Author Topic: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE  (Read 10367 times)

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Offline teamnelson

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2010, 02:24:58 PM »
Two old guys got in a fight at a car wash in Apache Junction probably 20 years ago. One was washing his car at a self-wash/gas station and got the other's car wet. Other guy went in his glove box and grabbed a .25, shot the other guy in the stomach. Passed clean through laterally, hitting only fat (that's what the story read in the Mesa paper). The "victim" went over and punched the guy and took his gun away.

Took the 1897 Iver Johnson safety hammerless out Saturday. Didn't shoot it, but I've shot it before to know I can put all 5 in a pie plate inside 10 yds. If I wore a cumberbund, I think I might slip that behind it. One of my ancestors trusted it all over the southwest in the days before cars.

Personally, I don't know why we settled for concealed carry. What happened to open carry? I remember mom's taking the kids to the grocery store with a visibly holstered weapon on their belt.
held fast

Offline Dee

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2010, 02:26:06 PM »
For a while I carried a Freedom Arms 5 shot 22mag in a Case knife case on my gun belt. Looked just like a knife with the rose wood grips slightly showing. It was a last ditch pistol, which I considered a direct contact weapon. Never used it, and one day an easily impressed Detective saw it when I locked up my weapon"s" before going into the Jail area. He paid almost double, and I put the knife back in. It was more useful anyway.  
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Dee

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2010, 02:28:42 PM »
Two old guys got in a fight at a car wash in Apache Junction probably 20 years ago. One was washing his car at a self-wash/gas station and got the other's car wet. Other guy went in his glove box and grabbed a .25, shot the other guy in the stomach. Passed clean through laterally, hitting only fat (that's what the story read in the Mesa paper). The "victim" went over and punched the guy and took his gun away.

Took the 1897 Iver Johnson safety hammerless out Saturday. Didn't shoot it, but I've shot it before to know I can put all 5 in a pie plate inside 10 yds. If I wore a cumberbund, I think I might slip that behind it. One of my ancestors trusted it all over the southwest in the days before cars.

Personally, I don't know why we settled for concealed carry. What happened to open carry? I remember mom's taking the kids to the grocery store with a visibly holstered weapon on their belt.

I agree with open carry. It would be a hoot to see these anti 2nd amendment farmers faces where I live. Their not all that way but, quite a few are.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline trotterlg

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2010, 02:37:56 PM »
I am in Apache Junction, and in the Walmart here, could be in Mesa, the other day, there was a little old lady about 4 foot nine with a 45 Colt on her hip, no one paid any attention at all.  Open carry is alive and well some places in the lower 48.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline rybo

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2010, 02:53:02 PM »
Many times I just don't dress in a way that makes concealing a bigger gun that easy, so a little pocket gun is better than no gun.
Insert funny/sarcastic/philosophical/witty saying here.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2010, 02:55:40 PM »
Grew up in AZ ... heard it had gone to the californians. Glad to hear it hasn't all changed. Used to Pastor in Tombstone, and loved open carry there. Thought about preaching with a tie-down rig but figured that's a line not to cross. If someone tried there what that fella did in Denver, he'd a been shot in the foyer ... by at least two ushers and the piano player.
held fast

