need 1911 advice

[xd-40]

ok, here goes, and please bear with me, asking for help like this is not in my nature.

I need a 1911, I've always loved them, I like the appearance, the simplicity, the proven track record, the weight, the way they feel as I caress them before bed.

a few years ago, I bought a springfield 1911GI (the new clone, don't even know if they made them originally) had issues with everything I fed it, it was moderately accurate (minute of pie plate at 20 or so yards), but NOTHING like what it should have been.   feeding problems at a minimum of 1 of 3 rounds, no matter what I was feeding it.  cast RN or SWC, handloaded jacketed RN, SWC, HP  factory Win, Rem, and everything else I could find in town, in every bullet configuration I could find.  still wouldn't feed right, new mags, wouldn't run. paid a gunsmith 123.75 after tax to polish it up and replace the springs, he determined that the chamber was too short, reamed it for free, in addition, it came from the factory "egg-shaped". after he worked on it, it ran better, only malfunctioned 1 of mebbe 5 rounds.   so I sold it.

then I bought a kimber bp10II  best shootin single-shot .45 you could imagin, wouldn't feed for nuthin though. (didn't wanna go fully into battery)  this time, I didn't bother wasting money on a gunsmith, I sold it (after replacing springs myself, and replacing mags and mag springs)  didn't run, sold it.

I want a 1911, I can't afford to drop 1000+

I want an accurate gun, won't be bullseye shooting, but want a gun that'll drill quarters at 20 yards, every time.

I want a reliable gun, something I can trust my life to.

is there something out there, that is AFFORDABLE (new or used)  that i'd be able to trust, and enjoy? hopefully full-size (4 or 5 in barrel).

thanks.
Josh

[Mikey]

Josh:  man, that's terrible luck with two out of two going bad on ya, especially since they were of different manufacture.

I just do not understand why 'gunsmiths' would try and fix a chamber in a replaceable barrel.  If the dang chamber in the barrel isn't round or in spec, swap the barrel out.  

I would opt for a S&W Scandium for the next attempt.  I can find them here, or order them from a local shop for around $600, + or -.  I have thought of the 4" Commander length barrel to replace my aging Commander but I think they are also available in 5".  I have not heard anything bad about them so I'm hoping they would be a option for you, and they meet your specs for accuracy.  Good Luck.

[williamlayton]

Hummmm, contact Vandenburg Custom would be a quick reply that may not be applicable.
I do know, from experience, that not all Gunsmiths are made equal.
I found mine based on reputation, from many people.
I have thread here on the Norinco--it may be a worthwhile read.
I agree that you have need of a good reputable, reliable Smith and I do think you have had an extreme amount of misfortune with two guns.
Don't give up---Look at STI from Dawson Pecision---I have had very good results from them.
Colts are good--if you need good work find a good Smith.
I am +1 with Mikey on his comments.
Blessings  

[jimster]

Sorry to hear of your reliability problems with those two 1911's there but here is my opinion on what your looking for in a 1911.

Any 1911 that keeps them all in a quarter at 20 yards consistantly is going to be a 1911 set up for target and will be expensive. The higher end 1911's may well have this accuracy, they may not be as cheap as your looking for.
1911's built to original specs or close to them may not have this accuracy but may be within your price range, and 1911's can be tweaked of course to give better accuracy no matter who makes them.  This also could cost some more money.  I have not a lot of experience with the higher end 1911's, all I ever had was Colt's and Springfield, the 2002 Springfield Armory mil-spec I have now is very reliable and can do 3 inches at 25 yards all day with good ammo, most times 3.5 inches with almost anything out there (this is from a rest of course) but the main thing for me is it is always reliable with any mag I use.  I had a series 80 Combat Target Colt that would do 2" at 25 yards all day along with almost anything, it was probably as accurate as anything I ever bought concerning 1911's.  1911's were not designed to shoot into a quarter at 20 yards, they do make them, and they can be worked on to do this, but it will cost you.  As far as 1911's go, I am happy to be able to bounce gallon milk jugs around consistantly at 25 yards and not have reliabilty problems, to get one that I could bounce soup cans around all day at 50 meters and feed any kind of ammo is out of my price range, this would be a special 1911 that was either made this way at the factory, or made this way by a good smith.  To top that off, to be able to feed all the different types of ammo you listed and still be reliable, is asking a lot of the 1911.  I'm not saying it can't be done of course, I'm saying it would be expensive. Just my opinion...

