Author Topic: SMALL HANGUNS FOR SELF DEFENSE (Read 10110 times)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #120 on:** March 23, 2010, 05:20:03 AM »

I suffer from noazzatall so i can't depend on a belt . I carry in a pocket mostly but when hunting use a belt holster or shoulder rig . We are all shaped different , I agree each must find what works .

saddlebum · « **Reply #121 on:** April 13, 2010, 01:45:24 PM »

I have a M-60 3". It's as small as I care to go. It's a .38spl and I needed to put a Pachmayr Compac grip on it to get proper control of it when firing. I need more of a handful and move my palm farther away from the trigger for better control. It's not the best CCW gun because of the adjustable rear sight but it does double duty as a good trail gun. I don't see any reason to try to go smaller. But thats just me.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #122 on:** May 21, 2010, 03:02:33 PM »

I carry a Kel Tec P32 in a shoot through wallet holster and a Cobra 9mm Luger derringer on my belt under my shirt. If taking a trip, or going into high crime areas, I also carry a 9mm XD sub Compact in a body shirt with built in holsters under each arm with a light shirt or jacket over it. The Kel Tec and Derringer are forever with me.

williamlayton · « **Reply #123 on:** May 22, 2010, 02:44:25 AM »

You just never know what I am carrying.
I have been carrying the Smith 327mag of late.
I think it is a good SD weapon.
I don't care for one aspect of it--well, all rollers--the cylinder tends to roll in my waist. Not the cylinder itself rolling but the gun rolling around the cylinder itself.
That said--it is not a particular deal breaker.
A 2" barrel in a .38 is marginal for me.
The .380 PPK/PPKS is about the small limit I prefer.
I am comfortable with a Commander sized--Sig 239--weapon up to a .45.
Anything in a Government sized--well, not a .45super. Matter of fact .45 is about the largest I am comfortable with.
.357's in any 4" revolver.
I don't want a cannon in a toy frame.
Blessings

Merle · « **Reply #124 on:** May 22, 2010, 11:38:54 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton on May 22, 2010, 02:44:25 AM

You just never know what I am carrying.
I have been carrying the Smith 327mag of late.
I think it is a good SD weapon.
I don't care for one aspect of it--well, all rollers--the cylinder tends to roll in my waist. Not the cylinder itself rolling but the gun rolling around the cylinder itself.
That said--it is not a particular deal breaker.
A 2" barrel in a .38 is marginal for me.
The .380 PPK/PPKS is about the small limit I prefer.
I am comfortable with a Commander sized--Sig 239--weapon up to a .45.
Anything in a Government sized--well, not a .45super. Matter of fact .45 is about the largest I am comfortable with.
.357's in any 4" revolver.
I don't want a cannon in a toy frame.
Blessings

Which 327 mag are you talking about & how is the muzzle blast from it?
I have been considering one in (perhaps) a Ruger SP-101.

williamlayton · « **Reply #125 on:** May 22, 2010, 11:51:14 AM »

Blast is loud and bright.
The S&W .327
I chose it over the Ruger.
Blessings

Merle · « **Reply #126 on:** May 22, 2010, 12:50:56 PM »

Quote from: williamlayton on May 22, 2010, 11:51:14 AM

Blast is loud and bright.
The S&W .327
I chose it over the Ruger.
Blessings

I expected that there would be a lost of blast, but not much recoil.

Thanks for the feedback.

Noreaster · « **Reply #127 on:** May 23, 2010, 01:49:31 PM »

I had a kel tec and got rid of it. I just don't believe in a barrel that short and a handgun that small. Yes it was easy to carry, but... I carry a Glock 33 and have been looking for a 380, (Bersa, Walther, Sig?) I use to carry a S&W 442, (great carry weapon.) But being an LEO we moved away from wheel guns and now only carry semi autos. The glock is a litte thick for summer carry for me. Will a Sig or Walther 380 perform that much better than the Kel Tec. I believe it will. Plus my shooting will be that much better with a firearm I can hold onto and maybe even use the sights. I'm leaning toward the Walther because of the size and a manuel safety, though I wish it didn't weigh so much. Just my 2 cents, to each their own.

Brett · « **Reply #128 on:** May 23, 2010, 02:45:56 PM »

You must have had a .Kel-Tec P-3AT. Have you looked at the P-11 or Pf9 9mm? I carry a P-11 it is less bulky than the Glock but still large enough to hang onto. Mine has worked flawlessly so far and is plenty accurate for it's intended use.