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2010, 03:33:15 PM »
Personally I do not think there is too small of a gun.  I think there are people that are too big to use some of these guns.  What works for you and you think is tiny may be large for a smaller person.
While I am not a large guy I am carrying an extra 40 pounds and my P230 that works well now, bites me a little as my fingers have grown into sausages. 
I had a casheer when I ran a boating store that had one of the NAA 22 mag revolvers.  Her husband had me take it home and clean it.  It was way too small for me to shoot or even pull it out of my pocket.  I made her go to the gun range with me one afternoon and she actually could shoot the tiny thing and pretty well getting it out of her purse.  I could not pick it up off of the counter and cock the thing let alone point it.
I have shot the tiny 25's and have one of the Walther TPH's in 22LR (picture a walther PPK now make it 2/3 s the size) that I really like and would carry it every day while out for walks in Coyote country.  It is was the smallest gun i could tuck in my pocket and be able to get it out if I needed it.  I have pulled it a couple times to get rid of a coyote or two that would attack the dogs.  I am almost too fat to shoot this little gun, my hand gets the walther rub from the slide but is almost starting to interfeer with the function.  My inside sales person is barly 5' and maybe 100 pounds soaking wet. my Det spl looks like an N frame in her hand and the TPH looks like me holding either my P230 or PP. There are also guns that are too big for some. My P226 was almost too big for her to hold and shoot, and in the hip holster it is wider than she is and I have a service tech that could carry a desert eagle as a pocket gun but the p230 is way too small for his hands.
Are you looking for something for your daughter?  I think a trip to the gun store to see what she likes, what fits, and what you are comfortable with her carrying.

Offline Dee

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2010, 03:41:52 PM »
Ya know what mcwoodduck? Come to think of it, I think that little 5 shot 22mag was a North American Arms instead of a Freedom Arms. It was a long time ago, and I'm gettin? I'm just old. :-[
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline teamnelson

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2010, 03:47:04 PM »
I'm with mcwoodduck, I can't safely handle or shoot some of the little guns. Trigger pull and grip angle and when it does fire I'm off target cause my hands are too big.
held fast

Offline drdougrx

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2010, 03:55:46 PM »
The very first handgun I bought was a Beretta Jetfire in 25acp...man...8 in the mag and 1 in the spout.  I could empty that thing in second or two (it seemed).  Went to a ppk/s and was and am really happy with it, but sometimes it gets on my nerves, so...one day, wife and I were waiting for the ferry in hyannis in cape cod for a weekend in nantucket and what do I spy from the drivers seat in the parking lot???  A gunshop!!!

Well...we had another 40 minutes till the ferry arrived and wifee was reading and I was bored...so...what's a feller to do??  I tippitoed over to that gunshop and had me look see.

What do I see in the case....a new, in the box, colt mustang pocket lite for $375 (it was the 90's).  so that become my deep cover, smaller than small gun.  The Jetfire???  Well...it's become a safequeen.
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2010, 12:09:50 AM »
When it comes time for her to decide, I will let her decide---but---even, if I buy it and she decides on something else after shooting it--I will let her decide.
I have sold things before.
I WILL give her my advice---now she has ignored me before-as I have ignored others--so I don't hold my breath.
She will find one she wants.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2010, 05:46:08 AM »
The very first handgun I bought was a Beretta Jetfire in 25acp...man...8 in the mag and 1 in the spout.  I could empty that thing in second or two (it seemed).  Went to a ppk/s and was and am really happy with it, but sometimes it gets on my nerves, so...one day, wife and I were waiting for the ferry in hyannis in cape cod for a weekend in nantucket and what do I spy from the drivers seat in the parking lot???  A gunshop!!!

Well...we had another 40 minutes till the ferry arrived and wifee was reading and I was bored...so...what's a feller to do??  I tippitoed over to that gunshop and had me look see.

What do I see in the case....a new, in the box, colt mustang pocket lite for $375 (it was the 90's).  so that become my deep cover, smaller than small gun.  The Jetfire???  Well...it's become a safequeen.
The new Sig 380 is that same size as the old Colt mustangs.
"Deep cover"  What are you Serpico?   ;D :D ;)
Only kidding I have my great grandfathers Spanish Copy of a S&W Model 10 and his safe as he was a dentist and had to have the safe and gun to protect the drugs in MD.  I understand especally these days why you would want to have a gun on you.

Offline drdougrx

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2010, 07:14:16 AM »
Hey Mc!

Yep...that's me!!!  DrDougSerpicoSopranoRx!!!

