Postal Shoot?

[GGaskill]

You say they use the B17 target but it's hard to find.  What is a B17 target?  Why not use something easier to find?

OK, a B-17 target is the International 50 meter slow fire pistol target.  They are available from Alco Targets at $31.95 per hundred in the full size ones and $8.95 per hundred in the centers.

It would probably take 5-10 years to use a hundred.

[Cannoneer]

Sight disk allowed with what ever marks you want to put on it.  Cross hairs, v's dots what ever.  

Another thing the guys do is put an aiming dot on the target and shoot at that.



I write up something on how to use the aiming dot in the post on aiming a cannon

OK DD, that's great, I just wanted to double check on the bore sight rule. I'm not sure what I'm going to use, but it'll be .50, .69, or .75, and I've got to go back to the drawing board on the .50 caliber bore sight anyway, because the first model is no more; alas, I kind of forgot to remove it before the gun was fired the last time I went shooting, which was after Thanksgiving Day.    There were three of us, and we all walked down the pistol range looking for it, but couldn't turn up a trace. R.I.P.

[Double D]

It's a sight and I never saw anything like it in SA and sights were not allowed..  So its a no go, sorry John.

[Double D]

You say they use the B17 target but it's hard to find.  What is a B17 target?  Why not use something easier to find?

Because thats the target SAMCC uses.

Targets have been ordered.

[Double D]

 

John,

I am going to copy your pictures and send them to SA to the Cannon master and see what he says.  If he say okay, it will be good to go.

Douglas

[Cannoneer]

Thanks, Douglas. I've got to make a new one anyway, so I'll just wait to see what he says. The truth is that without a mark on the breech ring/breech face (I was using a thin strip of black masking tape) to align the front notch with, I don't think the front notch is really going to help all that much in sighting the gun.

Now, for another question: Is it our choice to fire from the bench (this is what I've been doing) if we want to, or will it be mandatory to build a platform, and fire from the ground? 

[BoomLover]

Good question, Boom J, I was going to ask that next! If the platform is to be used, do we follow the pics and build it low, or can it be raised a bit? BoomLover

[Double D]

Now, for another question: Is it our choice to fire from the bench (this is what I've been doing) if we want to, or will it be mandatory to build a platform, and fire from the ground?  

Your choice.

But I can tell you this. The folks at SAMCC started shooting from the ground. progressed to the bench and then moved to the platform.  They can shoot from the bench if they wish, but went to the low platforms because the guns shoot better.   Several of  the older members when they had problems getting on the ground, retired instead of shooting from the bench. They still show up every first Sunday of the month for the Braai and beer.

[Double D]

Thanks, Douglas. I've got to make a new one anyway, so I'll just wait to see what he says. The truth is that without a mark on the breech ring/breech face (I was using a thin strip of black masking tape) to align the front notch with, I don't think the front notch is really going to help all that much in sighting the gun.
 

I don't know how quick he will respond.  I sent it to the current Cannonmaster and the The Founder/ retired Cannonmaster.  We'll see what they.  They aren't as computer oriented as we are. 

FWIW, none of the good shooters use sighting discs, but they do use the target spot.  No sights and target spots.

[seacoastartillery]

     Double D,   We are leaning a lot here, having never done this type of shooting before.  Another benefit of this contest is that Mike and I have fired about 15 smoothbore cannon shots with a round ball in 25 years, so following the advice provided by you fellows and our own experimental firings should teach us a great deal more than we now know.

     I'm going out on a limb here, but is the diagram below a good visual explanation of how the target spot is used to bring the cannonball into the target center ring, (obviously Only for elevation), if your cannon does NOT have a, close to equal diameter, Base Ring and Muzzle Swell?  Also, would the target spot be on a 45 degree diagonal to allow for holding off on elevation AND windage?

     If you could use my diagram to explain, for elevation only, how I am correct or in error, I would appreciate it.

Thank you.

Tracy and Mike


The "Target Spot" use diagram.

[GGaskill]

One uses the same technique but looks along the side of the tube (3 o'clock position) instead of over the top (12 o'clock position.)

