3" or 3 1/2" for geese?

[jh41mag]

 I am new to the forum & also new to Waterfowl hunting. We hunt in Southern Indiana. I am going to be purchasing a new shotgun & was wanting to know if 3 1/2 shells are really nessasary, or if 3' pack enough punch? I also was wanting some input on Stoegers model 2000, if I stick with 3s I was thinking of investing in one!        THANKS FOR ANY IMPUT YOU CAN GIVE!   jh41mag

[dukkillr]

I HATE 3 1/2" 12 ga.  I can count on one hand the number of guys I've met shooting 3 1/2" 12ga that are doing anything but sky busting.  The recoil is absurd, the shells are expensive, follow up shots are slow, etc...

To me, if you're going with a dedicated goose gun, you need a 10 ga.  They weigh more so the recoil isn't bad, and payload is more balanced so the patterns are better.  Shells are still expensive.

That being said, if you're getting an auto and you may some day turkey hunt with it, there isn't much downside to a 3 1/2" gun. 

[LEO]

I am far from an expert waterfowler but here is what I have observed.  I am shooting a Remington 870 Super Mag and my better half is shooting a Remington 870.  I am shooting Federal Black Cloud 3 1/2 BBs (I got them on sale so thought I would try them) she is shooting Kent Fast Steel 3 " BBs.  We both limit our shots to 40 yards or less and she kills just as many geese as I do and doesn't have anymore cripples either.  Next year I will just be buying the Kents except for a few boxes of heavy shot for hunting on a WMA that limits the number or rounds you can carry and has both ducks and geese.  That makes it simplier in only having to keep up with one type of ammo and it is about half the cost of the Black Cloud, and I don't think we will be at all handicapped.  I think duckkillr hit the nail on the head that the 3" does fine when the bird is within range and the long shots with a 3 1/2 will knock down a bird occasionally but how many are wounded and not recovered?  As far as the Stoger goes, I have no experience with one but a buddy of mine who shots a lot has one and likes it.  I have a Benelli M1 super 90 but I don't hunt with it much because I don't shoot it as well as my 870 which I have been shooting in one form or another for 35 years or so.  There is nothing wrong with the Benelli it functions flawlessly and patterns great, I just need to spend some time on the skeet range to get dialed in with it. I do like a pump gun though because of where I hunt my shotgun often gets muddy and swamp debris in it, twice this year I have had the action on my 870 freeze shut from ice forming on the gun and it still worked fine when the time came to shoot, and it is easier to keep a pump gun running, the Benelli system is also simple and I think the Stoeger is a similar system.  If you only hunt out of built blinds/boat blinds then I don't think the reliabilty issue is as much of a factor and it just comes down to fit and preference.  Hope this helps

[Specklebelly]

3" is perfectly fine for waterfowl and suggest you don't mess with the 3 1/2 12 gauge.  If you want the 3 1/2, do us Dukkillr suggested and go with the 10 gauge.  That is a sweet and under used gauge.  I love mine.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

speckle, what kind of 10 ga. do you use???

[Specklebelly]

speckle, what kind of 10 ga. do you use???

Rem SP-10.  I bought it in 1992 and it still works fine.

[blacklab]

Can`t add a lot that duk & leo haven`t already said except I do shoot a 2000. I just got it cause I thought I needed it. I use it when we are in the pit blinds at Squaw Creek or land blinds locally. It has worked flawlessly. Bought it used, don`t know why mechanic sold it but I like it. I did put a Sims pad on it and 6 ounces of lead in the stock. I shoot a 2 3/4 in. first shot on ducks over decoys and follow with 3 in. 3`s in Kent Steel. When we shoot in muddy fields out of layouts I use the 870 or Nova because a pump will never balk on you. As far as 3 1/2 in shells I don`t know. My opinion is that a gun with a 3 1/2 in chamber will pattern better with 3 in. shells. A gun with a 3 in chamber will pattern 2 3/4 in shells real good. This should open a big can of worms!!!! If The geese are not working to the decoys well I pull out the BPS 10 and go to work. My opinion, it`s like an armpit, everybody has one. If you go to shotgunworld.com they have a section dedicated to Stoeger. You will learn everything you need to know.