"Deep cover".... means to me, in a pocket without a holster. 
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Offline Dee

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2010, 07:16:30 AM »
Wouldn't that be DEEP POCKETS? Deep cover in a l.e. sense, means no id, or fake id, and usually no weapon at all, working with an alias. ???
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2010, 07:20:58 AM »
 :)
LOL

Offline williamlayton

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2010, 10:07:26 AM »
The original thought was about small guns and big calibers.
Trying to put a .45 caliber into a small, LW mouse gun.
Not small calibers in small guns.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2010, 10:48:03 AM »
OH in that case the small Glock single stack in 45 or the Sig P245 (I think it is now called the P220 compact but has a huge beaver tail on it that makes it bigger than it really is)
The P245 was a pleasure to shoot and was only slightly larger than my P230. 
I wanted to get one from my buddy that was the Sig rep and bought the P220 Sport instead figuring I could always get the 245 later.  If i come across one in a shop I will have to get it.  OH it also had a different spring in the gun and recoil was very mild.
He is now the H&K rep.  So they have the small .40 and 9X 19 in the 2000 models that are neat  One is a sub compact.  They have a cool short first shot trigger.
If you cycle the gun, and de cock it has a short trigger, if you then pull the trigger it has a typical DA trigger and the nlike all DA SA autos it has the single action.  At the last Shooting fair I had all the H&K pocket pistols on me (6) in pockets and was carrying all the USPs to the safe after the first day.  One of the Reps freaked out thinking I left the small guns in the booth un attended.  Was surprised as I started to pull them out of pockets and waist bands.
On to other guns.  I had a class mate that was a Navy Cheif in College in Norflok that liked the 1917 revolvers and had a few of them.  both colts and S&W's He showed me one he had the hammer bobbed, the barrel shortened to 2" and the frame contoured and the grip rounded.  It looked like a bloated Det Spl.  but he had it in a plastic pencil bag in a  three ring note book and have seen him stick it in his jeans front pocket.
I would like to see S&W make a 5 shot L frame 40/ 10mm, 41 mag, 44 Spl/ 44 Mag, 45 ACP, and 45 Colt gun with a 3, 4 or 4.5" barrel, rounded grip. Standard weight Barrel (not the heavy under lug of the 686) with Novak low profile tritium sights and Pachmyer round frame grips.  That is annodized to a charcoal grey or matte black.  They make a 5 shot Model 60 with a 5" barrel same concept shorter barrel for IDPA, CCW, or Hunting. 

Offline U S Male

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2010, 02:26:36 PM »
For awhile, I carried a NAA mini (5 rds LR) until I was accosted briefly by a potential perp. I had my hand in my pocket and was looking at the guy eye to eye and I think he decided to try some place else because I felt like he knew I was armed, but I felt very insecure with my beloved mini at that moment.   

 Not long after that I bought a Kel Tec 380 and now carry Double Tap 90 gn hp ammo (1000 fps) and even though I have much larger guns, this just happens to be the one I can put in my pocket holster and carry each day. I think it's the ammo that takes it out of the mouse gun class or for me it does anyway.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2010, 01:29:30 AM »
Caliber makes the difference in mouse guns for carry.
The smaller the weapon--for me--the smaller the caliber.
I don't want a .460 in a sacdium frame.
Hideing or carrying a concealed weapon has no meaning--even if in a 1911 Government.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline LCR

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2010, 02:05:39 PM »
LCR
Not to start an arguement but, what is deep cover and, in an urban setting, for our purposes, and why?  :)
Blessings

  Well, amigo, I carry ALL the time, in places and under cicumstances that society doesn't approve of, that's all. I can't walk into "Chuck-E-Cheese" for my daughters birthday party with a 5" colt 1911 strapped on my hip now can I? I can carry an NAA .32 in a speedo if I needed to. My .32 is in my pocket every Sunday morning at Church.
 God bless.
The field mouse is fast, but the owl sees at night.