Jim

[rdmallory]

I am sure I am going to get flamed but have you considered a Taurus?

I have owned two and had to change out the hammer/sheer one to get rid of the lock but it took all standard 1911 parts.

Very accurate but does not  feed hollow points well with a full mag.


Doug

[Savage]

No flames here. Among my 1911s there resides one Taurus. Never a problem of any kind with it. Haven't had any problems with my Kimbers either tho. XD40, tough luck man! My experiences with the two brands you mentioned have been good.
Savage

[1911crazy]

I been down that road with 3 bad 1911's brand new right out of the box too. Two new colts and one springer.  The new colts are long gone but i have the new springer in black park its too purdy to part with.  I have the new mcCormic mag for it but i haven't tried it out yet.  Mikey here says its the mag thats making it stove pipe. At this point i haven't had much faith in 1911's. I was gun shy about buying another one.

My well used norinco (only $300) was the very first 1911 to function/cycle properly. This was my last shot at owning a 1911, if it didn't function this was my last one. It works so awesome it raised my interest to get another new 1911 just to see if i could get one more good one.  I went looking for a shooter/beater low budget 1911 with no frills/ bells or whistles.  I really wanted a S.A.M.  or a Charles Daly or an RIA but i never found one on my search for one.  But i did find the new Auto-Ordnance Army WW2 copy 1911a1.  My dealer had a stack of them at $389 back then.  I purchased it and we put it thru the paces at the range trying to maker it fail between a few shooters we hammered it non stop.  We put about 500rds thru it by now, maybe more.  Its been flawless the whole time.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy another new AO 1911.  My bad luck in new 1911's has been broken.

This taught me you don't need to spend big dollars to have a decent 1911 that shoots and cycles the way one should.

My problem now is my quest for a shooter /beater continues on.  I feel the new AO is a much better quality 1911 than the cheap shooter/beater i'm looking for.  I may go browsing for a used cheap 1911 next.

BTW;  I can put my life on the line with my norinco or my new AO 1911 there that good and reliable.

[Dee]

I've never found one that I couldn't make feed, if it was a quality made 1911. And if they wanted a little more, I can make them feed empties. Wasn't much of a 1911 Smith sounds like. A gun smith is not necessarily a 1911 smith.
Try a Charles Daly. The metallurgy is good, and the problems feeding, if any should be minimal, and their priced right.

[williamlayton]

What Dee said.
I am a little more particular than most and I am counting seven in the house now. My experiences are better than yours, as I have never had one to malfunction that a good Smith didn't fix.
This is just my view, however; and all others may differ.
This old Norinco that I have was a good functioning weapon but had some issues/parts/things I preferred to have attended too--most wouldn't--and Ed did me good. i even thinks he likes Norinco's.
We stood around the shop, when I picked it up, with some boys who were there to have some work done on a .223 rifle. They handled the ol thang and Ed gave us all a lecture on the Norinco.
He never complained about the hardness of the steel--and it is harder than 4140 or how it chewed up his cutters. He liked the old school design of it and how parts were easily obtained for it.
Keep on with the 1911's--they can be rounded into shape.
Blessings     

[xd-40]

Sorry to hear of your reliability problems with those two 1911's there but here is my opinion on what your looking for in a 1911.

