Author Topic: Theory: Triple Seven Sticks Breech Plugs? (Read 3230 times)

brownsfan · « **on:** November 01, 2003, 04:49:38 PM »

I have a Knight Disc Extreme and after shooting about a dozen shots at the range while using Triple Seven (100 grains loose powder) I can forget about the breech plug coming out.
I have tried to take the plug out at the range directly after my last shot, but its already "welded" in place by then.
I have loaded up the breech plug with a HEAVY coating of Knight Breech Plug grease or Gorilla Grease, but still I end up with the gun in a vise (while using a long handled 3/8'' torque wrench as leverage) praying that the plug will break loose.
This is getting real stressful.
Is anyone else having problems with stuck breech plugs using Triple Seven or are Knight Rifles prone to this?
Will I have to pack a heavy duty vise along on my next hunting trip?

rickyp · « **Reply #1 on:** November 01, 2003, 05:01:39 PM »

I have a knkight lk-93 and use normal choke tube lube on it and never had any real troubles. I also use the same choke tube lube on my 209x50 bull berry barrel. After about 20 shots both are alittle tight but nothing i can not break free with my normal tools. I am using pyrodex tho. you may whjat to try a nother anti seeze grease

Once i put the grease on i run the breach plug in and out several times to make sure it is good and spread out

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #2 on:** November 01, 2003, 05:12:14 PM »

Three questions!

Are you hand-tightening or wrench-tightening the plug when installing it?

What cleaner and/or oils are present on the internal threads when you install the greased breechplug?

How much time does the gun rest in-between shots?

contendernut · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2003, 06:25:46 AM »

I've got a disc elite and never had a problem with T7. I clean the threads of rifle and plug good and use the Knight grease with the plug finger tight. I've fired up to 30 shots using T7 with no problems loosening the plug with the allen wrench in the plug tool.

Underclocked · « **Reply #4 on:** November 02, 2003, 06:42:09 AM »

Try a single layer wrap of pink teflon on the breech plug threads, then add a touch of grease around the forward end of the threads. This has yet to fail me "completely". I have had to have assist from a vice a couple of times using this method, but generally not. Sure wish Hodgdon could find a solution to this "cement fouling" issue. Probably won't until sales slow. Maybe Quadruple8 will be perfect. :-)

brownsfan · « **Reply #5 on:** November 02, 2003, 11:59:02 AM »

The breech plug is defintely inserted only
finger tight. In fact, I checked it just before I started shooting.

I put as much Knight grease on the threads of the breech plug as possible, since I thought I might not have had enough grease on the threads during the previous seizure. I took a toothpick and smeared it heavily and evenly into each of the threads of the plug.

RemOil was the last thing used to swab the bore before insertion of the breech plug and the gun sat idle for only a couple of weeks.

At the range, I fired a total of a dozen shots over a two hour span....so that would be about ten minutes between shots.

After my ninth shot, I checked to see if I could still remove the plug with the Knight hand tool (the kind with a hole in the end and a phillips screwdriver for leverage) but it was already stuck... so I knew I was in for some stress.
The plug came out squeaking like a rusty lug nut after some major leverage provided by a 3/8" torque wrench and a bench vise. It looked like the breech plug threads were just dry and devoid of any grease.

My wife said that she doesn't like my mood when I have a stuck breech plug. Since her back surgery a month ago, she isn't much help on leverage either.

rollingb · « **Reply #6 on:** November 02, 2003, 12:31:33 PM »

I have absolutly NO reason to remove the "breech plug" in any of my muzzleloaders,.... and, I have no "problems" with'em at all.

What am I miss'n here?

rickyp · « **Reply #7 on:** November 02, 2003, 12:45:00 PM »

in this case it is an inline muzzle loader and to clean it right one MUST remove the breach plug.

with the side locks there is no real reason to remove them if you can remove them at all.

rollingb · « **Reply #8 on:** November 02, 2003, 12:57:05 PM »

hmmmmm!... "inlines", ehh?

I don't know nuthin 'bout'em,.... they sound kind'a "complicated" to me!!

Thanks Rickyp, for answer'n my question!!

rickyp · « **Reply #9 on:** November 02, 2003, 01:08:44 PM »

nope they ant comuclated tat all. just as much fun

rollingb · « **Reply #10 on:** November 02, 2003, 02:22:47 PM »

Rickyp,.... I think tha "inlines" are try'n to compete for a "niche", already filled by my Sharps, and Rem. rollingblock, BPCR's.

What do you think??

rickyp · « **Reply #11 on:** November 02, 2003, 03:00:33 PM »

I think the notch they are filling is that a lot more people want to take advantage of the special B.P. season and they dint care about the traditions

rollingb · « **Reply #12 on:** November 02, 2003, 03:49:21 PM »

Yore probably right!!

