BURN'S NIGHT MONDAY

[Terry C.]

I think, that one is a previous kewpie winner

It may have been at some point, but not in the build thread. This one predates the introduction of the Kewpie, although not by much.

[carronader]

Must be good for you............Bush won't eat it  
 
 Scots Americans were rejoicing last night as news circulated that the US government was planning to lift a 21-year ban on Scottish haggis. Just one problem… it may not happen.

"Yes, haggis, I was briefed on haggis," said George W Bush before the G8 summit at Gleneagles in 2005.

Was he tempted to try it, asked the interviewer from the Times? No, he wasn't.

He went on: "Generally, on your birthday, my mother used to say: 'What do you want to eat?' and I don't ever remember saying: 'Haggis, mom.'"

 ADDRESS TO A HAGGIS
 Ye Pow'rs wha mak mankind your care, And dish them out their bill o' fare, Auld Scotland wants nae skinking ware That jaups in luggies; But, if ye wish her gratefu' prayer, Gie her a haggis!

Final verse
Robert Burns
Mr Bush reflects the uneasy attitude many people have towards the Scottish national dish.

Nonetheless, at Burns suppers around the world last night, large numbers of people will have tucked in, with varying degrees of enthusiasm, after hailing the bulging delicacy with Robert Burns' eight-verse Address to a Haggis.

For many of the six million Scots in America, who last night enjoyed the puff of "warm-reeking, rich" steam as the knife went in, the ultimate in patriotism is a haggis from Scotland itself.

'Incorrect' reports

So, reports that the US is about to lift a ban on British beef and lamb - imposed in 1989 at the height of the BSE outbreak - were greeted with a chorus of delight (and some irony) on Twitter.

 HAGGIS TWEETS
Och Aye! US planning to relax haggis ban... The 'great chieftain o' the puddin' will soon be back!
A Tennessee response to the lifted haggis ban "No More Bootleg Sheep Guts!"
ShipCapt: Thank GOD the wait is over! Haggis Allowed In The U.S. After 21-Year Ban
To celebrate US lifts ban on haggis.Thats a good thing?
Renowned haggis producers Macsween's of Edinburgh were also sizing up the US market, and reckoning it to be "enormous".

But just as Burns Night was getting under way in the US, and reaching its climax in the UK, an e-mail came through from the US Department of Agriculture, quashing the good news.

"Recently, several news articles have incorrectly stated that the US will be relaxing or lifting its ban on Scottish haggis," a spokeswoman wrote.

A review of the ban on beef and lamb products was under way, she said, but there was no specific time frame for its completion.


 HAGGIS HEADLINES
Scots Jump for Joy as US Plans to Lift Haggis Ban (Sphere)
Haggis, a Scottish staple that's been banned here, may soon reappear on American tables (New York Daily News)
U.S. to Relax Its Haggis Ban: Lamb's Lungs All Around! (The Village Voice)
Dr Christopher Robinson of the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service explained that a proposal to allow imports of "ruminant products" from the UK may be put out for public consultation some time this year.

Nothing more definite than that.

But there appears to be another problem for the most traditional haggis producers - since 1971 the US has banned food made with sheep's lung.

The classic recipe calls for the heart, liver and lung of the sheep to be chopped up and combined with pinhead (not rolled) oats, onions, suet, spices and seasoning, then stuffed in a sheep's stomach.

Offal culture

Haggis producer Fraser MacGregor of Cockburn's in Dingwall says, "If it hasn't got lamb's lung, it isn't haggis." It makes up 10 to 15% of the entire recipe, he says.

So to open the path for Transatlantic trade in true haggis, two rules will have to be changed, and as far as the BBC has been able to determine, only one is currently even being reviewed.

Even supposing the US were to lift all haggis trade barriers, it's not clear how big a hit the dish would be with US consumers. The New York Times once wrote that it had "an august reputation for repulsiveness".


 
Haggis was once stuffed in a sheep's stomach, but this is now uncommon
"They don't have the same culture of eating offal," points out Jo Macsween.

"In Europe there is respect for the whole animal and nothing should be wasted, in America it's more prime cuts, fillet and sirloin."

When Americans try it, she says, they invariably love it and cannot understand their government's import ban.

The problem, perhaps, is getting them to try it in the first place - as with George Bush

Lesley MacLennan Denninger, chief of the New York Caledonian Club, says her club would love to ship over a real Scottish haggis over for Burns Night.

She'd also like it to be widely available in the US, to help American producers - who sometimes take sirloin beef as their main ingredient - raise their game.

"I think it might improve some of the American haggis if they could find out what it tasted like," she said.

"I have had some that tasted OK, even some out of a can.

"I don't want to knock American haggis, but generally it's not the same, it tastes more like liver pate."



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Add your comments on this story, using the form below.

Yes, I've felt deprived of true haggis for more than two decades. If only a proper recipe were available, we enthusiasts across the pond could search for suppliers of required ingredients, create a market, and avoid the insult of pseudo-haggis. Once before I die, I want to make a haggis here in the US which a Scot finds palatable, nay, delectable! TRUE HAGGIS OR NAUGHT!

