what would it take to change odnr

[john-78]

how would a group of people go about getting dnr to change policy on rifle hunting.  where's the logic in using a .357 5in. pistol vs. a .357 rifle.  in my opion the rifle is way safer, in accuracy, and muzzle awareness.  there's got to be a petition or something that can be done, or has this horse already been beaten to death?

[DennyRoark]

You have to go to their open hearings and present your case, held at each area/zone headquarters and the main office in Columbus.  They post when on the DNR website.  It took how many years to legalize Dove season and Sunday hunting?  I doubt they'll ever do it 'cause some num-nutz will be out there with a 30-06 trying to get away with it.

[Catfish]

It`s not going to happen. There is just not enough open scpace to turn deer hunters loose with rifles. With the number of hunter in the field during deer season it would not make sence to increase the range of the weapons they carry, and even if that is not the intent it is what would happen. Look at what has happened to muzzle loaders with the inlines, and how much farther they shoot than the old round ball rifles.

[stimpylu32]

It`s not going to happen. There is just not enough open scpace to turn deer hunters loose with rifles. With the number of hunter in the field during deer season it would not make sence to increase the range of the weapons they carry, and even if that is not the intent it is what would happen. Look at what has happened to muzzle loaders with the inlines, and how much farther they shoot than the old round ball rifles.

That is exactly why the law makes no sence at all , my 45/70 Handi rifle with a load of 70g BP is a NO - NO , but an in-line with 100+g is just fine --- You can't fix stupid

stimpy

[john-78]

my point exactly, and dnr even calls them muzzle loading RIFLE's.  I don't know mabye i'm not seeing their point, but if you look at ever state around us, straight wall, handgun caliber rifles are legal to hunt deer with, even in PA.

[FredWT]

I have gone to the open house last year in Athens. Wrote my comments on single shot rifles using the same ammo allowed for handguns. Just keep writing your comments. Get your supporters to do it too. You can email ODNR your comments also. Indiana allows it now, I think we will get it also if we keep letting ODNR know what we want.

[DennyRoark]

my point exactly, and dnr even calls them muzzle loading RIFLE's.

They ARE, by definition, rifles.  Even my old T/C Hawken is a rifle.  It's a .45 and if it had a scope it could do anything a 30-30 could do (with a 240gr conical bullet and 100gr of BP).

Just curious, how much farther will a .44 mag shot out of a rifle than a pistol.  Talking maximum range, not max effective range.

[stimpylu32]

my point exactly, and dnr even calls them muzzle loading RIFLE's.

They ARE, by definition, rifles.  Even my old T/C Hawken is a rifle.  It's a .45 and if it had a scope it could do anything a 30-30 could do (with a 240gr conical bullet and 100gr of BP).

Just curious, how much farther will a .44 mag shot out of a rifle than a pistol.  Talking maximum range, not max effective range.

Without running the numbers , I'd guess only a few hundred feet , there are a lot of factors that come into play , the type of gun , barrel lenght , bullet weight & powder charge , you get the idea .

If you compare apples to apples - say a 14" barreled TC Contender to a 16" barreled lever gun - with the same load , your looking at MAYBE - 25 feet - if that .

A better ? might be , How does a 44 mag rifle stack up to a 12g rifled slug gun with 3 1/2" mag ammo and a 45 cal in-line with a full load & sabot's .

stimpy

[FredWT]

Right off, a lot depends if you miss the first shot.

[bobcat billy]

Your right John
It would be safer hunting with a rifle than a pistol.
The thing I dont understand is why I can only have three shells in my shot gun and six in a pistol.
Most of those pistol hunter just blast away

[SHOOTALL]

You may wish to reserch the case in Iowa where it was proven that a slug travles farther than a rifle bullet after striking a hard surface. They found (the they were the Army reserch team conducting the test) that stright walled handgun rounds from a rifle were one of the safest tools to use , better than high power rifles and slug guns . I wish I knew the name of the case but i don't remember. It started with a womans daughter who got shot with a shotgun slug in a slug gun only area . In court she ask what test they used to determine shotgun slugs were the safest tool to use . When the evidence was shown it was what has caused several states to go with the stright walled handgun round in the rifle. This might help if presented in your meetings
GOOD LUCK.

[gypsyman]

When you get that one straightened out, lets try and get steel targets ok'ed to shoot at on state range's. It's fine in Michigan. We had 2 ODNR at our gun club years ago, and our ''new'' president of the club, took their advise, and made it against club policy to use steel targets.
When several of us protested at the meeting, but the state boys knew better. Of course, neither one had ever shot steel targets. But, being college educated, and state reps, they won out with the new club pres. Of course, our club is now way down in membership, and money.
And, I can tell you from experience, if you really want to see a shooting sport with ricochet's, try real bowling pins with a .45 and hardball ammo. gypsyman

[eye shot]

It's just another form of goverment control over us. It's like three rounds in a shotgun who gets killed by the fifth round? Natural as in DNR should be the animals hunted and the land nothing else!

[bikerbeans]

Bobcat,

The Ohio regulation on deer says Handgun, straight wall cartridge, 357 or larger, with 5" barrel, so a standard 1911 45ACP with a 15 round aftermarket magazine would be legal.  I lot of what ends up as hunting regulations makes little sense.  When ODNR instituted the 3 round capacity limit for shotguns, did the accident and/or death rate during gun season change drastically?  I don't think so.  IF you have a goofball that goes deer hunting he will be dangerous with 3 rounds or six rounds in his pump gun.

