Author Topic: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp  (Read 853 times)

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Offline teamnelson

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Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« on: January 28, 2010, 07:51:03 AM »
An atheist organization is blasting the U.S. Postal Service for its plan to honor Mother Teresa with a commemorative stamp, saying it violates postal regulations against honoring "individuals whose principal achievements are associated with religious undertakings."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584165,00.html

hmmm ... let's see, her Nobel Peace Prize for Human-itarian work is a religious undertaking? Its easy for me to parse this out; religious undertaking would be like translating scriptures, or reforming doctrine ... things that are strictly a matter of religion. But devoting one's life to the care of the impoverished BECAUSE of one's faith is a strictly human effort.

Did they also blast the USPS for stamps of Martin Luther King, who exploited his ordination, and cited religious reasons for the civil rights movement?
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Offline Dee

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2010, 07:59:14 AM »
To paraphrase Mother Teresa once stated that it was her goal to make every catholic a better catholic, and every Buddhist a better Buddhist. Seems to me, she was on the Atheist's side and they are too stupid to realize it. I don't disagree with them though. Why would we put someone so carnal on our stamps, when we have so many American soldiers that were true heroes, and deserve the recognition.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2010, 08:01:07 AM »
I'd support that ... a series of stamps of regular troops.
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2010, 08:06:30 AM »
Despite being a very, very, (very) strong advocate of seperating religion from government - I think this is harmless.  Postal stamps aren't policy - they're largely collector's items.  Hell I'm not sure that many people even use them anymore - businesses tend to use metered postage and the postal system as a means of communication between individuals is all but gone - most people using it are shipping packages where lots of stamps aren't the norm.

She's a noted public figure.  I see no issue with her being on a stamp (nor would I have any problem with seeing Gandhi or the Buddha on a stamp).

Offline Awf Hand

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2010, 08:09:52 AM »
I hope they're the peel and stick ones.  I don't want to lick her backside.
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Offline dukkillr

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2010, 08:12:42 AM »
Despite being a very, very, (very) strong advocate of seperating religion from government - I think this is harmless.  Postal stamps aren't policy - they're largely collector's items.  Hell I'm not sure that many people even use them anymore - businesses tend to use metered postage and the postal system as a means of communication between individuals is all but gone - most people using it are shipping packages where lots of stamps aren't the norm.

She's a noted public figure.  I see no issue with her being on a stamp (nor would I have any problem with seeing Gandhi or the Buddha on a stamp).
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I sometimes wonder why people who fight these things can't find something better to do... that applies to both sides of this "debate".

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2010, 08:15:25 AM »
Its foolish to think that all Americans will seperate religion from Govt. It is not what is written . It is how ever correct to demand that the US GOVT. not start or require Americans to go to a State church. All the rest is pure BS used as a smoke screen by those trying to change things . Our money says In God We Trust . It does not say in the Baptist , Catholic , American or any spefic God .
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2010, 08:24:26 AM »
Its foolish to think that all Americans will seperate religion from Govt. It is not what is written . It is how ever correct to demand that the US GOVT. not start or require Americans to go to a State church. All the rest is pure BS used as a smoke screen by those trying to change things . Our money says In God We Trust . It does not say in the Baptist , Catholic , American or any spefic God .

Yet some religions worship multiple gods (Hinduism) or no gods at all (Confucianism).  Some religions worship nature rather than gods (Wicca).  Some people believe all of it is just a bunch of deluded people invested in fantasy (Atheists). 

The only fair way to run a government that doesn't oppress any particular group is to keep religion out of policy (which is exactly what "Congress shall make no law" means).  People should be free to worship and do as they please - just don't take it into the legislature and expect to make anyone else obey any law rooted in your religious beliefs which, regardless of which particular set you pick, many others do not share.

As I said above though, postage stamps aren't policy.  I don't see an issue with this  particular case.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2010, 08:31:58 AM »
No you miss the point this country was founded by a group of people that believed in God . And now the ones you name wish to change it . No .
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2010, 08:48:50 AM »
No you miss the point this country was founded by a group of people that believed in God . And now the ones you name wish to change it . No .

This country was formed by a group of people who had left a land where religion ruled supreme and they wanted no more of that control, so they wrote the Constitution to protect themselves and future generations from such tyranny.  Many of the founding fathers were skeptical even then of many of the ideas being pushed by various religious factions.

Thomas Paine:
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all.

John Adams:
Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"

Thomas Jefferson referred to the book of Revelations as the "ravings of a maniac" and wrote:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained.

Benjamin Franklin:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble.

