Very light loads in .357 carbine

[ssn585]

I did a search on light loads, case fillers, etc. with much good information to read. Now, I'll ask what the hive experience is with very light loads in .357 Mag carbines.

Specifically, I'm looking at very low velocity (~700 ft/sec or so) in a 16" Handi Rifle. The purpose is a quiet load for shooting on a rural property in Maine. Range would be 30-40 yards or less for ornery small critters and other "Rook Rifle" candidates. I understand the need for very good safe separation / backstop (ricochet being a big problem for a lumbering bullet).

The bullet is a Saeco #358 (158 gr flat nose, cast relatively soft) that works great with my Hand Ejectors and an H&R Top Break in light loaded .38 Spl and .38 S&W. I would like the bullet to have minimal jump, so I want to stick with the longer case or seat further out in a .38 Spl case; either way the ullage is the same. Since the H&R is a single shot carbine, (1) I don't need to worry about powder/filler being jostled, (2) it's easy to check the bore clear during load development (and also simple to drive out a stuck one!), and (3) if the load is best done with light or no crimp it's a non-issue.

My question to any of you who have done this is the whole gamut:
-- Powder/primer combos that have worked for you: I would like to use a faster-burning powder to have minimum gas expansion and hence lower muzzle blast, but that may be a dumb principle.
-- Filler/wad if you use them: I have made thin styrofoam "card wads" that worked fine in light .45 Colt loads, but I'm interested in other ideas
-- Lube for 16" barrel travel at low velocities: I have found that liquid Alox is pretty slippery, but there is far more knowledge of lead bullet lube experience out there than I'll ever read in a year of searches, so please chime in.

My thanks to all!

[LaOtto222]

I have a load - but with a different bullet. I use a 38 Special case, 148 grain Hornady HBWC with 2.6 grains of Bullseye. I get around 750 fps out of a 22" barrel. it is very quiet and about 50 yards is the most you are going to shoot it with out dropping like a rock. I am currently using 3.0 grains of Bullseye for about 900 fps. No leading and only slightly more noise because it is closer to point of aim for 357 Mag loadings. It works real good for small critters out to 50 yards, even wood chucks. Good Luck and Good Shooting

[Badnews Bob]

Tite group, bullseye, americian select, are some that I use 2.5 to 3.5 and 158s works well, I don't use fillers and there is no need for them. I also use .357 cases, also no need to use a .38 case unless ya just wanna. I do use a lite roll crimp. This is a fun load to shoot RN, SWC, or WCs all work about the same and are usally crazy accurate and no recoil.  125s work well also. I use these in my marlin carbine my handies and my revolvers. One powder I haven't tried yet but intend to this summer is trailboss, Just such loads is what is is made for, I want to try it with some 180 gr bullets I cast.

[krod47nw]

It sounds to me like Trail Boss would work great for what you want to do.

Kevin

[bobg]

 Anyone ever tried Red Dot? I always had a good suppy of that around. I found a load for the 148gr. wad cutters in the Lyman manual for Red dot and it shot very well in both my 38 and 357. Two of my friends were shooting 357's also. It shot very well in their guns too. A friend cast a bunch of 158 gr. round nose. I tried some of those too but don't remember the results. . My suggestion would be to get a Lyman manual and check it out.
              bobg

[Autorim]

Why not use a .22 rimfire?

[ssn585]

First, thanks to all. I will be playing with this as soon as I get the new barrel and get cut/crown done.

Autorim, I understand the question, and your logic is rational. My Anschutz M54 Sporter will put 10 Fiocchi .22 short solids under a dime at 30 feet, making it as accurate at this range with Shorts as it is with LR Match at 50 yards. (Shorts don't feed from the magazine, and you have to scrub the chamber after shooting a few hundred of them.) It will drop a rabbit or a feral cat stone cold dead at 20 long paces, and it's pretty quiet, too. I have also considered a suppressed precharged pneumatic air rifle. I shot a "silenced" Air Force rifle that would sling a 28gr Eun Jin .22 pellet at 900 ft/sec almost as quietly as a Hollywood villain's "assassin rifle". Honestly, on a noisy spring day with birds chirping and a breeze, you wouldn't hear it from next door in our suburban neighborhood. Cheaper than .22 and no ATF stamp: this might be the very best answer yet.

But I'm not looking for rational or "practical". Even owning the property I'll be shooting on is not logical; rather, it's all about pleasure and relaxation. After a fashion, the Rook Rifle was never really practical, either, as the gentlemen farmers in the UK also had access to the "point two-two" and some excellent piston air guns. It's a challenge to go make the small CF cartridge work across a wide range of use in a "cute" little rifle.