I'm sure glad tho, thet my guns are, "simple", and "hassle-free",.... so thet I can enjoy burn'n 20-25 lbs. of Goex blackpowder every year at various, "monthly blackpowder shoots", "rendezvous", "hunt'n big'n small game",.... and "lots of practice"!!

What do you shoot??

TOGO · « **Reply #13 on:** November 02, 2003, 04:05:43 PM »

Brownsfan,

Had the same problem with my NEF .50 cal Huntsman, just about broke a vice from a bench getting mine out. Finally solved the problem using " Copper Anti-Seize" got it from my local Napa auto parts store. After applying a heavy bead over the threads and hand tightening I was able to fire 20+ shots and remove the plug with only very minor resistance. Good Luck.

Triple Se7en · « **Reply #14 on:** November 02, 2003, 04:11:05 PM »

"RemOil was the last thing used to swab the bore before insertion of the breech plug and the gun sat idle for only a couple of weeks."

===============================================

Put the breechplug in b/4 you Rem-Oil the bore. There is a chance (32%.. lol) that Rem Oil/Teflon & Knight Grease combined are having a serious chemical meltdown when presented in stainless steel.

Just a hunch.... ok.. wild guess... alright the truth... I foresaw it in a strange dream two years ago..lol!!!

brownsfan · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2003, 03:08:08 PM »

I'm sticking to my original theory....

"Normal" breech plug grease can't take the increased heat that Triple Seven produces. In my Knight Rifle, it gets cooked away within 10 shots.

I'm going to switch to an anti-seize product for coating my breech plug. I will do a long-term test and report back.

doninva · « **Reply #16 on:** November 08, 2003, 11:09:55 PM »

I have also gone to the anti-seize. There are 3 grades that I know of. I use the one that is good for 2100 degree which seems to work the best for me. Don

crow_feather · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2003, 04:47:11 AM »

RICKYP

Quote

"I think the notch they are filling is that a lot more people want to take advantage of the special B.P. season and they dint care about the traditions"

I think the term "take advantage" is the problem. These seasons were legislated for those who chose to hunt with the disadvantages of the limited range of the muzzleloader. The "advantage" touted by the in-line companies - longer range, decreased chance of a misfire, - true or not - lets people think that they have an advantage over the more traditional type of rifle and in a way are beating the system.

We have to sit back though and chuckle because all we see on this chat line is how the breech won't unscrew, the $24.99 per pound powder gums things up, the 4720 buckbuster bullet keyholes, and backflash is lighting my beard on fire.

Ever wonder how Tammy Fae Baker got rich.

Crow-when will I learn to keep my fingers off the keyboard-feather

rollingb · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2003, 05:45:36 AM »

Crow Feather,.... I sure agree with ya!!

In fact,... Each time I shoot my traditional rifles WITHOUT,.... stuck breech-plug, back-flash, high-dollar powder, sabots, jacketed bullets, short sighting-radius, extra tools, plastic stock, fogged scope, and etc.,.... I figger I'm take'n advantage of, "NOT" have'n ANY of the inliner's (so-called) advantages!!!! :mrgreen:

J.Solo · « **Reply #19 on:** November 11, 2003, 02:06:01 AM »

I had the same problem this past weekend in my Rem. Stainless MLS. Not only was the breach plug stuck in place after 15 shots of a combination of 90, 100 &110 loose grains of 777 but I was distracted by some idiots at the range that kept pressuring me to stop zeroing my gun in for this coming hunting season so they could shoot a members 50BMG, and I loaded a Hornady Sabotted 240 grain XTP down the bore WITHOUT THE POWDER CHARGE!

Had to stop shooting for the day and go home and not only work on getting the sabotted bullet out of the bore but had to get the breach plug out first. I had to go to my automotive tool box and use a socket head with a short breaker bar to unseat the breach plug. Breach plug and barrel threads were clean, with a good coating of CVA Nipple & Breach Plug Grease before shooting. The breach plug was completely dry and coated with white powder when removed. I will try the anti-sieze grease before shooting any more 777. (I did not have this problem with loose American Pioneer Powder). - J.Solo

Stan M. · « **Reply #20 on:** November 11, 2003, 06:23:33 AM »

I have a Remington Model 700 blued 50 cal. and I shoot 120 gr. of 777. I use the Thompson Center thread grease. The rifle is wiped down with Breakfree, not getting it on the plug or threads. I screw the breech plug in finger tight as recommended by a gunsmith I know, and from what Rem. has told a buddy of mine. I haven't had any problems yet ,but the most I have shot in one setting is maybe six times.
I have gone to a gunsmith before with a friend's breech plug removal problem inherited by a second hand purchase. This was from neglect and the fact the flat head screwdriver type plug and tool was rounded off some. He got it out by removing the stock, inserting the barrel assy. in a vice and removing the scope. Can't remember if he used a penetrating lube or not. (think we did) He had to take a gas bottle tourch and heat up the reciever and the plug came out with know problem or damage to the rifle! It helps to have a removal tool that was in good shape. Make sure the rifle doesn't have a charge! I would reccomend someone with experience do this, you could mess up the finish of the rifle if not careful! Maybe the gunsmith forum could help.
As for 777 being the problem I don't know yet and I hope I don't find out the hard way. One friend I spoke with says it crytalizes his breech plug shut so that the flash hole is crusted solid and rock hard!
I don't know ,so far so good for me.
I sure do like being able to unscrew the plug and push my bullet and powder out when I'm through hunting. Time is important to me and this makes cleaning easy when I'm tired from a day of hunting.
Good Luck,
Stan

