Author Topic: Christians in the "Crosshairs" (Read 980 times)

lgm270 · « **on:** January 22, 2010, 04:16:22 AM »

Are you a Christian who believes that (1) Marriage is the union of one man and one woman and (2) that you have the right to vote in elections?

Well if you do, a gay "activist" lawyer has announced that you are guilty of "religious bigotry" and that "religious voters are in the crosshairs."

California voters supported Prop 8 which defined marriage as between one man and one woman and, having lost at the polls, Gays have gone to federal court to have Prop 8 overturned by activist judges. During the trial, internal memos from the Mormon and Catholic churches showed an extensive involvement in rallying their members to support traditional marriage. (No right to privacy for Christians, only for abortionists.)

ONe of the lawyers for the Gays made the following statement:

"Andy Pugno, a lawyer for the Proposition 8 campaign, said in an interview that it was "astonishing" that the court allowed into evidence internal communications of churches.

"Today has been a major expression of religious bigotry," Pugno said of Wednesday's testimony. "The gloves have clearly come off, and religious voters are in the cross-hairs."[/i]

http://www.cafemom.com/group/94103/forums/read/10670731/Edited_Prop_8_challengers_highlight_religions_role_in_campaign_vs_Prop_8_supporters_show_some_church?last

Free speech? Free elections? Christians need not apply. The gloves are coming off and you are in the crosshairs. What an interesting term for him to use.

Dee · « **Reply #1 on:** January 22, 2010, 04:36:43 AM »

lgm270, ALL LAWYERS ARE ACTIVISTS. They defend the guilty and use what ever skills they have, at twisting the truth and the law, to get them off. It's about money. Gays on the other hand are what they are. Chapter One of Romans pretty well clears that up.
At the end of the day, the guilty, and the innocent, and the perverted all one way or the other, pay the price while the lawyer gets a check.

God has much to say about lawyers and their trade in such matters.

Luke Chapter 11 verse 46. Woe unto you also, YE LAWYERS! for YE LADE MEN WITH BURDENS GRIEVOUS TO BE BORNE, and ""YE YOURSELVES TOUCH NOT THE BURDENS" WITH ONE OF YOUR FINGERS".

Like I said. Everyone else gets the problems, and they get a check.

As far as Christians being in the cross hairs, we always have been. The very first Christian was Christ, and in a KANGAROO "COURT", He was sentenced to death. Get used to it. It will get worse.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 22, 2010, 05:07:01 AM »

DEE I can add nothing else. You have said it all and stated better than I ever could.

bearmgc · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2010, 06:34:49 AM »

DEE, +1, straight to the point. Everything is in the Bible. Christians are not surprised. Know that, read that.

powderman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2010, 11:08:45 AM »

Homosexuals want to go to hell?

Their choice. POWDERMAN.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #5 on:** January 22, 2010, 11:24:39 AM »

Dee - +1
You need to slide over - will be crowded on the target berm! When "that day" comes, it will be a crowded range, and, by the sounds of things, there will be more shooters than targets - somethings never change. Twas the same in Christ's time. The Bible tells me so!!

Regards,
Sweetwater

wareagleguy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2010, 11:31:43 AM »

Not taking sides. Just a question.
How can anyone side a marriage as anything to do with "Christians" or religion?

lgm270 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2010, 03:00:50 PM »

The issue is not how you define marriage, but the fact that the homosexuals have announced their intention to retaliate against and terrorize Christians for stating their views on this controversial subject. The same tolerant liberals who never met a pornographer whose free speech rights they would not fight to the death to defend, think Christians should just shut the Hell up.

I had a friend in law enforcement in Central California in the mid 1980's. He told me that the militant queers up there would read letters to the editor in the local newspapers looking for people who stated anti-gay opinions. Those people would be targeted for harrassing phone calls, vandalism, slashed tires, threats against their children and other forms of domestic terror. They didn't call it that then, but that's what it is.

When Pete Wilson was Gov. of California he vetoed some bill and enraged the Gays. I remember seeing news footage of them throwing things at Wilson at a press conference. Later that day they set up road blocks on some LA streets, randomly stopped cars, pulled out the drivers and beat the hell out of them. This was shown on the evening TV news. I remember watching it and thinking, "Where the Hell are the cops?"

It was kind of like the Rodney King Riots of 1992. TV crews showed live coverage of whites being dragged out of cars and beaten to pulps by mobs of "historically underprivileged minorities" with no cops in sight. It was bizarre.

powderman · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2010, 03:17:06 PM »

Quote from: wareagleguy on January 22, 2010, 11:31:43 AM

Not taking sides. Just a question.
How can anyone side a marriage as anything to do with "Christians" or religion?