Indeed many of the founding fathers were more correctly described as Diests (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism), which is somewhat similar to the modern notion of Agnosticism.  In either event, they were wary, and rightfully so, of religion or the church having too much power in the government.  Many of the religious ideas and attitudes we see today are the result of the Great Awakening movement of the late 1800's, which occurred long after most of the founding fathers were in the grave.

The simple truth is that religious beliefs are personal choices.  The same freedom that allows all of us to choose our own beliefs is what allows others to do the same.  Insert those beliefs into the lawbooks though and you only maintain freedom so long as you're the majority.




Offline Questor

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2010, 08:50:39 AM »
I think of her as being famous for humanitarian work, not religious work.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2010, 08:54:03 AM »
I'd support that ... a series of stamps of regular troops.


I WOULD SUPPORT THAT as well!

I would also not have any problem with a Mother Theresa Stamp.

Heros are herosno matter their fight!

Atheist have a right to not worship! but they go too far with their doctrine.
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Offline Redtail1949

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2010, 08:57:16 AM »
Shootall and MGMorden:

you both are right on this. some people take the seperation of church and state to unbelieveable extreems. it was never meant to obliterate any mention of god. it was to make sure that the government make no laws concerning the right or wrong of any religion and that it not push any one religion over the other.

such nonsense as the objections to the mother teresa stamp shows just how lunacy is abundant in this country.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2010, 08:59:11 AM »
MCMorden they were aginst being told they had to worship at a state supported church . Get the facts stright . They included God in much of their works . I know many who believe in God but Not a particular religion . The two can be very diierent . Trying to use the words religion and God to mean the same thing is little more than trying to spin things . It is nothing more than people trying to split Americans so they can defeat our greatness I don't buy it !
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2010, 09:07:01 AM »
MCMorden they were aginst being told they had to worship at a state supported church .

Which is what policy is.  Whether it's worshipping at a certan church, not buying beer on the saboth, or whatever else you want to choose.  When the government starts enacting LAWS based on religious beliefs they're meddling where they don't belong.

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They included God in much of their works . I know many who believe in God but Not a particular religion . The two can be very diierent . Trying to use the words religion and God to mean the same thing is little more than trying to spin things .

Hence my reference to most of them being more correctly called Deists.  Many believed that there probably was some form of higher power or something similar at work (deity meaning a god, which is the root of Deism), but many didn't really subscribe to many of the ideas being batted around by any particular religious faction (read the link).  And in the end, the best way to handle that is to simply resign to letting people believe what they want.  

That's freedom - and it's a freedom that can only be attained when the government butts out of the whole affair.

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It is nothing more than people trying to split Americans so they can defeat our greatness I don't buy it !

Indeed, there is nothing more fracturing and divisive than religion, which is why in my mind it's a good idea to separate it from what it means to be American.  Don't try to legislate your beliefs on anyone else, the rest of us do the same, and we avoid all that splitting and division nonsense.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2010, 09:29:37 AM »
MCMorden, Get real . If the public as a whole do not want beer sold on sunday so be it there is no law that states if most of the voters don't want beer sold they can't pass the law even if its due to them going to church .
 Yes freedom is freedom - agreeded .
 Spliting America - I see the non beliver as much problem as the church side . If you don't believe then why does it matter to you ? If you don't then laugh it off and don't try to force your way , not believing on others sorta like reverse descrimation .
 Now face facts our laws are based on the British common laws which are based on the Bible . You can't seperate God from America even if you wanted to . In reality the "STATE" is governed by Gods word .
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2010, 09:41:15 AM »
MCMorden, Get real . If the public as a whole do not want beer sold on sunday so be it there is no law that states if most of the voters don't want beer sold they can't pass the law even if its due to them going to church .

That's where you're wrong.  That law is the 1st amendment.  

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Spliting America - I see the non beliver as much problem as the church side . If you don't believe then why does it matter to you ? If you don't then laugh it off

Why does it matter?  Well heck if I want to buy a beer on Sunday it matters to me.  If I want to buy a particular statue of a religious deity that isn't the most popular it matters to me.  If I want to do things which are none of anyone else's business and only "wrong" according to any particular belief system to which I do not subscribe then it matters to me.

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and don't try to force your way , not believing on others sorta like reverse descrimation .

Nobody says that anyone can't believe.  It's just that to some people, to have the audacity to tell you that you can't tell others what to believe is taken is telling them that their belief is wrong or illegal.  

For instance - if you think buying beer on Sunday is wrong - I've got some advice for you - DON'T DO IT.  See how easy that is?  You get to play by whatever rules you feel like setting for yourself.    The problem only comes in when you want to apply your own religiously based moral codes to your neighbor - and then have the audacity to proclaim that he's using "reverse discrimination" when he wants none of it.