[Double D]

If I don't get busy an write something you guys are just going to baffle and confuse every one.  Watch the Aiming in post for a update.

[RocklockI]

I will use my hard won Dom 75  in .68 to compete .

gotts to find some .68 balls .

Gary

[Double D]

Aim spot instructions have been posted at Aiming a Cannon without sights, South African style

[Cannoneer]

Thanks, Douglas. I've got to make a new one anyway, so I'll just wait to see what he says. The truth is that without a mark on the breech ring/breech face (I was using a thin strip of black masking tape) to align the front notch with, I don't think the front notch is really going to help all that much in sighting the gun.
 

I don't know how quick he will respond.  I sent it to the current Cannonmaster and the The Founder/ retired Cannonmaster.  We'll see what they.  They aren't as computer oriented as we are. 

FWIW, none of the good shooters use sighting discs, but they do use the target spot.  No sights and target spots.

Douglas,
This post isn't meant to be argumentative, in fact it's the opposite. Even though I wasn't there in SA to witness the competitions I'm going to agree with you, but (and this is a big but) the reason I can agree with you without it being silly, is because I can view all the photos you posted of the different cannons used in the club shoots, and many of the guns have been purposely built with oversized muzzle swells, so those shooters don't need a bore disc in order to level their guns on target. As a matter of fact they have an added edge, because they don't have to risk changing the position of their guns (once the gun has been aimed) while removing the bore disc. After they have their guns leveled, all they need to do is use the white target spot to get the lateral placement of the shot on the target.

[Double D]

Douglas,
This post isn't meant to be argumentative, in fact it's the opposite. Even though I wasn't there in SA to witness the competitions I'm going to agree with you, but (and this is a big but) the reason I can agree with you without it being silly, is because I can view all the photos you posted of the different cannons used in the club shoots, and many of the guns have been purposely built with oversized muzzle swells, so those shooters don't need a bore disc in order to level their guns on target. As a matter of fact they have an added edge, because they don't have to risk changing the position of their guns (once the gun has been aimed) while removing the bore disc. After they have their guns leveled, all they need to do is use the white target spot to get the lateral placement of the shot on the target.

Yes that is mostly correct.  





But the Muzzle swell guys still use the Disk.  

I'll build a muzzle disk and post it up.  There nothing to say you can't use a disk and spot.  

I'll post here what I wrote in the sighting post. Be aware that if you are shooting a gun with a small muzzle swell or no swell at all your first group will be substantially off center. (high and right) So use a large clean target board to sight in.  Accordingly your aim dot will be a similar distance away from center. (low and left.) Don't worry about it.  When sighting in concentrate on the 6 o'clock of the bullseye.  Once you have your aim dot location.  Concentrate on your aim dot,  not the bullseye or shot group.

A sighting disk and an aim dot would be a good way to go.

The SAMCC folks are shooting every month and for them it is a competition.  The Club gun that I shoot had a small swell when built, but had been modified and a larger muzzle swell was added.

The whole idea of this postal shot is not to have a competition, but get folks out shooting the guns they have. It's one thing to make a littlle smoke and fire.  It's a lot more fun to be able to hit the target. The rudimentary sights of a sighting disk will make that possible with out modifing the gun.

If this works out, then maybe next year we can try something for slightly larger guns with sights.


 

[Double D]

Let me say this separate all by itself so everyone can see it.

To make things easier for you.  If your cannons muzzle swell is substantially smaller than your cascabel, make a sight disk! Especially if you have a Parrot or other cannon with no swell.

[GGaskill]

If your cannon's muzzle swell is substantially smaller than your cascabel, make a sight disk!

Details, details.  Since the cascable (or cascabel) is the knob on the back of the breech, what you really want to use is the breech ring or the breech itself if no breech ring.

[Double D]

Strange, I always thought the knob on the back of  the cannon was called he knob and the section from the major diameter at the back of the cannon to the end of the knob was the cascabel.

Looks like that is how Mueller describes it.

[GGaskill]

Quoting from pages 1-3 and 1-4 of Artillery for the Land Service of the United States 1849 - 1865 No. 12,

"The cascable is the part of the gun in rear of the base ring; it is composed generally of the following parts:  the knob, the neck, the fillet, and the base of the breech."