A marriage is not just a comittment between a man and woman, it is also a comittment to God. If God doesn't sanction it, it is NOT a marriage. The queers and lezzies may get their piece of paper, but they aint married in Gods eyes, or mine. Why do you think it's called HOLY matrimony?

?? Hope this answers your question. POWDERMAN.

wareagleguy · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2010, 03:44:54 PM »

I think the problem is the "state" can't charge a tax on marriage and deny anyone. Either make it religious and get out of the marriage business or tax it and let anyone get married.

wareagleguy · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2010, 04:20:00 PM »

That is my point. If anyone thinks that marriage and religion go hand-in-hand, why do you allow the government to tax it? It is a right under the freedom of religion for you to marry. So, a marrage licence (tax) should never be allowed! EVER!
So, my point is you are fighting the wrong fight. If you believe that marrage is religious then FIRST get Uncle Sam out of it and then getting gays out will not be a problem.
I don’t understand why anyone puts up with the government taxing our freedom of religion. I don’t think I should be taxed in any way to practice it. However, as long and the governemt taxes it and uses it as a contract between two people it has to be allowed for everyone.

williamlayton · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2010, 08:58:42 PM »

I know non-christians who would define hmosexuals as wrong by choice, they would also be anti-abortion.
Being a Christian is not about politics.
Being a Christian in about faith---not as one said on an interview one time" Christian? Hell yes, I am an American aren't I."
Now I am going to stir the pot--not by choice but as a means for us too look at lawyers from a different angle.
A Lawyers advice is his stock in trade. Do you know very many who are charged with a crime that do not want to be defended--get off--? Of course not! They hire a lawyer and a lawyer is PAID to make the best defense he can, for his client. Why pay a guy to tell the judge that this guy is guilty as sin?
Judges and juries are the culprit--not the lawyer who is paid to defend.
Lawyers make arguement---That is what they are susposed to do, THEY do not get avote on the jury panel.
Blessings

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2010, 01:05:46 AM »

words to think on brother ..slim

Dee · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2010, 07:46:01 AM »

So according to William, Christ was mistaken when He made his unprovoked remarks in Luke Chapter 11 verses 46, & 52 concerning lawyers and their distortions of the truth and justice?
I guess Christ just didn't understand, and shouldn't have said anything, about something he knew nothing about. Was Christ a LIAR, OR PROPAGANDIST OF MIS-INFORMATION concerning lawyers? Christ SEEMED TO KNOW,

what he was talking about.Hmmmmmm

lgm270 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2010, 08:18:17 AM »

The point of this thread is not that lawyers are necessarily any worse than anyone else.

The point is to draw attention to the fact that militant homosexual leadership has openly announced its intention to use retaliation and terrorism against Christian voters who speak out on this issue.

There is a free speech issue here that everyone appears to have missed. I don't care if one of those perverts wants to marry his German shephard. That's not the issue here. The issue is that Christians are being singled out for retaliation and attack for expressing political opinions and voting in supposedly "free" elections.

Should Christian people be subject to a "gag rule" regarding the subject of homosexuals and should retaliation against them be socially acceptable?

sagegrouse715 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2010, 08:51:35 AM »

I would hate to have to admit to being beaten up by gay guys.

sagegrouse715 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2010, 08:57:01 AM »

Government is involved in marriage to insure people aren't marrying relatives or passing sexually transmitted disease. Thus the licensing fee for providing that check. Besides a religious partnership, it is a legal partnership and that is where government needs to have a hand in it.

Dee · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2010, 04:52:47 AM »

Licenses issued by the state are nothing more than a means of more REVENUE. Marriage between a man and a woman is Biblical, and relationships outside the marriage Biblically are also referenced and the consequences there of.
The most important marriage of all is reference between Abraham (the first Hebrew) and his wife Sara, and her hand maid's off spring thru an adulterous relationship with Abraham.

Gays to me are what they are. Given today's health issues, their life expectancy is about 10 years. Their tendency to FLAUNT their perversion in public is my only complaint. You don't want them in your pulpits but, they are. You don't want them in your schools as teachers, but they are. You don't want them in your military, but they are. Their lawyers however, will, and have, ram it down everyone else's throats, (no pun intended) when, and if they are able to, and are paid enough. This is their actual stock and trade. Pay me enough, and I'll get it done, regardless of the moral implications. If a queer, can't get into the Boy Scouts as a Leader, a lawyer will try and figure out how to get him in, REGARDLESS of whether YOU want him in. Like it or not, that's the way it is.
This tendancy is why they were so highly regarded by Christ.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2010, 05:16:19 AM »

