Repeal NAFTA??

[littlecanoe]

In my area of the country, outsourcing has drastically impacted the local economy.
Lost textile jobs were not replaced with equal paying jobs.

Other areas of the country have been hammered in the same way.
The furniture industry in NC is an example.

Besides improved product quality, what would be the wide sweeping effects of NAFTA repeal?

Additionally, are we still a big enough market that tariffs would help? or would that complicate?

[magooch]

Yeah, repeal NAFTA and you'll probably finish off what's left of our economy.  Jobs were leaving this country long before NAFTA came along.  Put a tariff on foreign made goods and the countries we trade with will reciprocate.  The net result would be that our cost of living would sky rocket.  The days are gone when we could be self sufficient unless you are willing to retreat to a much, much simpler existance.

[Datil]

 I tyink you are right. NAFTA is a big No gooder.  IMOP!!!!!!
 Datil

[alsaqr]

Yep, NAFTA is not good for the US.  Worse yet is the importation of all that cheap junk from communist China.  We are paying for our own destruction at the hands of the red Chinese army every time we buy their cheap crap.   

[Questor]

Um. Where to start with some of these misconceptions?!? NAFTA is a net economic benefit to the US. Chinese manufacturing is only a small portion of the value of products produced, importation is where the greatest benefits of a product are realized. Yes, there is cheap junk manufactured in China, but Chinese manufactured goods manufactured to suitable price points are on par for quality with goods manufactured anywhere in the world, and cost less for the consumer. There is a lot of manufacturing in the US, and a lot of export from the US. However, much of the manufacturing in the US does not required people to do the work.

It's important to realize that low-skill manufacturing jobs have left the US, not manufacturing itself.

[gwhilikerz]

Kill Nafta, build a fence, charge American companies that manufacture overseas a tariff to bring their products in. Large tariffs and taxes for imports. Individuals should Buy American or do without. You can't sell your product overseas because of the retaliatory tariffs and embargoes? Produce for American consumers and let the world do without your product. If you need something import it....from another State.

[blind ear]

The less the western hemisphere (10 % of the worlds population) consumes, the more we will be shut out. The eastern hemisphere (90 % of the worlds population) will determine that. Corporate consumption will migrate with ecconomic efficency. Personal consumption will follow spending power based on earnings. How many jobs or businesses will we have? Our pie will get smaller either way based on consumer dollars, national ecconomic power, population numbers and other things.

We have always been on top by having the "Biggest Stick". That is changeing and the coorporations are aiding it through "efficency". Corporations have no national loyalty and the more laws are changed to protect them the less national loyalty they will have. Coorporations that fought each other in WWII are co-mingled today.

According to Alvin Toffler, in the book "Power Shift", in the future, coorporations are likely to be the fosters of armies and nationalism. That book was written in the 70s I think (edit: Power Shift, 1990; Furure Shock, 1970) and a lot of the things it predicted have already passed. It is not a one scenario play, it offers options.

Alvin Toffler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Toffler

eddie

[littlecanoe]

Guys, Thanks for the responses.  I don't have time to read a book right now and want some perspective on this issue.

What I'm hearing:

1.  There was a shift in consumption based on previously poor markets opening as those countries developed.

2.  Because of this shift, American corporations shifted to compete, not only in the American market but also the world market.

3.  Because of the shift noted in 2, they had to have a cheaper product world wide.

What is the answer in my area of the world?  I've seen no replacement of those textile jobs that people in my area held.  They weren't getting rich but were making a decent living.

Was the issue in part taxation by American government?  Was it corporate greed?

Was it a combination of all of the above? 

[Questor]

littlecanoe:

The reality is that textiles are made on earth, not just in your home state. Whoever can make them better and cheaper will sell the textiles. The only thing that keeps the American textile business alive at all is a bunch of laws that favor the American textile industry. These laws are 50 to 80 years out of date because American companies that sell textile products do so with excellent profits. It just happens that the cloth is made abroad.

[JBlk]

Leave NAFTA alone and let the corporations keep moving jobs out of the country.But impose a seventy percent tax on any of their products that are produced outside of the country that they want to bring back in to sell.

[gwhilikerz]

Leave NAFTA alone and let the corporations keep moving jobs out of the country.But impose a seventy percent tax on any of their products that are produced outside of the country that they want to bring back in to sell.

There you go!

[magooch]

The last time the US got over protective about imports, we got the Great Depression.  Our best economies occur when there is lots of trade.  Yes, it should be fair as well as free (minimal tarrifs) and that should be the goal.  It isn't always attainable, but there is no turning to protectionism.  That would lead to total failure.

The best course for the United States is to compete and one way for that to happen is for government to quit treating our industries like they are the enemy.  The industry that I worked in was constantly under attack by bureauocrats and agencies that wanted to restrict, assess fines, levy taxes and put up roadblocks to anything and everything they could.

As example: The company wanted to build a new bleach plant, so they had to get a permit from the state.  The state required that certain standards had to be met, but the state could never settle on a set of standards that they would stick with.  Everytime the engineering would get under way, the state would make changes.  The end result was that the company just gave up, because they realized that the state would never stop moving the goal posts.

[Questor]

Magooch:

The bleach example is a common one. Here are a couple of others:

Guitar makers in New York City cannot paint their guitars. They have to send them to another state, or sometimes out of the country, to be finished. This is because it's almost impossible to get a "finishing license" in NYC.

The recent "buy American" edicts from Washington specified that steel used in GM and Chrysler auto manufacturing had to be made in the US. Unfortunately this eliminated a lot of US steel companies because the actual melting is performed abroad. Rolling the steel into usable material is done here. No California steel companies were eligible under these conditions.

The broader thing is that enterprising people wanting to produce a product here just don't want all of the hassles related to labor laws, so they use machines instead.

[SHOOTALL]

I agree it should be dropped , but at a School in NC. a year ago we were told the cotton mills were starting up as world pricing was making it profitable once more .

[Questor]

And in a few years the NC cotton factories will close again. That's OK for temporary work and a class of migrant factory workers but it doesn't do NC any good in the long run. It's not just world prices, it US law that makes it worthwhile to make a little money at this periodically.

[SHOOTALL]

If thats true 100% why can't all thread rod be made off shore ? All the rod we get is domestic and always has been . Suppliers say they can beat our price .