[bkraft]

I have an older model 835 Mossberg Turkey gun that kicks like a "one eyed bay mule." The only time I use 3 1/2" in it is for pit bulls(have a large dog fighting contingent in the area) and coyotes. Everything else is 3" and under. I like the versatility that the 3 1/2" inch chamber gives but, if I found a gun I liked and it fit and the price was good and it was only 3" I'd buy it in a minute and never look back. Especially if it was an auto. +1 on checking out shotgun world.

[Rock Home Isle]

Like most avid hunters...I'm very opinionated about what I like and what I don't like when it pertains to my sport...To each his own. Here's my opinion. 

I hunted with a 3 1/2...one time. It felt slow to swing, almost sluggish and there wasn't that nice authoritative "womp" at the trigger pull. To this day I don't get it, because it was basically the same gun that I always shoot anyway.

For a good realiable "day in day out" Goose Gun, give me a solid 3" magnum, and Pump or Over/Under are my preferences when the shooting gets going hot. And I'm deadly with Steel "T" shot that screams out the barrel(s) at a velocity of ~1500 FPS...to me 1500 is the magic number for steel, and faster is better yet. These days its hard to find "T" shot, so I load my own...if I have to "BBB" will fill the bill, but the shots need to be much closer...nothing over 30-35 yards.

Water fowling is a hoot...good times and good friends...what could be better? 

[Dee]

Been killin ducks and geese for about 50 years with 2 3/4" 12 guage loaded with BBs. Didn't know you needed anything else.

[gypsyman]

Dee, you just don't read enough of those hunting magazines. You ought to know that 2 3/4 don't kill anymore. Gotta go get yourself one of those new wize/bang master blasters, that kills out to end of sight. gypsyman

[RB1235]

 As a boy we would take geese with 2 3/4 low brass 1 oz loads. The law changed and we found out steel really is pitiful. Lead was 6 shot. Went to magnums in 4  steel, then 2 and  settled on bb. My goose gun is an 11-48 Rem auto from the 50's. Will only handle 2 3/4".
I imagine you can create a denser shot string with more pellets. Not so sure there is any other benefit than throwing more pellets though. If the same size pellet leaves at the same velocity, it will strike the goose with the same energy whether 2 3/4, 3 or 3 1/2 I would imagine.

[Rock Home Isle]

Dee and gypsyman you guys kill me.

…Gawd I love this site. 

[Rock Home Isle]

.... The law changed and we found out steel really is pitiful. Lead was 6 shot. Went to magnums in 4  steel, then 2 and  settled on bb. My goose gun is an 11-48 Rem auto from the 50's. Will only handle 2 3/4".
...

I grew up using 2 3/4 BB loads on Geese. Infact, when I loaded my old 870 pump; my 1st 2 shots were 2 3/4" BB and my last round was usually a 3" BB load.

Then the laws changed. So I experimented and talked with the experts that I was acquainted and I found that I could get close to the same results as my old favorite BB loads, if I went up 2 shot sizes when I use steel and increased my velocity to compensate for the increased air resistance and reduction in density. So now I use "T" shot in a 3" magnum, but at a velocity of 1500 fps or more. I get much the same performance with these steel loads as I did with my old favorite lead BB's.

One other point that I've noticed, I don't have as much shot in the game animal. It seems to me that the steel seems to go through the carcass instead of staying in the animal. But that's a personal observation.

[JRW209]

Are 3 1/2" shells needed for waterfowl hunting? NO.

With that said i would say go ahead and get a 3 1/2" gun. you dont have to shoot 3 1/2" shells in it of course. My Beretta Xtrema II shoots 3 1/2" but my duck and goose loads are Kent Faststeel 3" 2's. 3's if there are alot of teal around. My Beretta is 12 gauge but it is built on a 10 Gauge frame so it can handle any load from low base upland game loads all the way up to the 3 1/2" mags. I dont know waht your budget is but I highly recomend that you look into an Xtrema.

I suggest getting a 3 1/2" gun because you might want to hunt turkeys or predators and you could use 3 1/2 inch shells for those aplications.

[SHOOTALL]

The 3.5 is good for steel shot when shot has to be large BB , BBB or larger . This keeps the pellet count up . With other shot being heavier it seems less important . That said it becomes enomics - can you afford 10 rounds of 2 3/4 - #2 heavy shot at 38 bucks or 25 3.5 -BBB at 28 a box ?
 I have found heavy shot to work best so far with tungston matrix next. For ducks I like 2 3/4 #4 and geese 3 - # 2-BB . One time in Canada the only American shells i could get were 3.5 steel . So if you travel then a gun that shoots 2 3/4 thru. 3.5 might be a good investment .