BB

[john-78]

i just got on their web site to look up the crow dates, it show's season and limits for '09-'10.  i guess for '10-'11 there are no seasons or limits, so get out there and hunt what you wan, when you want.  I really would like to know who the fool is thats making odnr worse.  how can you persicute someone for not following the rules when you don't post them.

[bikerbeans]

John,

And unless it has changed, you can only hunt crows on Thursday, Friday & Saturday.  I guess crows are not responsible for crop damages on the the other 4 days of the week.

My favorite ODNR regulations are the "allowable Hunting equipment".  There are quite a few critters that you can hunt in Ohio with an "any caliber" centerfire rifle.  458 Winchester for red squirrel anyone?  There are also several species that you can hunt with a longbow but not a crossbow.

BB

[SHOOTALL]

Bikerbeans the 3 round limit was federal for duck and goose . Many states just used it for everything to make it easy to check. Va. just allowed us to use un plugged guns for everything else a couple years go.

[bikerbeans]

Shootall,

10-4 on the plugged waterfowl shotgun, but Ohio did not have a magazine limit for shotguns during deer season until I believe 1997.   I guess I don't understand why there is a magazine limit for any hunting as the bag limits restrict what you are supposed to harvest.  Maybe just another way for the game warden to hand out citations to increase revenue?   I mean I don't think a magazine limit does anything to make a hunter safer or to prevent a poacher from legal taking.

BB

[SHOOTALL]

Its in a treaty with Canada and Mexico to limit shells in the gun. Has little to do with safety but it stops flock shooting . That was before they could film ya hunting . Seems with the eye in the sky  they could do away with many laws to force morals on us.

[bikerbeans]

Love it, USA ruled by the law of other nations. 

[john-78]

I wonder if anyone at odnr can count higher than 3?


o.k. i feel better, i'll quit picking on poor ol' odnr.

[walmpus]

I have always wanted to go to one of the ODNR meetings I just have never made it there. I know alot of hunters (including myself) who are so fed up that they just do thier own thing. The rifle subject is a touchy one for me as well. I moved to Ohio in 1988 from a state that allowed rifles. I just use my muzzleloader now. This is what kills me and makes NO sense so if someone can clairify please feel free to do so. If you have a private hunting ranch or you hunt on a private game ranch in Ohio, who ever pays to hunt on your ranch can use a rifle. You can also use a rifle to predator hunt coyetes, pigs, and ground hogs, crows, ect........But not for deer hunting. No how in the &(*^$% does that even make sense?

I know during firearms season there is always the most amount of hunters in the woods, but I have to say that in the last 10 years where we hunt in the heart of southern ohio, I can honestly say that our hunting group hasnt ran across a dozen people during gun season, extended weekend, and muzzleloader season. So the threat of shooting someone far away is really low.

Also, one of my muzzleloaders is an in-line .45 so I can reach out and touch something at 200 yards without a problem...........again.........what gives? I have become so frustrated that I have started hunting other states. And the sad part is that I can hunt as a non-resident in other states for the same price it costs me to get my license and all of my tags here in Ohio.

wcb

[TheCoachZed]

Love it, USA ruled by the law of other nations. 

Nope. We were allowed to use shotguns with 5 shots in Canada until the 1970s, I think, then the US complained about us shooting all "your ducks" (kind of ironic, since they live here half the year). Then, both countries got together and signed an international treaty restricting the shooting of migratory birds.

So, technically, we are marching to the tune of your drum. 

[SHOOTALL]

A true story , years ago when we were forced to hunt with 3 shells for everything hunted with a shotgun . We were on a deer stand way back off the public road. We had finished a hunt and were talking. Well ya could see for a long distance across a field that the road skirted . We see the game warden comming . The road goes back in the woods and out of site before arriving where we were. The reg. game warden and a young new warden get out and check lic. Then the young warden ask if he should check plugs in the guns . The old warden looks around and says naw from the looks of that willow tree they all cut one while we were comming thru. the woods 

[john-78]

the new reg.'s are out (finally) nothing changed for deer gun season.  mabye all the survey stuff about making it longer will happen next year  

[Empty Quiver]

I'm going to guess the physical number of hunters in the woods during shotgun season is the deciding factor. When you couple this with ignorance and political pressures ( Lordy, sakes congressman can you believe they let them traipse about with RIFLES?, daddy said he only needed a rifle to kill Germans) , you have your answer.

Logic has little to do with govermental decision making. The ML and pistol seasons are there to extend hunting opportunities, and season length. If logic were truely applied SABOT shotgun ammo would be outlawed as well as rifled tubes, ML would be flintlock or perhaps sidelock only, and no optical sights.

 The weapons manufacturers exploited the new seasons by optimizing every aspect.  They have turned primative weaons season into specialized weapons season, carefully travelling through the legal loopholes to protect the market share they developed.

Indiana has laws similar to what you are wanting, I would try to get every stat available from their real world experience. Brag up the traditional lever gun, show lots of the old photo's pointing out those BPC rifles. The military study on slug vs bullets is very interesting and good stuff for argueing the merits of rifle hunts.

Good Luck