Any 1911 that keeps them all in a quarter at 20 yards consistantly is going to be a 1911 set up for target and will be expensive. The higher end 1911's may well have this accuracy, they may not be as cheap as your looking for.
1911's built to original specs or close to them may not have this accuracy but may be within your price range, and 1911's can be tweaked of course to give better accuracy no matter who makes them.  This also could cost some more money.  I have not a lot of experience with the higher end 1911's, all I ever had was Colt's and Springfield, the 2002 Springfield Armory mil-spec I have now is very reliable and can do 3 inches at 25 yards all day with good ammo, most times 3.5 inches with almost anything out there (this is from a rest of course) but the main thing for me is it is always reliable with any mag I use.  I had a series 80 Combat Target Colt that would do 2" at 25 yards all day along with almost anything, it was probably as accurate as anything I ever bought concerning 1911's.  1911's were not designed to shoot into a quarter at 20 yards, they do make them, and they can be worked on to do this, but it will cost you.  As far as 1911's go, I am happy to be able to bounce gallon milk jugs around consistantly at 25 yards and not have reliabilty problems, to get one that I could bounce soup cans around all day at 50 meters and feed any kind of ammo is out of my price range, this would be a special 1911 that was either made this way at the factory, or made this way by a good smith.  To top that off, to be able to feed all the different types of ammo you listed and still be reliable, is asking a lot of the 1911.  I'm not saying it can't be done of course, I'm saying it would be expensive. Just my opinion...

Jim

I get what you're saying about accuracy, and have thought about it, and decided that <5 inch groups would be ok out to 30-35 yards,  but no worse than that. (like I said, I'm not doing bullseye shooting here).

the types of ammo I listed were listed as examples of all the stuff this gun wouldn't feed.   it doesn't have to feed all types but it should feed at least one or two.  I'd prefer that it feed h/p ammo, but with the .45   ball or SWC would still get the job done.

I've been reading good reviews on the new metro-arms .45 all over the place (forums, I don't put much faith in the gun rags)  went into the local shop today, it seems to be well-made, from what I can tell without shooting that particular gun.  then I came on here, and see horror stories.   guess I'm lost here. "need" a 1911, but don't have the money for high end, and don't have the money for custom parts/work.

and the smith reamed the barrel for me because I couldn't afford a replacement barrel.

[xd-40]

I am sure I am going to get flamed but have you considered a Taurus?

I have owned two and had to change out the hammer/sheer one to get rid of the lock but it took all standard 1911 parts.

Very accurate but does not  feed hollow points well with a full mag.


Doug

I have "considered" taurus,  my dad has a taurus 9mm (the beretta clone), and a taurus millenium pro .40  they're both great, but the millenium pro .40 I got I ended up selling due to accuracy issues. (couldn't hit a barn if standing inside it).  these were not ME, but the gun, as both his and mine were run side by side with different shooters, mine consistently bad, his consistently great.     


I guess what I'm really wondering is, is there a "cheap" brand out there that is consistently performing straight out the box?  key word here is consistent.  every brand has lemons, and most don't back them up worth a crapp these days.  and every brand has great guns,  guess I'm looking to increase my odds of getting a good one over a lemon.

[Savage]

Consistency is not a common virtue in mass produced inexpensive products. It's normally obtained by good quality control, skilled builders, and quality materials. That's basically the difference in a $400 pistol and an $800 one. You don't get a Lexus for the price of a KIA.  Usually, the $400 pistols run ok. That's good enough for their market. You just pay your money and take your chances. Of the 1911s out there under $500, I'd buy the Taurus if I were in the market for a 1911 in that price range.
Savage

[Dee]

The Charles Daly is a good 1911, for the money and has a ton of potential if you want to put a couple hundred bucks in it.
If someone handed me one, I would take it, make a few "minor adjustments", and would not hesitate to fight with it, if necessary.

[teamnelson]

I've heard good things about RIA as a solid value 1911, who I know makes parts for some of the more expensive makers, and may actually be making the Charles Daly line. I couldn't be happier with my Taurus, no adjustments necessary - came "loaded" from the factory. I grabbed a Ciener .22 conversion for it too.