Mel Taylor · « **Reply #21 on:** November 13, 2003, 06:31:48 PM »

This has been a serious problem for those of us who shoot 777 in our Savage ML-10Â’s but there are a couple of solutions. For a nearly foolproof anti-seize procedure, go to <http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com> and click on Tech Info on the left side of the page. The page that comes up will have the information you need. The tape mentioned there is the pink, high pressure teflon tape sold by Home Depot. The nickle based anti-seize stick is available from Sports Care Products at 216 765-0256. This number is also listed in the Feedback section of the same site.

For freeing an already frozen breech plug and for an excellent all around powder solvent there is a product called Rusty Duck Black Off Black Powder Cleaning Solvent. It may be available locally or you can order it from Markesbery Muzzle Loaders. <http://www.hydra-tone.com/RustyduckFrame1Source1.htm> or <http://www.markesbery.com/default.htm>. Their Phone number is 859-342-5553. It comes in a 16 ounce bottle,Â the product number is RD750 and it will cost around 13 bucks a bottle in less than case lots if you have to order it (probably cheaper locally). BTW, this is NOT the same Rusty Duck product sold at Wal Mart in the spray can.

I used it to free the plugs on both my Savages after shooting 777 (15 rounds, each gun) when a vice and cheater had failed. I just poured a little down the barrels and let it soak. The first one loosened up after about 15 minutes, the second was loose when I checked it after four hours. Saw it work in about 20 minutes on two different Knights after all else had failed.

If you happen to talk to Rick Markesbery please tell him Mel Taylor recommended them. I don't know him personally but have dealt with him when ordering and he was most courteous and helpful.

Hope this helps.

Mel

Mel Taylor · « **Reply #22 on:** November 13, 2003, 06:33:51 PM »

This has been a serious problem for those of us who shoot 777 in our Savage ML-10Â’s but there are a couple of solutions. For a nearly foolproof anti-seize procedure, go to <http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com> and click on Tech Info on the left side of the page. The page that comes up will have the information you need. The tape mentioned there is the pink, high pressure teflon tape sold by Home Depot. The nickle based anti-seize stick is available from Sports Care Products at 216 765-0256. This number is also listed in the Feedback section of the same site.

For freeing an already frozen breech plug and for an excellent all around powder solvent there is a product called Rusty Duck Black Off Black Powder Cleaning Solvent. It may be available locally or you can order it from Markesbery Muzzle Loaders. <http://www.hydra-tone.com/RustyduckFrame1Source1.htm> or <http://www.markesbery.com/default.htm>. Their Phone number is 859-342-5553. It comes in a 16 ounce bottle,Â the product number is RD750 and it will cost around 13 bucks a bottle in less than case lots if you have to order it (probably cheaper locally). BTW, this is NOT the same Rusty Duck product sold at Wal Mart in the spray can.

I used it to free the plugs on both my Savages after shooting 777 (15 rounds, each gun) when a vice and cheater had failed. I just poured a little down the barrels and let it soak. The first one loosened up after about 15 minutes, the second was loose when I checked it after four hours. Saw it work in about 20 minutes on two different Knights after all else had failed.

If you happen to talk to Rick Markesbery please tell him Mel Taylor recommended them. I don't know him personally but have dealt with him when ordering and he was most courteous and helpful.

Hope this helps.

Mel

TCAS · « **Reply #23 on:** November 16, 2003, 02:10:09 AM »

Try hot water poured down the barrel or even boiling water. Worked for me.

Tom C

Super Rat · « **Reply #24 on:** November 16, 2003, 06:23:12 AM »

I've been shooting 777 in my Remington New Model Navy revolver, and the nipples come out free and easy. Seems like they would have a similar problem. I guess the threads and pressures involved are quite different.

Super Rat.

Mel Taylor · « **Reply #25 on:** November 17, 2003, 03:56:36 AM »

Super Rat,

I'm not sure what happens when T-7 decides to freeze something up. I had shot numerous charges of T-7 through my rifle with no trouble except the breech plug being a little harder to unscrew than with pyrodex or smokeless. Then WHAM! Breech plug stuck tighter thanÂ… well tighter than almost anything you can think of. *G* At the same time my buddy fired 6 or 7 loads of my T- 7 in his TC Hawken and had some difficulty removing the nipple for the first time in 20 years.