[red alder ranch]

the burns dinner I went to three years ago had a haggis made by a local butcher from local, grass fed lamb. Don't know if the "lights" were used or not.

the haggis we are getting this weekend will be coming from a custom meat shop in Seattle that my brother has been talking to. we'll see how it goes!

years ago when I still raised sheep, we made chopped liver from a recipe in a Jewish cookbook. Lungs were part of it. It was delicious, but really rich and strong. We put it on crackers and toast.

[Terry C.]

"In Europe there is respect for the whole animal and nothing should be wasted, in America it's more prime cuts, fillet and sirloin."

Maybe now, but when I was a boy living on a tenant farm in rural southeastern Georgia things we different.

We didn't even qualify as dirt poor, 'cause we didn't own the dirt. Grandpa was a sharecropper, the dirt belonged to someone else.

As I said earlier, when we butchered hogs or cows, nothing ever went to waste.


"Liver & Lights" was a staple at our table, and I loved it. Liver and lungs in brown gravy, served over rice!

[Cat Whisperer]

My wife's mother said that when they slaughtered hogs the only thing they didn't use was the squeal.

[dan610324]

terry , now you are talking food that even a viking can feel the smell of it 
I love liver in a creamy gravy, rice or potatoes doesnt matter for me to liver

[Zulu]

When we were kids, my Father told us liver was buffalo meat.  We devoured it and bragged to our friends at school.  I was 13 when I found out liver wasn't buffalo   Too late, I already liked it.
Zulu

[dan610324]

liver is nice , especially chicken liver that they start selling here a few years ago

please help me , how can I relate this to cannons ??   

[Zulu]

In some test, didn't someone fire frozen chickens out of a cannon at airplane windshields?  Maybe it was mythbusters. 
Zulu

[GGaskill]

There is a test done by the FAA using unfrozen chickens; the frozen chicken story appears to be a joke that has been told so many times (and ways) that it has entered the realm of belief.  See this Snopes report for more details.

[Double D]

Only pre 1898 chicken cannons allowed on this board!  

But at least we are back to cannons...

For those who don't understand, Carronader's nickname for mortars is "Haggis Boiler's".  So now you can see he is on topic here...I think!  

[thelionspaw]

cannon cannon cannon cannon cannon cannon. There! That should get us passed the censors.

O.K.. Now that things have calmed down; here's my recipe for "Haggis in a Skillet". It comes from the ladies and laddies of my Scottish Society. Haggis is Scottish liverwurst; pure and simple but mine is civilized. They make it in a lasagna pan with easy to buy ingredients. I think I wrote here long ago, that my society wanted me to fire a frozen haggis from the lion's paw. You can easily bake it in a lasagna pan too but I stuff it in a hog casing, sausage style.

4 1/2 lbs ground chuck
3/4 lb ground beef liver
3/4 lb ground beef kidney or chicken gizzards with hearts
3 lbs chopped onion
1/2 cup Cream Sherry
2 tsp cayenne pepper
1 tbs salt
2 tsp white pepper
1 1/2 tsp ground all spice
Bovril or Kitchen Bouquet

Now here's the all important oatmeal part: 1/2 lb Irish oatmeal plus 1/2 lb fine Scottish oatmeal. OR 1 lb of regular oatmeal (maybe grits???). It has to be lightly blended into the mix a little at a time after toasting.

Toast the oatmeal in a 250 oven for 10 minutes.

Cook meat & onions with water in a skillet.
Reserve liquid.
Mix sherry, meat & onions, spices, oatmeal with the Bovril/Kitchen Bouquet and reserved liquid  plus how much water you need to make a soft dropping consistency.

If you are using a skillet, stir it for about 45 minutes.

It's easy and there's no trick to it. It's a "Guys' Thing".

When I raised beef cattle, hogs, chickens, etc. shopping for the meat was easy. Locally, we used to have a men's dinner that was called the "Heart & Liver Hunt" whereby everyone kicked-in those parts from the deer take and had it at the local gun club where we can fire a cannon.

O.K. Douglas.... the ball (haggis) is in your court

[Cannoneer]

Holy cannoli, Douglas' post just jogged my memory, now I remember that this forum is actually dedicated to discussing black powder cannons and mortars; and yes, I do know that it's really BP Mortar and Cannon.

Dan ......they got all kinds of stuff down there..............not out on display...........what a waste........damn museums...   they got arms........armour...........model cannons.........full size.........I'm not picking on Chicago.............they are all the same.  
  Wassup Boomj         I send ya scuttling off in wrong direction.......yea yea I know you knew all about them.