[oldandslow]

I'll chime in on the Taurus. I've owned one for awhile now and it shoots whatever I put in it. Not ever a problem. My grandson bought one a year or so before I did. He has had no problems either and I liked his so well is why I bought one. The only thing I have done to mine is put a set of Chip McCormack thin grips on mine. I shouldn't have spent the money as they make the grip a little small for my hand.

[gray-wolf]

I guess what I'm really wondering is, is there a "cheap" brand out there that is consistently performing straight out the box?  key word here is consistent.  every brand has lemons, and most don't back them up worth a crapp these days.  and every brand has great guns,  guess I'm looking to increase my odds of getting a good one over a lemon.

[/i]

  Sorry but the answer is no, plain and simple.  Now are there gun company's that will make your problems go away?  yes. 
  I am wondering about your accuracy statement.  I think it's a little unrealistic--why? because there are not to many $2,500 45's out there that are going to shoot into a quarter at 25 yards, and far less shooters that can. I am not saying it can't happen but they are not common.
  A 25 cent piece in this country is about .950 --that's less than an inch.  At 25 yards I would say
a decent --not great but a decent shooter should be able to do 2 to 2.5" off hand
 And at least a ragged hole at 7 yards.  You sound like you are concerned with self defense, shooting a bad guy at 25 yards(75 feet) would take some explaining. I won't go into why--you should know why.
  I am also sorry to here about your Springfield, I don't know if you are aware but Springfield has one of the best reputations in the gun industry for taking care of problems that have there name on them.
  They will pay shipping both ways and will not stop until your problem is dealt with, and many times get the pistol back to you in less that two weeks.  Good luck with some others and forget about it
if it's a Taurus, customer service is about non existent.
  Your choice for a 45 is a good one, now you have to find a good one. There are just to many people making low end 45's today to say any one of them can promise a 100% functioning pistol out of the box.
  and also to meet your other expectations.  The 45 is a simple platform but must be put together with
in Mr. Brownings specs.  I know you have a bad taste about Springfield but I would look into there 1911A1 loaded mod.  Don't matter if it's used but in good condition Go out and shoot it, if it does not perform 100% in a way you would put your life behind it.  Let them know, tell them the problem and what you expect.  I think you will be happy.  Mine will chamber empty cases, HP's, SWC's, ball and what ever.  And has not had a hi-cup in the last 1000 rounds, and that's no BS.
  Smith and Wesson also makes a nice 45 it's not a true browning platform ( outside extractor )  but a fine pistol.  Will it be trouble free out of the box.  No Crystal ball here.
  Also try to stay with a series 70 build and not a series 80.  You don't need the extra firing pin stop junk in the mix.  Kimber also, they have a Swartz type safety, I understand it is fine and many people use them, I don't know about there customer service.
  Keep it simple try for the series 70 type.  If they don't know what your talking about just leave or find someone else to speak with.
  Sorry I am not a pat people on the head kind of guy, but I will be truthful to the best of my knowledge.
Hope I have helped.
  Hang in there it will happen and when it does you will be one happy shooter.

Gray Wolf

[Lloyd Smale]

ive owned about all of the big brands. Ive had piss poor luck with springfields. Quality control really sucked with them. Ive had pretty good luck with kimbers and colts. Buddy has a taurus and it seems to run well . In my opinion the best bang for the buck on the market right now is the sti spartan. Its basicaly a trojan that isnt made in the US for 400 dollars less. Ive got a trojan and its probably my favorite 1911 of all the ones ive owned.

[williamlayton]

STI is a basically unknown except amongst the Game crowd.
They are well made and have good parts, Assembled by a small manufacturing operation in Georgetown, Texas.
They are not inexpensive but they are first class weapons--and--if you buy it thru Dillion Percision and ask them to tune it, you will be a happy camper.
they aslo make a single action revolver-or-did the last I saw.
I own two Trojans--but they won't be the last--I HOPE.
Blessings

[brizbane]

Lots of good advice here already, and I would like to add my 2 cents.