It then goes on with how to geometrically construct the curves of the knob and neck.  Following that is

"The base of the breech is a frustrum of a cone, or a spherical segment, in rear of the breech.

"The base ring is a projecting band of metal adjoining the base of the breech and connected to the body of the gun by a concave moulding.

"The breech is the mass of solid metal behind the bottom of the bore, extending to the base of the breech."

The example in the accompanying drawing is an M1841 style gun.

[Terry C.]

A'ight, all ya'll needs ta git yer jargon straight.

Hush all yer talk 'bout yer britches an yer cowbells, we's talkin' cannons here!

In yer teknickle terms, they's the "big end" an the "li'l end."

The big hole is in the li'l end, an the li'l hole is in the big end.

The ball what goes, goes in the li'l end, an the ball what stays, stays on the big end!

 

[Double D]

Thanks Terry for clearing that up!

[Double D]

Any more questions/

Just got word the targets were shipped.

[carronader]

Seacoast, forgive me for sticking my nose into Corporate affairs...........but don't you guys have a certain (owing to the weather ) under employed Bronze caster hanging around your shop.............drinking your coffee............scaring the customers..........who could be rummaging around in the offcuts / scrap bin digging out a 50 cal. tube.............and making a contribution to the defence of the honour and reputation of the Corporate Enterprise.     just a thought. 
  DD some (most ) of those carriages in your photos show a high level of quality in design and build.........are they self builds ?   or store bought   Impressive !
 And !   My pet subject.........in one photo ..........clearly shown...........the Beauty of a finely patinated Bronze barrel...........next to it............the horrendous """"""""""""""" BLING """"""""""""""""""" of a highly polished - totally ruined barrel................Brasso..........Marines...............Drinking...........For the use of. 

[RocklockI]

Underemployed ? Tom here is my .50  .
I think Tracy is rumaging around for barrel making steel .

[Double D]

Tom,

All self built, by club members.  But built by for the most part by three or four individuals.  Although there are a few individuuals made guns.

All the builders in the club except one are now dead. They make two kinds "ships guns"  and "wheeled guns" as they called them. Most of the the "ships guns" were turned from brass and made by the late Mike Pilgrim.

Mike also cast some "gun metal brass"  made to the same formula as "British brass guns".   Now if you knew  Mike Pilgrim, you knew that might mean anything.   Mike was a very colorful person with any number of stories about him.  He stole Lord Spencer pheasants and got away with  it.  Got questioned about the Great Rain Robbery, as one of the "usual suspects". Great stories with just a slim element of truth.
Here's is one of his "gun metal brass" guns.



And Mike shooting his stainless steel barreled Napolean.



The only surviving connon maker in the club is John Visser.  John makes mostly the "wheeled cannons" but makes the 'ships cannons" also. This is John's cannon.



This is one of John's "ship's gun".



The SAMCC cannon that Brooks now makes a copy of, came from Germany. 



This "wheeled cannon" in this picture was made for Colin Hamlinton from a piece of bronze "left over" from the construction of the South African Petroleum Refinery in Durban in 1963.   



While looking for pictures to share with you I found this of the firing line after the guns were shot.

[carronader]

Fine workmanship...................and what a heavy loss for any club........hope they have new blood coming through.

[Cannoneer]

I've been looking at the platforms that the SAMCC members built, and most appear to be pretty simple constructions, (that's the same direction I'm going in, maybe ¾-inch plywood) but some look like they have adjustable legs, which is also what I'm going to have to do, because the ground isn't level where I'll be setting up. Does anyone have any ideas on making some fairly sturdy adjustable legs?  

[carronader]

See Gary,    maybe his legs are adjustable................they are just above ground level as is.

[Zulu]

Boom J,
Adjustable legs?  The easiest way would be all-thread through each corner with nuts on each side of the plywood.  That was the first thought that came to mind.  It wouldn't look real good but would be very serviceable.  The all-thread would need a foot so it wouldn't sink into the ground.
If apperance matters, I would make 3/4" threaded wooden dowels and put them in each corner but that is a Zulu look.
Zulu