the barrle in the same way every time, ie rotational.John"

DD,
I agree with the SAMCC Cannon Master's statement; unless the breech ring was marked in some way, so it could be aligned with the front sight, I don't think the front sight alone would be of much use to aim the gun. The bore disc will be fine for the shoot.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #94 on: January 31, 2010, 08:57:52 AM »
Let me see if I've got this right -

The disk that is legal for use on the muzzle is smooth (no markings) and fits around the muzzle (not inside the bore) and may or may not be removed for firing.  Should/could be about the same diameter as the breech diameter.

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Offline Terry C.

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #95 on: January 31, 2010, 09:18:07 AM »
The inside-the-bore pilot would probably be the easiest to remove without disturbing the position of the aimed gun. It doesn't need to be tight. I can't envision a muzzled disc that fit over the outside being useable unless it snapped on, in which case it would be difficult to remove without disturbing the aim.

Unless it's a shoot-through attachment, and personally I think that would violate the "spirit of the original." The gun should not be sporting any extra accoutrements when fired.

All that said, I'll probably be going with a gun tube that would benefit little if any from a muzzle disc.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #96 on: January 31, 2010, 09:26:04 AM »
My  1/2" bore cannon is 19+" long (the tube) with 1-1/2" at the muzzle and 2-1/2" at the breech.  I think a disk would help. 
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #97 on: January 31, 2010, 09:39:45 AM »
Let me see if I've got this right -

The disk that is legal for use on the muzzle is smooth (no markings) and fits around the muzzle (not inside the bore) and may or may not be removed for firing.  Should/could be about the same diameter as the breech diameter.

Tim,
My understanding is that the disc can be attached to a rod (wood, metal, plastic) that fits in the bore.

Sight disk allowed with what ever marks you want to put on it.  Cross hairs, v's dots what ever.

As for the marks, Douglas said this in an earlier post, but I don't know if this is still allowed. I think John Visser from SA is correct in thinking these marks really aren't going to help anyway.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #98 on: January 31, 2010, 09:56:46 AM »
Let me see if I've got this right -
The disk that is legal for use on the muzzle is smooth (no markings) and fits around the muzzle (not inside the bore) and may or may not be removed for firing.  Should/could be about the same diameter as the breech diameter.
Tim,
My understanding is that the disc can be attached to a rod (wood, metal, plastic) that fits in the bore.

That's why I' m asking for a clarification (DD) - it's difficult to see from the edge view of disk in a small picture what it is.  I wasn't there, don't know what the 'spirit of the event' is/was.  Did not want to make an 'assumption'.

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Offline Zulu

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2010, 10:32:57 AM »
Everyone has to wear blindfolds ;)
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Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #100 on: January 31, 2010, 06:48:29 PM »
Since the smallest cannon I have has a bore size of 1 inch and I don't feel like buying something smaller at this time; I am going to sit this shoot out and watch from the sidelines. Might just have to make a sighting disc for the 1 inch. Looks like it's going to get interesting. Have fun gize!!!
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline Double D

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #101 on: January 31, 2010, 06:58:29 PM »
ex-49'er,

No lathe?

By the way, I always mean to ask, did you every play at Kizer Stadium?

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #102 on: January 31, 2010, 07:06:32 PM »
DD, no lathe.

Nope, never played at Kizer Stadium. Played football first 2 years in High School and then ran cross country and track. Been a elementary school janitor for almost 40 years.
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline Double D

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #103 on: January 31, 2010, 07:39:55 PM »
Ain't very many of us old enough to know Kizer!

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #104 on: January 31, 2010, 07:55:02 PM »
Isn't that where Dirty Harry found Scorpio with his .44 cannon?
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #105 on: February 01, 2010, 12:38:10 AM »
Since the smallest cannon I have has a bore size of 1 inch and I don't feel like buying something smaller at this time; I am going to sit this shoot out and watch from the sidelines. Might just have to make a sighting disc for the 1 inch. Looks like it's going to get interesting. Have fun gize!!!

How about a sub-caliber liner?   ;D   Your platform should be extra sturdy considering the smaller projo.
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #106 on: February 01, 2010, 06:55:42 AM »
Isn't that where Dirty Harry found Scorpio with his .44 cannon?

Kezar Stadium is the place where some scenes of "Dirty Harry" were filmed, including (IMO) the best scene of the movie, where Harry applies a new form of holistic healing technique to the bullet hole in scorpio's leg, (with the bottom of his shoe) and as the camera slowly pans out all you hear is the murderer's screams. Liberals hate that scene with a passion, which makes me like it even more.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Double D

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #107 on: February 01, 2010, 07:03:47 AM »
Aw yes, Dirty Harry Callahan...might as well talk about hand cannons. The response so far to the Postal shoot has been underwhelming. 

Guess I'll go make you guys sighting disk.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #108 on: February 01, 2010, 07:18:29 AM »
Man! You retired guys get impatient, give it some time Douglas, for pity's sake, the thing just started. :D ;)
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Double D

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #109 on: February 01, 2010, 09:17:50 AM »
You don't  seem to understand, when you are retired,you must always keep busy on projects.  No, no nothing to do with staying active for health purposes as you age.  Self defense.  My laptop dies yesterday and thought I would lay on the couch and watch DVd's.  Something I haven't done in a while....the wife comes in and sees me relaxing and says " I need your help"  4 hours later...I could have used a good a excuse like I was working on the postal. But she see's the mail coming in.

Okay enough whining.  Here's a muzzle disk.  This disk took about 10 minutes to make and an hour to photograph.  I made the whole thing with basic handtools.  



