Author Topic: Why I am a socialist at heart (Read 1059 times)

Questor · « **on:** January 23, 2010, 05:02:29 AM »

I believe in social safety nets and long vacations. I believe in government sponsored target shooting. I believe that a population that can win bass tournaments makes for a strong society. The problem is that the money has to come from somewhere and if we're not productive now, then in time there will be no USA with the social safety nets. Drat! It seems like a good idea. Kind of like a the perpetual motion machine.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2010, 06:44:35 AM »

i could be tempted to change my way of thinking ...if obama would give me free ammo for all my guns......

blind ear · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2010, 09:42:18 AM »

Any type of government can be good if it is just and fair. The ruleing power and how that power is maintained is the dynamic that moves toward ruin if there is no control by all of the productive segments. Power gravitates toward more power and it buys it's way there with small offerings while we ignore the process.

Keeping it fair and just is the battle. We have proven so far that we arn't smart enough to maintain the fair and just part. The brain trusts that plan the strategy of power has an agenda with goals that they attain. The seekers of power are like cancer, they never rest. They arn't individuals, they are a mass. Voters as individuals are small.

The process has it's own life. More power/money is its only needed fuel and engine. It is a perpetual motion machine.

eddie

sagegrouse715 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2010, 09:57:24 AM »

Questor:

Which social safety nets do you not believe in? Social security for the elderly? SS for dependents? Disability SS? Medicare? Medicaid? Unempoyment benefits? Vet hospitals? Tricare? Free and reduced school lunches? Low income elderly housing? Meals on wheels for the elderly? Paying for nursing home care? Food stamps?

I agree we can't spend more than we can afford or we break the bank. And we our national debt is too great. Which one's should be eliminated?

45-70.gov · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2010, 11:04:59 AM »

Quote from: Questor on January 23, 2010, 05:02:29 AM

I believe in social safety nets and long vacations. I believe in government sponsored target shooting. I believe that a population that can win bass tournaments makes for a strong society. The problem is that the money has to come from somewhere and if we're not productive now, then in time there will be no USA with the social safety nets. Drat! It seems like a good idea. Kind of like a the perpetual motion machine.

why does the safey net HAVE to come from some thing as inefficient as government??

what is wrong with you helping those you want to?
i help who i want to if i wan to?

like it is government takes hough threat of violence o help others
then miss-manages 90%

so only 10% of what is TAKEN actually is for he safey net

DID YOU KNOW YOUR TAX MONEY IS ENABLING DRUG ADDICTS??

sagegrouse715 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2010, 11:59:08 AM »

True, govenment has its inefficiencies. But I am glad Enron, Worldcom, General Motors, AIG, and Citicorp weren't made the providers.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2010, 01:51:47 PM »

The early church was socialist at heart. Jesus would be friendly toward socialists.

Oops.

sagegrouse715 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2010, 02:21:18 PM »

I think Jesus accepts all of God's children regardless of their political persuasion.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2010, 02:25:25 PM »

Quote from: sagegrouse715 on January 23, 2010, 02:21:18 PM

I think Jesus accepts all of God's children regardless of their political persuasion.

Yes, I think so, too. Can I get an amen on that?

hello? helloooooooooooo?

sagegrouse715 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2010, 02:45:01 PM »

Amen, Amen, Amen!!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2010, 03:07:53 PM »

Quote from: yellowtail3 on January 23, 2010, 01:51:47 PM

The early church was socialist at heart. Jesus would be friendly toward socialists.

Oops.

i am not religious so maybe i shouldn't comment

but a church helps folks with donated money given up be choice
a church is small and the contributer has some say so or can go to another church

i socialist TAKES what it wants under threat of violence
and leaves you no choice

that to me is the main difference between
generosity and socialism

sagegrouse715 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2010, 04:15:47 PM »

I had a nephew that just spent 6 months in Sweden. He didn't say anything about people being threatened with violence because of their socialism. In fact, he said Stockholm was much safer than American cities.

briarpatch · « **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2010, 04:51:46 PM »

sagegrouse715 If our socialist leaning government had not got involved or had their hands in them.
Enron, worldcom, AIG, General Motors and Citi Corp would be productive companies.
If Stockholm with its Socialism is safe. Moscow must be like a baby crib. Bejing would be the place we all aspire to.
I cannot understand why we have to build walls to keep people out and the socialist build walls to keep people in.
I guess to keep them safe.
Your view of socialism is from a distance. Something to yearn for without knowledge of why. An experment if you will.
It has a magnatism that pulls you. You touch it and like the feel. All you need now is to embrace it, wrap yourself in it. (An estimated 100 million in the 20th century did or were drug into it. They now fill mass graves or lie in a forest unknown to man.)
If you are one of the elite you will love it. If not, you will hoe.
I would suggest before you curse this country or change it to a socialist one, you read history.True History or go to Venezuela it is new to socialism and you can watch the growth or decline. And those socialist programs you asked about doing away with. All of them. They were not needed before progressive income tax and would not be needed now without it.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2010, 04:56:41 PM »