Savage · « **Reply #129 on:** May 24, 2010, 01:48:13 AM »

I carried and qualified with a P3AT as a BUG for a few years. One finger on the grip is less than ideal, but hey, it's a deep cover, always there, insurance policy! The Walther is certainly larger and somewhat easier to shoot than the KT. If you carry on the vest, the larger gun might not be such a problem. (Still a .380) There are 9mm pistols out there that are no larger than the Walther, and thinner/lighter to boot. I went to the KT PF9. Currently Taurus, Kahr, Sig, and likely others I'm missing, make pistols in the same size and power class. If you stick with the .380, I'd take the time to master the KT.
Savage

WD45 · « **Reply #130 on:** May 31, 2010, 06:35:56 AM »

I'll say this about your watermelon gun. It may explode a watermelon but what does that really prove ? Watermellons aint men and do not fight back or smoke crack for that matter

. Watermellons have no bone and do not wear heavy coats at least that I have seen anyway.
Now I am not saying this to make anyone mad or anything and am not discounting ballistics tests. We were out killing hogs and one of the guys had a brand new 25 auto and wanted to kill a hog with it. Well he shot that hog point blank between the eyes and all it did was bounce off the hogs head and boy oh boy was that thing mad

It went into the I want to kill anything close to me mode and brought the whole operation to a halt until it could be put down. On the subject of the many small cal weapons issued by a military. The choice of issue weapons is NOT always based on what is BEST and is more politics and opinion of people that have no clue and there are a multitude of other factors that go into it. The moros uprising was brought up and when you do a little study of what the gov issued and the beggining of it and why and what they were issuing by the end of it and why is very telling about military issue and thats just the tip of the iceburge so to speak. When it comes to a resistance movement the weapon of choice is not because it is the best killer or man stopper but sometimes is what is the most plentiful and easiest to obtain and hide / conceal. There is a big difference between walking up behind a german and putting a couple rounds in is back and a defensive confrontation against a squad with much greater fire power. Ask yourself if you want a 25 auto or a tompson 45 if a squad of germans breaks your door down? Dont forget also that what people used a hundred years ago or so to hunt and take into the wilderness with them was because it was ALL they had or could afford or get their hands on and not always due to preferrence. They did not have a gun cabinet full of different guns to choose from depending on where they were going or what they were hunting.

Noreaster · « **Reply #131 on:** May 31, 2010, 12:23:27 PM »

Having some experience and age, (takes an aweful long time to get there,) I believe the best gun is the one you have one you. The 357 mag or 45acp left in the night stand won't work very well in the parking lot at work!

Peshtigo71 · « **Reply #132 on:** May 31, 2010, 05:42:53 PM »

With the technological advancements in ammunition smaller calibers are more potent than they once were. I probably wouldn't go smaller than the .380 and something like Core-Bon or Speer Gold Dot loads. I've shot the Kel-Tec P3AT and it takes some getting used to. That's why it is so important to practice lots w/ anything you plan on using. I agree w/ some of the previous threads, IMHO guns like the Freedom Arms and others are just too small to be used by someone w/ larger hands.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #133 on:** June 01, 2010, 02:12:41 AM »

NOTHING beats cubic inches !

WD45 · « **Reply #134 on:** June 03, 2010, 05:08:56 AM »

I'm with ya Shootall

Many people I know carry small cal guns and rely on the fear factor of the gun itself to end the problem. While in most cases it probably will cause no one wants to get shot I ask them what they are going to do when fear factor does not work ? You may be defending the lives of more than your own! I would carry a 12 gauge if I could.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #135 on:** June 03, 2010, 05:25:33 AM »

When Evan Marshal first did the "one shot stops" article he included the 32 because of one ammo only. With Winchester Silvertips they had 60% stops.

That is what is in my 1903 Colt pocket pistol at all times.

RB1235 · « **Reply #136 on:** June 03, 2010, 05:45:14 AM »

There are some pretty neat ideas on this thread. I figured some of you may like a good pile of info on pocket pistols. http://www.mouseguns.com/
Personally as of late I have quit carrying the pocket pistols and went to a sub compact 45 glock in the waist band. I reckon it is a ratgun instead of mousegun according to the site I linked up.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #137 on:** June 03, 2010, 12:18:21 PM »

60% stops when I read that the first thing that comes to mind is 40% failure to stop but that's just me. Or more to the point if 5 come at you 2 will make it !

Mikey · « **Reply #138 on:** June 03, 2010, 02:18:04 PM »

Naw! 60% means 'one shot stops' and anybody worth shootin' is worth shootin' twice, so there ya top a 100% chance of stopping the assault. Questions?