I found an old yellow plastic coffee can lid that looked good. You could use a piece card board, plywood, old piece of floor tile what ever. You also need a wooden dowel that fits the bore loosely.

Measure the diameter of the rear of the cannon.  



Scribe a circle on your disk material the same diameter as the rear of your cannon.  I used dividers instead of a compass as the scribe marked the plastic and the lead of the compass wouldn't.  



I used a magic marker to highlight scratched line and cut the circle out.



With circle cut out, I cut a piece of dowel off about an inch long.  I squared one end and rounded the other. I went looking for a thumb tack and only found a push pin, so  I had to make do.

I also added some cross hairs by cutting some strips from plastic tape.  



Push the pin ththrough the disk and into the center of the squared end of the dowel.   Insert the disk in the muzzle.



If you use the cross hairs here is how to align align  them.



To aim the cannon us the disk as The front muzzle swell and follow instructions in Aiming a Cannon without sights, South African style .  




Offline Terry C.

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #110 on: February 01, 2010, 10:12:36 AM »
Aw yes, Dirty Harry Callahan...might as well talk about hand cannons. The response so far to the Postal shoot has been underwhelming. 

Guess I'll go make you guys sighting disk.

I've been busy on the design and rummaging through the stock to make sure that there is at least a possibility that it could become a reality.

If things go as planned, this will be it...



It's a 1/6 scale 24-pounder Flank Howitzer Model 1844, bored to .50 caliber. It's gonna be a chunky little beast!

There's still some tweaking to do on the design, I still don't have a really good reference for the exact placement of the trunnions.

I'll get my entry into the mail ASAP.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #111 on: February 01, 2010, 10:39:47 AM »
Thanks for all this info. on sighting the gun, however you have skirted the issue of ball to bore size.  What is the official SAMCC  'straight skinny' on this all important accuracy fundamental?  Better than that what sizes of ball and bore diameter did you and other competitors use when you were competing in South Africa?

Thanks,    Mike
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Offline Double D

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #112 on: February 01, 2010, 12:26:30 PM »
Haven't skirted anything.  Doubt the guys in the club have a clue what size balls they are shooting beyond 45 , 50 and 54.  THe balls are furnished by the club cast in some old molds the club has had for years.

They have these in a  carry tray and after paying the entry fee, they go over and pick out 12 ball and 12 felt wads  if they use wads. The better shooters use patches.

Shoot your gun and find out what works best for you.


Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #113 on: February 01, 2010, 01:00:30 PM »
OK, let me see if I've got this right ...

Sighting disk is attached to a rod that goes inside the barrel.  (Can it fit around the muzzle swell?)

It may have marks on it for alignment/sighting - vertical and horizontal.

It should be approximately the same diameter as the breech.

DD - yes, no ?

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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #114 on: February 01, 2010, 01:03:14 PM »
Next question.

Are plastic sabots (as in muzzle loading store-bought variety) ok?

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Offline Double D

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #115 on: February 01, 2010, 01:54:47 PM »
Next question.

Are plastic sabots (as in muzzle loading store-bought variety) ok?



Asked and answered...is it in keeping of the spirit of the original?

No.

Offline Double D

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #116 on: February 02, 2010, 05:02:46 AM »
OK, let me see if I've got this right ...

Sighting disk is attached to a rod that goes inside the barrel.  (Can it fit around the muzzle swell?)

It may have marks on it for alignment/sighting - vertical and horizontal.

It should be approximately the same diameter as the breech.

DD - yes, no ?



I again apply "the spirit of the original" to this.  I don't think the muzzle disk is an original type device and surely couldn't be in the spirit of the original.  However!  However SAMCC  does allow the muzzle disk. So in keeping with the spirit of the original competition carried on by SAMCC and no sights but muzzle disk allowed.   Muzzle disk is allowed and device that attaches to the muzzle swell is not.

Although a purpose built cannon with an over an size muzzle swell is allowed.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #117 on: February 02, 2010, 12:44:07 PM »
I wasn't there, so the "spirit of the original' doesn't clarify anything to me; although it may be very clear to you.

You've answered some of my questions.  Thanks.
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Offline Double D

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #118 on: February 02, 2010, 01:25:31 PM »
Yeah, I wasn't there either and I am not sure what they mean some times.

In the spirit of the original what?  What original?  I think they mean in the spirit of the original guns....but where did the sight disk and oversize muzzle swell come from?
 
The South Africans get together to shoot their cannons and enjoy each others company.  They do keep score and do award the monthly trophies.  But you never feel they are competing.  There is no one seeking the competitive edge. No one is pushing the threshold. 

They come to the range, set up their guns and shoot there 12 rounds, and then they have a braai.  Very laid back and relaxed. At the end of the day, you realized you had a very enjoyable day, you shot your cannnon, you visted with friend had a nice meal, and the score didn't matter. It's a social outting not a competition.

So if you are wondering if you can use something think of the Spirit of the original this way, is it what they would have used with the original gun.  You are trying to replicate abd experience the old ways. Are you keeping the spirit of the original gun?


Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Postal Shoot?
« Reply #119 on: February 02, 2010, 01:59:14 PM »
Much like the ASSRA shoots here in Virginia.  If one is competing it is with him/herself.  Lots of help from folks that are masters.

Back to the questions.  This is a postal competition, is it not?

My interpretation of 'the spririt of the original' is doing it with what one has under the circumstances that are imposed by reality of  the day.  Hence, my muzzle disk will be made from steel or aluminum scraps with a vertical scribed mark and a horizontal mark as you have in your photo series.  The disk will be fastened to a rod that fits into the muzzle.

Or would that be going to far?
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