Offline LCR

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2010, 02:17:55 PM »
William when I was a kid back in the early fifties and early sixties a lot of the old men still carried 25s, and 32s, and some carried the old long handled long skinny bladed knives. I later in life personally saw some folks shot with some of these anemic calibers and must admit, they appeared just as dead as the ones busted with a shotgun.
I for one carry a Model 60 all stainless Smith with 125 grain jacketed hollow points in 357 magnum, and I carry it every day. I think from my experience it is not wise to switch back and forth as each type of hand gun has it's own pointing characteristics and under stress muscle memory takes over PROVIDED your shooting technique has any ingrained memory. Switching back and forth RETARDS THIS MUSCLE MEMORY.
Do I shoot the Model 60 habitually with these loads? HELL NO! Your description of the experience possibly isn't strong enough but it is accurate. When I want to practice or just shoot, out come the light 38 special reloads. It doesn't change ANYTHING, it just makes it fun to shoot. Having used a magnum in a fight, I can assure you, that you will not notice the recoil or the noise. Your opponent WILL, notice, and be affected, by both the noise, and the concusion of the blast. Stats in police shootings, one on one show, that whom ever gets the first shot off regardless of whether that shot connects most times wins the fight. WHY? Most think it is demoralizing to be in a fight, and realize that your opponent is already at work, and you haven't got a shot of yet. My load will take any doubt from my opponents mind of my intentions.
Smaller guns? Can you really hide a smaller gun easier than a Model 60. Maybe, but what have you got in power and accuracy. In a Ransom Rest, a stock Model 60 will usually shoot hole for hole, target for target with a stock 6" Model 686 in a Ransom Rest BUT! In the hand, not likely. The shorter the barrel, the more critical the sight alignment.
At ten yards, a 1/16 " off barrel alignment in a six inch barrel, with the silhouette target still gets a hit, but that same 1/16" off in a 2" barrel will almost get you on the target next to the one your shooting at. I wore a Master Medal on my uniform for 18 years, but I know a handgun like the Model 60 is best used up close. It's what it was intended for. The smaller the handgun, the less distance from your opponent. That's how to look at it. How close do you wanna be?

 This is a good post with solid information, model 60 is a damn fine hideout.
The field mouse is fast, but the owl sees at night.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2010, 07:13:20 PM »
I don't know why you can't carry a Government into Chucky Cheese. I can do that with shorts and a T-shirt on and no one ever knows.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2010, 01:57:07 AM »
I guess small guns are ok for small problems .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Brett

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2010, 03:32:25 AM »
  I can carry an NAA .32 in a speedo if I needed to. My .32 is in my pocket every Sunday morning at Church.
 God bless.

Yeah, but it would be really embarrassing if a chick walked up to you on the beach and ask.."Are you glad to see me or are you packing a Mini revolver in your Speedo?"    :-[
Life memberships:  <><, NRA, BASS, NAFC

Offline Dee

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2010, 03:35:00 AM »
Sometimes the imagination just gets far too graphic here. :-\
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2010, 04:09:28 AM »
Aw they were just having a "little" fun .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Dee

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2010, 05:01:20 AM »
I would have liked the example to have been a 5'4" blond "female" in a skimpy bikini.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2010, 06:20:27 AM »
 ;D
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline williamlayton

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2010, 09:41:10 AM »
I still can't get the shard of glass out of my mind.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline teamnelson

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Re: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2010, 09:53:16 AM »
not carrying that in my speedo.  :D

to the op, one thing I think about packing a small frame large caliber semi, all the controls are on the sides. Holster is a must, I would think. Hate to rack the slide, or get a thread caught in the action when you draw in haste. Seems to me a revolver dropped in a pocket, or tucked behind a waistband without a holster would be okay. Hammerless or bobbed hammer even better.

And I do think there's a point of diminishing return with caliber selection for a SD/CCW gun. We're talking inside 5 yds probably, couple shots and break away. We're not talking lengthy gun battle over distance. That said, not certain what a .40 or .45 brings to that what a 357 doesn't.
held fast