I am considering another 1911 and will probably go for a Colt ( I have always wanted the "ORIGINAL" 1911 ), then send it out to a good smith for some reliability work.  I know this would probably put it a little out of your ball park dollar wise but I think this is the best way,  as Colt being a very good base gun to start with.

[1911crazy]

If your going to build it the forged norinco frame is the tops for doing builds from the ground up.  A used norc will run you less than a new what ever then add in the build costs.

I have a bad taste for new colts and an empty wallet from them too.

Right out of the box the new Auto Ordnance army ww2 copy for $389 functions aweome so far with wolf ball ammo.

[xd-40]

  I am wondering about your accuracy statement.  I think it's a little unrealistic--why? because there are not to many $2,500 45's out there that are going to shoot into a quarter at 25 yards, and far less shooters that can. I am not saying it can't happen but they are not common.
  A 25 cent piece in this country is about .950 --that's less than an inch.  At 25 yards I would say
a decent --not great but a decent shooter should be able to do 2 to 2.5" off hand
 And at least a ragged hole at 7 yards.  You sound like you are concerned with self defense, shooting a bad guy at 25 yards(75 feet) would take some explaining. I won't go into why--you should know why.

[/quote]

I just quoted the accuracy I was getting out of my single-shot kimber bp10 II   if you look a bit farther, you'll note that I refined it.

I am concerned with self-defense, primarily, and nearly all my range work with handguns is self-defense preparation rather than bullseye.  BUT I also realize that when placed in a situation where it is necessary to defend my life, I will most likely be losing most of my accuracy, and losing fine motor control.   I figger that If I can shoot GOOD groups at 25 yards, I should be fine at 10-15.

as far as SD at longer ranges, I have already been in one situation where shooting would have been legal, and WOULD have been ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY within a split second, but the "aggressors" were about 40 yards away.   they were armed with at least one .45, one shotgun, and some sort of rifle.  I was outside my home when it began, and had no way to get inside without leaving them a clear shot at me.  had they changed their focus of aggression from whatever the hell was in that alley, to me (who they knew was there), I would have been facing an immediate threat, while armed in an insufficient manner (xd-40, accurate to 20 yards or so MAX)

luckily, I always carry my cellphone as well as my gun, and the police showed up (in force :-)  to pick up all 13 punks before things got any worse.

while I frequently carry a rifle(.44 mag lever or .308 FrankenFal)or shotgun(Mossy 500) when out and about in my neighborhood, and ALWAYS have one within reach when at home, it is not always feasible to be armed in this manner, therefore I need the best combination of accuracy and reliability that I can get.

(when this happened, I had just pulled into my driveway, locked my truck, and started toward my house, at this point, it was not feasible to be appropriately armed)

[1911crazy]

My norinco after i purchased it i installed a new $59 sportsmans guide barrel, a sportsmans guide full length guide rod kit($9 on sale) and a national match IAI barrel bushing from CDNN ($12) and the full wrap around rubber grips (CDNN $8).  It shoots 1 clover leaf per mag its that good even my kids can do it and some never shot a 1911 before. I fitted the barrel/bushing/slide.

I'm not that good with a 1911 yet but if i can put 8rds in the circle at 25yds i'm doing great.  If its any better grouping its the gun doing it.

used norinco $300
new barrel.....$59
NM bushing....$12
Full L guide kit.$9
rubber grips....$8

Total cost....$388  And it shoots much better than i can and the cycle timing is much faster too.  My point is the less we spend the better 1911 we can have and enjoy. We don't need to drop $1,000+++ on a 1911 to get a good one.  Some need to think they need to spend $2,000 thats just silly. I refuse to spend over $500 on a 1911 thats my max price that i'm willing to spend. I'm just too frugal....I like the no frills, no bells and no whistles 1911 just the plain jane that shoots just as good as the higher priced ones.