Didn't Jesus say to render unto Cesar that which is Cesar's and unto God that which is God's? Didn't He also say that we should obey the laws of the rulers (government)?
I think we are misunderstanding Luke 11. These "Lawyers" Jesus was chastising were the ones interpreting the Religious laws. They were the "experts who decided what the Lord "really meant" or what little traditions men should follow. That's why He said they whitewashed the sepulchres and didn't let men see the truth. I don't find that to be what lawyers today do, and I know many Christian lawyers.
Maybe we should read about Sodom and Gomorrah to see how God feels about homosexuals. Very interesting.
As far as Christians being in the crosshairs, bring it on! But you better shoot straight because my God doesn't miss.

sagegrouse715 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2010, 08:49:42 AM »

True, licenses raise revenue. But it is a user fee. I have only had to pay $50 once. I am glad the state says 12 year olds can't get married. That you can't marry your first cousin. Or your sister. Or be married to 10 women or husbands. These things have happened. We need this government oversight.

Dee · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2010, 05:25:32 PM »

Quote from: gwhilikerz on January 24, 2010, 05:16:19 AM

Didn't Jesus say to render unto Cesar that which is Cesar's and unto God that which is God's? Didn't He also say that we should obey the laws of the rulers (government)?
I think we are misunderstanding Luke 11. These "Lawyers" Jesus was chastising were the ones interpreting the Religious laws. They were the "experts who decided what the Lord "really meant" or what little traditions men should follow. That's why He said they whitewashed the sepulchres and didn't let men see the truth. I don't find that to be what lawyers today do, and I know many Christian lawyers.
Maybe we should read about Sodom and Gomorrah to see how God feels about homosexuals. Very interesting.
As far as Christians being in the crosshairs, bring it on! But you better shoot straight because my God doesn't miss.

Sir, the Sanhedrin "COURT" ,sentenced Christ to die. Under Roman law they (the Jewish Court) could not kill, and Pilot was pushed into the actual act. As far as obeying the law of the land, ONLY IF, the law is Biblically MORAL. No where in the Bible are you instructed to go against Biblical Law just because it is an carnal government mandate. God instructs us to settle our differences AMOUNG OURSELVES (Christians) rather than that of the unsaved heathen. He also tells us we are to be a PECULIAR PEOPLE, in that we are to separate ourselves from the world. Maybe you should RE-READ, the scripture quoted, and study the Sanhedrin. Although under Roman rule, the Jew was under JEWISH LAW, and JEWISH "LAWYERS" were active INTERPRETING that law INCORRECTLY, much as the lawyer of today is "manipulating the laws" here in the U.S..

Oldshooter · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2010, 05:49:56 PM »

I am impressed Dee! Seriously! We dont always agree but we do have some common ground!

I am enjoying this read. I am no bible scholar, but I do agree with what you have said. Especially this part:

Quote

As far as Christians being in the cross hairs, we always have been. The very first Christian was Christ, and in a KANGAROO "COURT", He was sentenced to death. Get used to it. It will get worse.

Dee · « **Reply #22 on:** January 24, 2010, 05:55:13 PM »

I'm not a scholar either, but I have taught this subject in classes. It is for the studied, basic knowledge. It is like Dispensations. Most older Christians have never heard of them, yet they are key to the Bible in many ways. It is more amazing what IS NOT taught, many times than what IS.

williamlayton · « **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2010, 12:27:04 AM »

Let's see if we can make sense of all of this here.
Must we separate Christianity from the Law of the land?
As a Christian on a jury I must judge by the law of the land. If the Lawyer makes good arguement about the law--either side--I must judge this person---Not the law.
to judge the law I must vote.
Now the Lord WILL be the final judge of all--and He already has--and believers are not found guilty or innocent by the law but under grace.
I understand where Dee is coming from.
Do I disagree--to some extent. We are really talking about judgeing the law of the land. That conversation could go on for more time than we have.
If the law is such and such and a person acts under that law we are to judge him by that law---not by what we think the law should be.
Blessings

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:46:20 AM »

Sir Dee, I don't see where we are that much apart. I knew I should have added 'if at all possible" when I said we should obey the law. Yes, I know who the Sanhedrin were. Didn't I say the "lawyers" Jesus was talking to were deciding religious law? It was the Romans deciding civil law.
I will indeed "RE-READ". I always read the verses that are put in front of me in these discussions. Just to be clear, I won't get into a discussion about which poster/scholar knows the most, has taught the most, or has a closer walk with Jesus. So deflate you chest and maybe we can have a good discussion on the original topic.

Dee · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2010, 05:23:39 AM »

My chest has not been inflated, but we will not be having a discussion. Your out of context, and unnecessary sarcasms directed at me, are duly noted, and rejected.

Author Topic: Christians in the "Crosshairs" (Read 980 times)

sagegrouse715

sagegrouse715

sagegrouse715