Quote from: sagegrouse715 on January 23, 2010, 04:15:47 PM

I had a nephew that just spent 6 months in Sweden. He didn't say anything about people being threatened with violence because of their socialism. In fact, he said Stockholm was much safer than American cities.

what happens if you don't pay your taxes

people with guns take your stuff or they take you

governments do that
most churches don't

not saying we need no taxes
just not so much tax so we have some left to help the ones we see fit to help

sagegrouse715 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2010, 06:25:01 PM »

Briarpatch:

Enron, Worldcom etc... did not go down because of the government. All these companies went down because of laissez faire capitalism. I believe that the free enterprise system is the best economic system that has been invented to date. But unregulated free markets have historically proven to periodically run amoke because of individual greed. Kenny Lay lied to the investors. As did Bernie Ebers, and Bernie Madoff.

I am not advocating socialism for America. However, socialism and communist dicatators are not one and the same. And no one puts walls around Sweden to keep people in. My view of socialism may be from a distance but I am looking from the same distance you are. Let's face it, we have had many socialized programs in America for years. The military is government run, public libraries etc... I have never thought our military is poorly run. Contrary to what you say socialism doesn't benefit the elite but "spreads the wealth" to more people. A term some people find objectional. But pure socialism has it own ills too. Nothing is a perfect system. Ours has historically proven the best. It has motivated and rewarded individual achievement. Unfortunately, it has not been able to eliminate poverty.

If you oppose all those govenment program, than please don't accept any of their benefits.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2010, 06:32:52 PM »

does individual freedom enter your thoughts

socialism says

''be one of us or else''

briarpatch · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2010, 08:00:07 PM »

Whose wealth are we spreading? Is it just, to take from the man that will work and give it to the man that wont. To pick one up we must knock 10 down. Remember we have to pay for the corruption in each socialist program. By its very being it is corrupt.
The examples you gave are not a good choise. Under the Constitution the republic as intended (not socialism) must provide a military . Under a republic the military is used for defence and protection of Country. The Military is by and of the people.
Under socialism the military is for the suppression of the people. They are the control. It is made up with people but not of the people.
As far as a public library, they are not required under the Constitution. We dont need them and if we got rid of them tomorrow, private donors would have them built and they would be more efficient. Out of a city of 50,000 how many people use the public library?
I urge you to go to the public library and get all the books authored by Karl Marx and read them. In them you will see the little programs you champion.
For those that want you to be socialist, they must start small. Just a program there and little one here. Soon it will give you all the misery it has given millions.
And no I have not just seen it from a distance. If you will open your eyes it just a few feet away.

Some years ago I was asked to interview a man from Poland. He was the no. 2 man in the Fiat plant in one of the cities of Poland. Gdansk I believe.
In the 1980’s he had joined the movement for freedom with Lech Walesa. Laying everthing on the line he had been imprisoned and slated for execution.
The movement began to build and those in charge thought it best to expel him from Poland than have him become a martyr.
Over the coarse of about 2 months we received about 10 men from there. Their stories carried the full impact of socialism.

sagegrouse715 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2010, 03:59:55 AM »

Poland = communism. Check your definitions. Read your history. Karl Marx = communist.

Public libraries were Ben Franklin's idea. One of the first thing Hitler did was burn books. Control knowledge and you control minds. Let's take access to knowledge away from the poor so they can be more easily manipulated. Allow the people to only hear one side of the story. We have private libraries already. They are called Barnes & Nobles.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2010, 04:22:37 AM »

Quote from: sagegrouse715 on January 24, 2010, 03:59:55 AM

Poland = communism. Check your definitions. Read your history. Karl Marx = communist.

Public libraries were Ben Franklin's idea. One of the first thing Hitler did was burn books. Control knowledge and you control minds. Let's take access to knowledge away from the poor so they can be more easily manipulated. Allow the people to only hear one side of the story. We have private libraries already. They are called Barnes & Nobles.

control knowledge
control schools
control minds
control populations

socialism and its cousin communism
it is all about control

ever since there as been man
some one has tried to control them all

now is no different than the past......since you mentioned history

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2010, 07:30:49 AM »

Under capitalism, man is exploited by man.