[saddlebum]

I guess I got real lucky with my Kimber "Classic" Custom,(thats what they called them when they first came out 14 or 15 years ago). Yep, mine was made in Oregon before they moved to NY. I hesitate to write this because it's hard for even me to get my mind around. The .45acp is the first auto round I reloaded. I messed around with SWC and didn't like them much. Then I found some 225gr cast Trunacated cone bullets. I put 5.5 grs of 231 under them and I was shocked at how accurate they are. I never got around to putting them on paper but.....I can hit golf balls at 50 paces at least 50% of the time from a steady rest. There I said it. Believe it or not. I have worked with revolvers for years to get the best accuracy I could out of them. But this setup beats anything I have ever come up with before. My best was a .41mag Redhawk that would shoot 1.5" at 50 meters. Only thing done to the Kimber was to file down the front site to hit point of aim, and some rosewood panels on it. Mecgar mags work good in this one. When I miss the golf ball it is so close I can't tell if I'm left or right or low from the dust up. I don't believe when I miss that it is the guns fault, it's mine. Darn things are hard to see at that distance. The company that made the bullets is out of business so I'm screwed. I just got a new LBT mold for a 225gr long flat nose. Huge meplat and Veral Smith claims it is his best .45 acp design. No complaints from customers about feeding or anything. I haven't got any loaded yet. I will crap myself if I can get the LBTs to shoot that good. With that big meplat they should be hog slayers big time.

[Savage]

Saddlebum,
Welcome!
I bought a Series I Custon Target Stainless myself when they first came out. Excellent pistol. I tried the golf ball thing, but the greens keepers took issue with it. I took the hint and moved on before SWAT could deploy. With a couple tenths of a grain under a max load of Bullseye it will easily break clays on the 50yd berm with just about any 200 gr LSWC I could load. The Missouri Bullet Company LSWC bullets are the ones I use these days. If you are in the market for cast bullets I suggest you give them a look. The LSWC bullets in 185-200 gr are the bullet of choice for bullseye shooters for a reason.
Savage

[sgtt]

I think I read in the American Rifleman about that Para USA is now offering an entry level gun.

[Blackhawker]

I want a 1911, I can't afford to drop 1000+

I want an accurate gun, won't be bullseye shooting, but want a gun that'll drill quarters at 20 yards, every time.

I want a reliable gun, something I can trust my life to.

is there something out there, that is AFFORDABLE (new or used)  that i'd be able to trust, and enjoy? hopefully full-size (4 or 5 in barrel).

thanks.
Josh

Josh, Buy a Ruger Blackhawk!   
Sorry for the joke there but I'm going through exactly what you described only I bought a cheapo model 1911 and am still paying for it.  I'm going back to revolvers and single shots!!!  Ha ha ha!!  With a Blackhawk, you can not only drill quarters at 20 yards, you can cut holes through em!   

[Savage]

I think I read in the American Rifleman about that Para USA is now offering an entry level gun.

"Para Expert" is the one you're referring to.  I have not seen one, but Paras have an off & on reputation. (In my circles anyway) To me, an entry level 1911 would be a Springfield "Loaded". The "GI" models just don't work for me due to the small sights & the absence of a rowel hammer and extended beaver tail.
Savage

[El Gringo]

Have you concidered the possibility that youre 'limp wristing' when you shoot?
I've heard that that'll cause malfunctions.

[williamlayton]

Hell, I can't see a quarter at 25 yards--how in the snot can I hit it---and if I did, somebody would have to tell me.
It would dang sure be in the lucky shot catagorie.
Not quite that bad but close--and everyday is different.

Savage
That is called shooting birdies. Some folks get ticked off at the noise in their backswing tho and that IS poor ettquite.
Blessings