Practice, practice, practice.......

skarke · « **Reply #139 on:** June 03, 2010, 03:13:02 PM »

I have an old Bersa Double stack 380 (model 85). I bought some glazer safety slugs years ago. They were so old that I thought that it would be best to replace them for fear that the plastic might deteriorate.

Well, the old ones went into 2 liters full of water.

Man, what a big ol commotion. A 380, with defense ammo, definitely will leave a mark.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #140 on:** June 04, 2010, 03:24:27 AM »

If you have time for 2 shots great many did not . Leave a mark ? a tatoo does that . Thought the idea od surviving an attack was to stop the attack not leave a mark. He I like debating with ya'll and hate to see one of ya hurt . Friends don't let friends tote mouse guns

skarke · « **Reply #141 on:** June 04, 2010, 06:36:47 AM »

Well shootall, I was being a little understated. The bottles blew up like they had c4 in them.

The 380 is rated to have 8 to 10 inches of penetration through light clothing.

The 9mm 10 to 12.

Through heavy winter wear, either might require a second shot (not to downplay the 9mm greatly superior ballistics)

The 380 is a blowback, the 9 requires a locked breach. Size matters.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #142 on:** June 04, 2010, 08:20:02 AM »

Yep and a 357 mag beats 356 anyday

Merle · « **Reply #143 on:** June 04, 2010, 01:59:05 PM »

Quote from: Mikey on June 03, 2010, 02:18:04 PM

Naw! 60% means 'one shot stops' and anybody worth shootin' is worth shootin' twice, so there ya top a 100% chance of stopping the assault. Questions? Practice, practice, practice.......

Yeah and ammo is cheap.
Funerals aren't!

williamlayton · « **Reply #144 on:** June 04, 2010, 02:16:26 PM »

Mikey
Can't you Yankees add?
60% + 60% = 120 % OR Real dead.

Blessings

LocnLod · « **Reply #145 on:** June 04, 2010, 02:38:42 PM »

Actually, the stopping percentages don't double as you think. In the Street Stoppers book, at most 2 hits got you a couple of percentages. In the 2" .38 results, 2 hits didn't increase the percentage at all. Same thing with .45 ball.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #146 on:** June 04, 2010, 02:48:40 PM »

Quote from: williamlayton on June 04, 2010, 02:16:26 PM

Mikey
Can't you Yankees add?
60% + 60% = 120 % OR Real dead.
Blessings

yes we Yankees can add.
But there is nothing more than 100% stopped.
There is not 20% backed up on top of the stopped.

Quote from: LocnLod on June 04, 2010, 02:38:42 PM

Actually, the stopping percentages don't double as you think. In the Street Stoppers book, at most 2 hits got you a couple of percentages. In the 2" .38 results, 2 hits didn't increase the percentage at all. Same thing with .45 ball.

Yes we understand that the % are not liniar but tossing two implies you will continue to shoot till the other guy stops.
May be two may be four. May be every one in the gun.
And with the street stoppers book. It took two to stop either stop them or that was all they put in him and they stopped shooting rather than stopping the assailant. heck the Lone ranger only needed one and not a center chest hit to stop the bad guys. most were to the hand or the hat and the bad guys went running. Why would the average home owner not think that one or two center mass would stop the bad guy. in the 70's, 80's and early 90's when the book was published.
You also see that with big game animals.
The forst round does not work and the adrenline is in the system and the second shot that is easy a DRT shot if it was a first one has the animal running for a little ways. People are the same way and adrenaline is some aweful powerful stuff.

williamlayton · « **Reply #147 on:** June 05, 2010, 02:15:53 AM »

According to the lore of this forum one observer noted, some years ago, that there was dead---real dead---and, dead as a doornail.
I really do not disagree with dead as being ample, however; without close examination, I prefer too be able too observe dead from a distance---therefore, real dead works for me.
Yankees are alright in my book.
Blessings

WD45 · « **Reply #148 on:** June 05, 2010, 07:09:18 AM »

All this talk about one shot stops got me to thinking that the real question is ... How long did it take them to stop after the one shot !!!!! put that in yer pipe and smoke it for awhile ..... Or how about this, Would you get in a vehicle of any kind if your chance of getting to your destination alive was 60 % ?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #149 on:** June 07, 2010, 02:30:53 AM »

Well a one shot stop means to most they stop right now . And as proof I offer if they were doing something that caused you to shoot to stop them from doing it you would shoot a second time if they did not stop ! I realize this reeks of common sense and I fully expect the what ifs and bear attacks to enter the conversation at this point.