Tom, you're right, I did know about them, but what I owe you a big thank you for, is making me aware of the fact that every item has been photographically recorded/documented by the Art institute of Chicago, and is accessible online; that, I didn't know, and I never thought to look.
The pieces that Carronader posted are from the George F. Harding Collection of armor, weapons and art from the middle ages to the 19th century. This collection is considered by many, to be the finest of its kind in the USA, and it was acquired by the Art Institute in the 1980's. Another thing Tom is right about, is the fact that so many museums around the world just don't have the wherewithal to show many of their artifacts, so these items are often only occasionally seen by curators, and museum staff. The Harding Collection consists of 1500 items of which approximately 250 are on permanent display in one room. I've viewed the items on permanent display many times, and there are some incredible things there; from Ottoman Empire bejeweled daggers to a couple of elaborately decorated European Renaissance miniature artillery field pieces. The "full size" part is the one thing Tom had wrong; nearly all the artillery pieces in this collection are miniature models. There are usually some minor differences of opinion involved in discussions about the exact purpose of these historic miniature ordnance models, so Ill leave that for another time, but they are without question, (at least in my opinion) fine examples of the European gun founder's art.


The gun that Dan mentioned is identified as German c. 1740, bronze 24-inch barrel, 22mm bore, model field cannon with carriage.



Cosimo Cenni, Florence, Italy, bronze model cannon, 1625. I like the philosopher's head for a cascabel on this one.



Antonio Perelli, Italian bronze model howitzer on carriage, 1804.



Hans Reischperger, Vienna 1595, bronze model culverin with field carriage.



French model naval gun, 1677.



Austrian bronze model naval cannon 1693. ETA: Length - 70.5cm (27.75 in.) Caliber 38mm (1.50 in.)



Model of a bronze cannon on a field carriage with limber, late 17th century.



Venice, bronze model field cannon, 17th century.

[carronader]

you forgot Damn Swedes.............sneaking around store rooms............VIP tours of drop dead gorgeous carriages and barrels..........unless you're a sneaky Swede etc. etc. you're proly never gonna see what some old fart has marked down as class ll.Remember a lot of this stuff has been donated or left in wills just so Joe Public can get to see it...........or more likely dragged off to the big City locations from provincial sites........who then lose visitors...credibility...........and the downward spiral continues. 
 London........London.......London..........everything worth seeing must be in London.........my ass.  the place is full of foreigners..........finding a rural Castle with it's full compliment of ordnance is virtually impossible.............with full compliance of English and Scottish Heritage...........our great defenders of publicly owned buildings and artefacts.Even the Russians do it............look up Scythian Gold.........where is it now ? St.Petersburg..............ooo they kindly left some minor items to keep the locals quiet.What they already have in the hermitage is insane..............you can't take it all in. When are those wonderfull little cannons gonna be displayed ? maybe if enough letters get sent.

[Double D]

 
The gun that Dan mentioned is identified as German c. 1740, bronze 24-inch barrel, 22mm bore, model field cannon with carriage.

Here's a point for thought, John or anyone.

In 1740 would htis cannon bore be 22mm bore, .866 inch bore or a .08 1/2 PDR? 

[RocklockI]

Half pounders were fairly common as VOC guns .

[GGaskill]

In 1740 would this cannon bore be 22mm bore, ...

It certainly wouldn't be a 22mm bore since the metric system hadn't been imposed yet.

[Cannoneer]

That's right, all the German states (after unification) didn't adopt the metric system until 1875, so in 1740 they would have been using the German inch.
Now, the following information is from Wikipedia, so with eyes open: The German inch was called a Zoll, and it was usually 12 zolls to the foot, but in some parts of Germany it could be 11 = 1 foot, and also 10 = 1 foot.

When are those wonderfull little cannons gonna be displayed ? maybe if enough letters get sent.

That is a good question, but unfortunately I think the most reasonable answer is going to be not any time soon. Unless someone gives/leaves a huge donation to the museum that specifically states that the money is to be used to build a wing to house the collection, then it will not happen. What they could do is rotate the artifacts like they do with some paintings, and most of their drawing/graphics collection, but they're in all probability not going to do that, because of all the work that it would entail. It's a real shame, because as far as I know, this has never been done, and those 250 items on display have never been changed. Until I saw the photos you posted I had never seen that mortar, or the other cannons, even though I did know that the museum had many other artillery pieces in storage.

[Cannoneer]

O.K.. Now that things have calmed down; here's my recipe for "Haggis in a Skillet". It comes from the ladies and laddies of my Scottish Society. Haggis is Scottish liverwurst; pure and simple but mine is civilized.

Good grief, Rich! Are you a Plaidman too, what else ya got, is Geronimo perhaps a relative, how about Attila the Hun, maybe you've got some Tibetan blood in common with the Dalai Lama? 
It's good to see a post from you, even though I well realize that you are an incorrigible devil.

Furthermore, 'The Galloping Gourmet' (even though he was a Scot) would never touch that stuff, not even with a ten foot fork!

[dan610324]

by the proportions cannon / carriage I would guess that its a 24 pounder in a suitable scale

1/2 pounders had a 40 - 41 mm bore

if it had been a scaled down 1/2 pounder the carriage should have been much more slim in proportions

but the spokes look too slim compared to the trails for a 20 - 36 lbser
maybe some mistake in the scaled down model

[carronader]

Dan, the spokes look too slim for the rims also................full carriage looks totally out of proportion........maybe it was built in Scotland ?...............what ( in the Shipyards ) used to be called a Friday afternoon.........or a Monday morning job.