Paranoia/Maybe this belongs in the Gunsmithing Forum...

[KeepTryin]

Hey all, gotta question here. I have gotten interested in reloading lately, have had lots of help from the folks on here and I appreciate it! Since I've been reading up on reloading (I haven't actually loaded any ammo yet, much less tried it) I have found out about the deal with bolt pressure due to having oil in a chamber or residual lube on cases. My net surfing has turned up conflicting info on this. I've seen bolt face pressure at 10% greater if you have any oil in a chamber, to OMG it's catastrophic, to Varmint Al's site (he seems pretty scientific) where his conclusion is that chamber finish and not lube are the factor, etc... All this of course comes from the fact that you want your brass to 'grab' the chamber and not move back against the bolt so much, etc...

My question is, I have a Wally World special synthetic ADL 700 that I have never shot anything but factory ammo through, but it occurs to me that I probably, like many people, have gone to the range with traces or possibly a thin film of lube in my chamber. I usually run a patch with Hoppes 9 on it prior to shooting/sighting in, or maybe a boresnake, but maybe I always haven't. I haven't made a practice of cleaning my chamber with alchohol or brake cleaner or anything like that until I started reading up on this stuff. (I will from now on, bet on it) This is not to say that I've been shooting my 30/06 with oil running out of the barrel or anything like that. But I've probably shot it with some residual lube in the chamber. I've seen rusty guns before and try to avoid it... I've never had a sticky bolt or hard to extract scenarios except for my milsurp Mosin Nagants which is another story, but I'm not planning on handloading for those just yet. My Remmie has always shot/cycled perfectly and quite accurately.

ANYWAY, I had the Remington apart today and was looking carefully at the lugs and bolt face and it looks like there is more or less even wear marks on both lugs (it's one of the parkerized black ones so it's easy to tell) but I can't see anything seriously amiss. I haven't shot that thing a whole lot, probably a couple hundred rounds tops. Then I start thinking I should get it headspaced and looked over before I start shooting reloads through it, which are going to be minimum loads, nothing crazy, just for plinking/hunting.

Perhaps I am overthinking this, as I am prone to that sort of thing... I spent most of my early life shotgunning for grouse and small game with .22's and didn't have a lot to do with centerfire rifles until the last decade when I moved to the sticks and got into deer hunting seriously.

For what it's worth, Lee's 2nd manual says be persnickety about getting all residual lube off cases if your shooting 'max' loads... I haven't and don't plan to.

What do you all think? Sorry for the rambling post. 'Tryin' not to end up with a bolt in my face, ya know?

I've never heard anything about lube and bolt pressure until I started reading a bunch about reloading...

[stimpylu32]

KT

Its not as much an overall pressure issue as it is a case thrust issue  As the round is fired in the chamber , it expands and spreads the pressure evenly causing the case to form to the chamber .

What happens with lube in the chamber is that the case is pushed back by the pressure putting excessive thrust on the bolt face , not evenly like it should . This will also lead to excess case stretch at the shoulder , requiring the case's to be over worked during Re-sizing = shorter case life .

stimpy

[Luckyducker]

I haven't even thought about this issue before reading this post.  I have made up handloads in a myriad of different cartridges with some being top end of the pressure charts.  Now, I don't leave my brass greasy or wet but I sure don't wipe them down with solvent, without any adverse effect on my brass or my firearms.  I think this subject is on the order of a solution in search of a problem.  But this is just MHO.

[roper]

Here an article  that touchs on the subject of oil in the chamber

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm

[Graybeard]

I believe you are over thinking it personally and perhaps combined with that have developed some bad habits as well.

How the heck is all that oil getting there to begin with? That's why I suspect bad habits. Unless you are putting a rifle away for long term storage what the heck is oil doing in there? It sure ain't gonna be found in any rifle of mine. Too many folks I think oil up their barrels after shooting or cleaning or looking at their rifle or whatever else they might do with them. BAD HABIT in my opinion.

I clean my rifle barrels when needed and no more often. I just don't put oil down the barrel and certainly not in the chamber. I do after cleaning take an over size patch and clean out the chamber area and have already before then run a couple of dry clean patches down the bore.

To me that's plenty to remove any excess stuff that might be in there. Running Hoppe's in the chamber prior to firing is only asking for trouble in my opinion.