Under socialism, it's the exact opposite!!!

jimster · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2010, 07:52:50 AM »

Some think there is not enough money in taxes to accomplish basic needs. Hogwash, there is gobs of money, it's where it's going and what they do with it and where they funnel it. 2.6 trillion they take from us every 12 months, enough money has never been the problem. The stim package for example funnled 8.5 billion to ACORN...that right there is enough to give a whole lot of people something they need, and that is just a small tip of the iceberg on where our money has been going for decades. To say there is not enough money to take care of people is false and makes everyone scramble to think of all kinds of schemes to find more money, which the only money there is is in the people's pockets. All they ever had to do was stop the corruption and there is plenty of money around. Basically they have it set up so none of your money going to any government actually gets where it's going...it's a racket...and of course it would be, where there is lot's of money there is always corruption...and 2.6 trillion is a whole lot of corruption.

The root problem needs to be addressed and all this falsehood of running out of money needs to stop, the feds are rolling in cash, they are just bad keepers of it. This is turning into more of a revolt against corruption.

Far as capitialism goes, it feeds socialism, there is no other money than what comes from capitialism, the socalists would be smart to make good friends with the capitalists if they were smart...it's the only thing that can feed them. You can't force people to stay in business...yet anyway.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2010, 07:55:47 AM »

yep under socialism .. man is exploited by man..
as to christ being friend of socialist.. please post a list of socialist countries who think god or jesus are anything other than antiquated ideas..even where its allowed, its viewed as just placating the masses..
while they fight over positions of power..slim
ps unfortunately many capitalist think the same..but im a capitalist that don t think the same.
its not a perfect system.. but it ll have to do until the boss finally decides to take charge.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #22 on:** January 24, 2010, 09:09:09 AM »

her is an organization that

redistributes wealth that is SEIZED by the government

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK3vmcA4hKc

WOW I WANT MY MONEY TO BE HANDLED BY THEM

DON'T FORGE OBAMA WAS THEIR LAWYER

OBAMA WAS A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER

OBAMA IS A SOCIALIST

sagegrouse715 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 24, 2010, 09:18:04 AM »

Our consitution wrote some aspects of socialism into our Constitution by giving the Federal government the power to establish an armed force( rather than just state militias) and the postal system.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it doesn't say anything about establishing capitalism as our ecnomic system. Our government and British heritage just allowed us to have this system. And the Bill of Rights insure us our individual rights to do what is not directly given to the Federal government.

If you totally want to eradicate all aspects of socialism from American society, that means no national parks, no national forests and no BLM land. Sell off battlefields and historical sites. Let the highest bidder own Bunker Hill. It would be a great site for a new WalMart. Let's just have private ownership. Let's sell it all off so the citizens don't have to be taxed to maintain it. I am sure Ted Turner would be glad to buy Yellowstone Park or all the BLM land in Montana. Or if not him, some wealthy Hollywood type that is anti-hunting. This will get government off my back so I don't have to pay taxes. Let the estremely wealthy put up no trespassing signs and I can stay on my 10 acres to do all my hunting.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #24 on:** January 24, 2010, 09:34:35 AM »

Quote from: sagegrouse715 on January 24, 2010, 09:18:04 AM

Our consitution wrote some aspects of socialism into our Constitution by giving the Federal government the power to establish an armed force( rather than just state militias) and the postal system.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it doesn't say anything about establishing capitalism as our ecnomic system. Our government and British heritage just allowed us to have this system. And the Bill of Rights insure us our individual rights to do what is not directly given to the Federal government.

If you totally want to eradicate all aspects of socialism from American society, that means no national parks, no national forests and no BLM land. Sell off battlefields and historical sites. Let the highest bidder own Bunker Hill. It would be a great site for a new WalMart. Let's just have private ownership. Let's sell it all off so the citizens don't have to be taxed to maintain it. I am sure Ted Turner would be glad to buy Yellowstone Park or all the BLM land in Montana. Or if not him, some wealthy Hollywood type that is anti-hunting. This will get government off my back so I don't have to pay taxes. Let the estremely wealthy put up no trespassing signs and I can stay on my 10 acres to do all my hunting.

no one has suggested that

just tell me how much bigger you want the government to get

i will tell you i want i about a quarter the size i is now

here is more on the people you want to empower

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6tRrWBDzAg&feature=related

besides you don't fill out a financial statement to see if your poor enough to qualify

when you drive down the road, go to a park, enjoy freedom

try that at the health department

jimster · « **Reply #25 on:** January 24, 2010, 11:00:22 AM »