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Now face facts our laws are based on the British common laws which are based on the Bible . You can't seperate God from America even if you wanted to . In reality the "STATE" is governed by Gods word .

Sorry, but that's complete and utter hogwash. Thanks to the Constitution I'd say that we have a system that does pretty well now at keeping the government secular.  It requires some maintenance every now and then against people trying to foist laws based on dogma back into it, but in reality it's a problem that's been solved.  

In reality, you're not worried about people "splitting America" - you're doing it yourself.  Instead of ignoring the differences you're drawing a line in the sand and claiming that everyone who doesn't jump to the same side as you is being divisive.  It's easier to just not draw the line in the first place.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2010, 10:05:03 AM »
Well you refuse to listen to reason . What does the first amnd. have to do with it ? If Govt. wants to pass an ordance to not sell beer and has the approval of the voters , same for porn or auto's The sale and location of sales can be regulated . At one time all sales of booze was stopped . It was recinded in congress not court . If you care to check there are dry counties in several states .
 Again you jump in with out reading , IF YOU DON"T BELIVE THEN WHY DOES IT MATTER IF OTHERS BELIEVE  ? The statement has nothing to do with your beer guy it has to do with believing in a certian religion or God . As for the law that keeps your beer locked up , maybe you need to move to where there are more beer drinkers than those who do not drink it .
Guess agin other than LA. our laws come as i stated . And I am not spliting America . I have no line in the sand . I support your right to not believe , I pray one day you will see the light . What i don't support is all the crazy offended people trying to grab at straws and spreading BS.
As for not believing why do you insist that if others have no right to vote as they feel God would want them to you can force your way . If they vote no beer sales on sunday THEN BUY YOUR'S ON SAT.
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2010, 10:19:57 AM »
Well you refuse to listen to reason . What does the first amnd. have to do with it ? If Govt. wants to pass an ordance to not sell beer and has the approval of the voters , same for porn or auto's
The first ammendment has EVERYTHING to do with it, because if that legislation is rooted in religious code, then it is unconstitutional.

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At one time all sales of booze was stopped . It was recinded in congress not court
BY AN AMMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION.  That's the only way they managed to sneak that in as by making it an ammendment itself it couldn't be declared unconstitutional.  It was also ripped back out by the same method.

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. If you care to check there are dry counties in several states .

That's all fine and dandy, but those laws are just as unconstitional as the DC Gun Ban was, and they're being repealed where challenged in the exact same way.  Just because you can get a law down on the books doesn't mean it's legal or will stand up to a court challenge.

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Again you jump in with out reading , IF YOU DON"T BELIVE THEN WHY DOES IT MATTER IF OTHERS BELIEVE  ?

I think you're the one missing the point.  Out of the whole thread, where have I stated that I even care what others believe.  Indeed I actively believe that you SHOULD have the right to believe what you want.  It's just that too often people want to stamp their feet when they don't get to tell everyone ELSE that they have to believe as others.

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The statement has nothing to do with your beer guy it has to do with believing in a certian religion or God . As for the law that keeps your beer locked up , maybe you need to move to where there are more beer drinkers than those who do not drink it .
Guess agin other than LA. our laws come as i stated .

Why should I move when the constitution already affords me the right to remain free from the persecution that would force such a move?   I could just as easily tell YOU to move, but I don't, because personally I don't mind anyone being around and doing as they please - just don't bother me with it.  We already moved once when this same type crap happened in Europe.  We wrote a very nice document to keep it from happening again.  I refuse to ignore it and perpetuate the cycle.

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And I am not spliting America . I have no line in the sand . I support your right to not believe , I pray one day you will see the light . What i don't support is all the crazy offended people trying to grab at straws and spreading BS.
As for not believing why do you insist that if others have no right to vote as they feel God would want them to you can force your way . If they vote no beer sales on sunday THEN BUY YOUR'S ON SAT.

You advocate moving elsewhere and so as to create walled off little comunities of people with different ideals and you claim to not be splitting the country?  If enough people decide to pass a law that says you can't religiously assemble on Sunday then are you fine with doing that on a Saturday?  Of course not - because they have no business putting that restriction on you or anyone else.  This is the problem with the country as it stands, and why Democrats get the votes they do.  Too many people who wave the flag and talk about freedom want to throw in the condition that by freedom, they mean living their way by their rules.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2010, 10:49:20 AM »
Gee guy look at what is written , Are you saying if christians have maj. vote and pass any law it is unconsitutional now ? See you are reverse discriminating . Just because they are Christians not because it may be a good law . It just happens to be one you don't like . Now if the passed a law that said you have to go to worship then you have a case.
 Point is they banded togather and passed it and the court could have heard a case had one come before it.
 Dry laws been around a long time seems they have stood the test of time .
 You state what you believe and that others have no rights to pass laws in conflict with what you want to do .
 If you don't like the laws where you live and they are legal then you would most likely be happier where the laws better suit you . Or you can buy beer on sat as do most of my friends do that live in dry areas . They don't whine about though . You seem to stamp your feet here .The document also allows you to move . It however does not allow you to be above the law of the land .
 This has been fun really but you refuse to see the law for what it is . It protects all not just those with an ax to grind . Good luck and have a cold one .
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Offline powderman