Clean and dry is the way the chamber should be but using alcohol or acetone to get there is kinda over kill in my opinion unless you've first messed up and oiled it unnecessarily to begin with.

[KeepTryin]

That's interesting Roper. This part interested me:

Shear Strength

Unless a cartridge case undergoes a complete head separation upon firing, the side walls of the brass case will stick against the chamber walls. Under some circumstances they may absorb as much as half the thrust. Case walls or a chamber that are oily will reduce this friction. So the action designer will not take this aspect into consideration when designing the lugs to more closely simulate a complete case head failure.

If I'm not mistaken, that means that bolt designers take the case gripping the chamber as a "bonus" for lowering pressures but don't really design stuff to rely on it. I think.

[KeepTryin]

GB thanks for the input. When I say I run a patch of Hoppes 9 through a barrel prior to shooting, I do run a dry one through after as well and then shoot. But yeah, I do run a lightly oiled patch through the barrel and chamber from the breech prior to storage, I wasn't aware that was unusual or bad practice. I believe both my Rem and Marlin manuals tell you to do just that, and then of course remove any oil before shooting... which got me thinking about things after reading all this reloading stuff...like am I cleaning my chamber up as much as I should prior to shooting? What do most folks do? I mean, probably 90+% percent of the people I know shoot a gun, clean a gun, oil it, probably store it muzzle up and then go sight it in/test it next year without giving things a second thought. Although they aren't shooting very much, just twice a year I suppose...and likely not hot loads, something I don't plan on doing either.

Are you storing your barrels for lengths of time bone-dry and unoiled?

Of course you're right that it's entirely possible I am over-thinking this! Quiet weekend around here, too much time to worry about non-issues maybe!

[1sourdough]

 I store my guns after running a 'modestly' oiled patched down the bore, & a lightly oiled cloth over other metal surfaces. I have some guns I have not shot in 10-15 yrs. When it comes time to shoot or sight-in I di a dry patch down the bore 1st. I don't do as much for the guns I routinely use.

[Graybeard]

Where I live the humidity runs from 75% to 100% most of the year and it's a whole lot closer to 100% most of the time than to that lower number.

As I said I clean my barrels WHEN THEY NEED IT and that's rarely. I learn the guns when I begin shooting them to develop loads for them. I learn how well they shoot and generally how many rounds it takes to foul them to the point of accuracy loss. But I do not count rounds I just keep an eye on their accuracy level and when/if that accuracy drops off I know it's time to remove the copper fouling from them. I do that then run 2-3 dry patches thru the bore and then take a very oversize patch on a slotted tip on a short rod and clean out the chamber area to remove any contamination that might have gotten in there while cleaning.

I do that even tho I use a bore guide that fits up at least part way into the chamber area to keep the rod straight in the bore and to minimize fluids getting into the chamber.

The only time I consider putting oil in that bore is if I know I'll not be shooting that gun for a few years. That's pretty much never cuz if I'm not gonna shoot it I'm likely not gonna have it several years from now. I'm not a collector I'm a shooter and hunter and if I'm not gonna use it then I let someone else own it.

I've never had rust in the barrel or chamber from this practice yet and I've been doing it this way longer than a whole pile of folks on this site have been around this earth. It's just my way of doing things. I'm a basically lazy rascal and see no need to do things as busy work and that's what cleaning your barrel after every use is and so is oiling it in my opinion.

Additionally if you're one of those clean after every firing types you'll never know the true accuracy your barrel can deliver as no barrel or darn few of them at least do their best perfectly clean. They pretty much all want a certain level of fouling to begin shooting their best. Once that's reached they will then continue to shoot well for some number of shots before accuracy falls off. Some do well right up to a point where it falls off sharply and some gradually get worse until you finally notice it. Ya just need to shoot enough to know what your barrels and your rifles prefer.

I cannot speak to what folks who shoot twice a year should do. I guess my recommendation would be to take up golf or some other hobby as clearly they are not gun types and are likely to hurt themselves due to their lack of familarity with firearms.

[possum6]

KeepTryin, sounds like you are doing the same thing I done, while waiting on my first reloading products, thought I would never get them because everything was out of stock ; it was around Christmas, I had plenty of time to read up on reloading. The stuff that stuck in my head was the so-called " dangerous " reads. You are over-thinking the process. Just wait until you have that " first " cartridge in your firearm and sitting at the bench getting ready to pull the trigger, that's when you really start " THINKING "