"but it doesn't say anything about establishing capitalism as our ecnomic system"

Maybe they figured it was a no brainer that the only way any money at all could be generated is by capitalism? Money only comes from one place, and it ain't socialism...they USE money from capitialism and when it's gone it's gone. I said already, they can't make capitialism stay per law, they can shut down, move out, whatever they want or have to do, they do not have to exist at all...and I'll say it again, socialism should be kissing the butts of capitialism, because that is all there is to generate money, that socialism needs to have confiscated and given to them. Michigan already shut down many social programs, and it was not by law...it was because...WE ARE OUT OF MONEY THAT CAN BE TAXED. Socialism dies by itself when capitialism shrinks.
You would think someone would pick up on this simple equation. Capitalism = money. socialism = capitalism's money. Capitalism gets beat up, socialism gets a broken arm. How hard is this?

There is no economic system without capitalism. Unless someone else knows another place where money is generated. I have never actually heard any conservative or level headed person say they want to eradicate all socialism from society...that is usually used as a comeback when we mention socialists are out of control and need to be reigned in. Or if we mention we are taxed too much...they will come back with the old..."oh so you don't want to pay any taxes at all huh" and list all the things we would not have.

Socialism needs to remember where their money comes from....here in Michigan, I think some got the point already. They cleaned the capitalists out and wound up shutting down their social programs. Much more to come here, they are now rolling back government jobs and benifits....otherwise the schools shut down next.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #26 on:** January 24, 2010, 11:05:48 AM »

can't let them shut down the indoctrination centers

jimster · « **Reply #27 on:** January 24, 2010, 11:19:59 AM »

I also hope if the banks get a "punishment tax" on them they go to the high courts as well, while we have 5 judges in a consitutional mood. Some people think the banks are evil too...but I doubt the feds have a constitutional leg to stand on as taxes can't be used for punishment either.

DDZ · « **Reply #28 on:** January 24, 2010, 12:39:00 PM »

Quote from: jimster on January 24, 2010, 11:00:22 AM

"but it doesn't say anything about establishing capitalism as our ecnomic system"

Maybe they figured it was a no brainer that the only way any money at all could be generated is by capitalism? Money only comes from one place, and it ain't socialism...they USE money from capitialism and when it's gone it's gone. I said already, they can't make capitialism stay per law, they can shut down, move out, whatever they want or have to do, they do not have to exist at all...and I'll say it again, socialism should be kissing the butts of capitialism, because that is all there is to generate money, that socialism needs to have confiscated and given to them. Michigan already shut down many social programs, and it was not by law...it was because...WE ARE OUT OF MONEY THAT CAN BE TAXED. Socialism dies by itself when capitialism shrinks.
You would think someone would pick up on this simple equation. Capitalism = money. socialism = capitalism's money. Capitalism gets beat up, socialism gets a broken arm. How hard is this?

There is no economic system without capitalism. Unless someone else knows another place where money is generated. I have never actually heard any conservative or level headed person say they want to eradicate all socialism from society...that is usually used as a comeback when we mention socialists are out of control and need to be reigned in. Or if we mention we are taxed too much...they will come back with the old..."oh so you don't want to pay any taxes at all huh" and list all the things we would not have.

Socialism needs to remember where their money comes from....here in Michigan, I think some got the point already. They cleaned the capitalists out and wound up shutting down their social programs. Much more to come here, they are now rolling back government jobs and benifits....otherwise the schools shut down next.

Right on Jimster!
I don't know where some people think the socialist give away money comes from. Look at how rich America is. It didn't get this way from socialist ideas.

Does anyone really think that the postal service couldn't be run better and more efficient with a private entity running it?

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money, and when you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #29 on:** January 24, 2010, 01:03:55 PM »

It can be a perplexing situation for some of us. When I started my working career I was told I had to pay into Social security. That may be good or bad, depending on your situation. They say you should look at it like an insurance policy. It provides financial protection should you become unable to work. If you make it to retirement age you start drawing a check every month. Could I have done better investing that money myself? Probably, but I didn't have a choice. So I paid into the system for 40 years. Now I am drawing Social Security. Some of you say I should now refuse to take any money (like it was your money alone). Well K... M. A.. comes to mind. I was forced to pay into, now I draw out of it. Sometimes when something is started it is very hard to know where to stop it. You guys can do away with it after I'm dead, if you wish.