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2010, 10:55:45 AM »
No reason for Mother Theresa NOT to be on a stamp. I saw where a new 44cent stamp is being issued to honor 3 unholy days for the Godless muslims. THAT, should not be. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2010, 11:01:52 AM »
Gee guy look at what is written , Are you saying if christians have maj. vote and pass any law it is unconsitutional now ? See you are reverse discriminating . Just because they are Christians not because it may be a good law . It just happens to be one you don't like . Now if the passed a law that said you have to go to worship then you have a case.
 Point is they banded togather and passed it and the court could have heard a case had one come before it.

It has nothing to do with the fact that the voters are religious, and everything to do with the fact that THE LAW ITSELF is rooted in religion.  Do you not get that?  That's what the Bill of Rights IS.  It says that regardless of if you band together for a vote, THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU CANNOT DO.  Passing religiously based laws is one of those restrictions.  Outlawing guns is another.  Either support the document or not - you don't get to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution you want to follow (much as some politicians seem to want to).

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Dry laws been around a long time seems they have stood the test of time .

Not really.  I remember plenty of them when I was a kid.  Some at the county level, some at the city level.  You know how many of those are still around?  None.  There's still some elsewhere, but they're getting bounced off the books left and right.

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You state what you believe and that others have no rights to pass laws in conflict with what you want to do .
 If you don't like the laws where you live and they are legal then you would most likely be happier where the laws better suit you . Or you can buy beer on sat as do most of my friends do that live in dry areas . They don't whine about though . You seem to stamp your feet here .The document also allows you to move . It however does not allow you to be above the law of the land .
 This has been fun really but you refuse to see the law for what it is . It protects all not just those with an ax to grind . Good luck and have a cold one .

We'll just agree to disagree.  I stay put and fight for my rights because it's worth it.

(PS - I almost never drink beer.  Haven't had one a "cold one" in several months. Liquor/spirits occasionally, but even that is rare - as in my time between drinks is measured in weeks.  It's nice to have the option to without somebody telling me I CAN'T though.)

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2010, 01:01:15 PM »
You cannot separate the passage of law from the moral persuasion of the community - its impossible. No one can divorce their beliefs from how they vote, and it was never intended that they do so. In fact, there is plenty of evidence that it was both expected and embraced that our constitution protect the citizen from a government that would seek to take away God given rights (all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights according to the declaration), which in the articles were originally life, liberty, property, and the right to protect them. Where do we get an understanding of preexisting rights apart from a belief in something larger than government?

That murder is wrong, for example, or stealing, or any other law is ultimately rooted in the beliefs of the community, wherever they get them. That I support legislation criminalizing murder is rooted in my belief that we are made in God's image, and human life is valuable. If you concur but its based in a different belief, then we have a pluralistic society. If life has no instrinsic value apart from mineral worth after rendering, then why outlaw murder? Vote appropriately, and maybe enough of us will agree (albeit based on various religious understandings, or irreligious) that you shouldn't be rendered.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Atheist Group Blasts Postal Service for Mother Teresa Stamp
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2010, 07:27:27 AM »
I don't drink beer either so we can have a tea . You miss what i have said . Laws that tell us we shall go to a church , pray a certian way etc. are aginst our law. If a group of Christians wish to and have the votes to pass a law that does not violate the law of the land its OK . My point is as long as it is legal it should not be condemed because Christians voted for it . Same goes for the heathen as long as they can get a law passed not in violation of the law of the land so be it. So if a city has a law about kids being home before 10pm , walking nude in the street or where or when its legal to sell products beer or otherwise and Christians were the deciding factor so be it . Around here porno is limited to areas as is hard liquor (STATE OWNED STORE), guns etc.
Yes i get laws are rooted in religion ie; murder , rape , theft , etc were all mentioned in the Bible many years before the Magna Carta or our Consitution and Bill of Rights . I believe asking Christians to not vote there conviction is asking to much of them and is not set forth in any law.
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