[mcwoodduck]

I have been hunting water fowel for a while.
Depending on range to the bird is what shells I use.
Swamp - 2 3/4" steel, Bizmouth, or Heavy shot Depending on Ga.  12 for Woodducks is usually steel, and the 20 ga can be either bizmouth or heavy shot.
Blind - 2 3/4 or 3" depending on how windy or clear it is.  Windy days and clear days I want more shot in the pattern.
Open River - 3" or 3.5"  This is where I am going to have long shots and the heavier payload = more pellerts gives me greater pattern density at greater ranges.  this is where the argument of Steel vs Bizmouth vs Heavy shot comes into play.
If a Steel BB, Bizmouth #2, and Heavy shot #4 all weight the same you will have more pellets in the heavy shot doing the dame damage as the steel BB at the same speed and distance.  So in an 2 Oz by volume of steel you will have 25 Pellets, in the same shot cup you will have 32 #2's and 50 #4 shot.  Number are exadurated a little but close.

When 3.5" came out my Fater had ot have one and after shooting one at the farm at a clay bird.  He has never carried or used any since.
he shoots his 3.5" gun with mostly 2 3/4" shells and when he needs distance he goes with smaller Heavy shot.

Last time we were hunting Snow geese and barnicle geese in Southern CA they were flying about 50 to 60 yards over our blind and the guys I was hunting with thought it was too far.  I changed shells from 2 3/4 duck loads to a couple 3.5" #2 Heavy shot I had and dropped one.
After that Guys were borrowing shells or my shotgun (some only had 3" guns) till we all limited.
Yes the Heavy shot shells are expensive but they really work well.  I would rather pick one well placed shot than send a cloud of steel into the air and hope to bring down a bird.  I do still use steel, Usually the one in the chamer is Heavy shot followed by steel or heavy shot depending on what  and where we are hunting.

[SHOOTALL]

When you consider all the money spent on waterfoul hunting and realize the shot you send at them is the only thing that can bring the bird to bag , buying anything less than the best shot for the job ( heavy shot) is just not cost effective. Besides shooting 3-4 steel shells instead of one HS makes for a heavy shell bag.

[mcwoodduck]

Shootall,
but there are times when the heavy shot is not needed.
Cripples, or short range where steel works just fine.

41 mag,
But this is about what gun to get a 3" or 3.5"
Had the same delema a few years ago and went with the 3.5"
Better to have the ability to shoot the 3.5" shells and not wanting or needing them than
only having a 3" and needing a 3.5 for range or payload.
If the costs of the two guns are the same I say get the 3.5"  other than your shoulder for the first round, What could it hurt?   

[SHOOTALL]

I have yet to see a duck or goose to dead but have seen many not dead enough when shot with steel . Up close steel is very tight in pattern and at distance it lacks effectivness . So why bother ? Use a 20 ga. with heavy shot to save a shoulder and a few bucks . I like to have confidence in my load and gun with steel i do not !

[mcwoodduck]

OK,
I remember my first year shooting Steel at Ducks in NC.
I had a S&W 3000 with a 30" barrel and full choke.
Was shooting 2 3/4" steel shot #4's and we were in a swamp so 25 yard shots max.
Well first light and here come a pair of woodducks a Drake nad a hen about a foot apart from each other.
I lead the Drake and pull the trigger and BOTH fold up like hit and hit the water with huge splashes.  
I think steel shot is the best stuff since sliced bread.  Two birds with one round.  I take three steps headed their way both popped up and started to swim away.  I dumped the other two shells intothe drake as he was trying to swim away and ended up chasing him all over the swamp and ended up using 22 shells to kill that one bird.  
The next day I changed barrels to a 26" improved choke and my pattern was a lot better na was dropping a single bird with a single shell.
Had I had bizmouth that was made to shoot through fixed chokes I would not have had the problems.

[Dee]

Well after readin all this, I'm gonna have to go out buy a new shotgun, and some big ole shells to go with it. I have been doin it all wrong.

[mcwoodduck]

Well after readin all this, I'm gonna have to go out buy a new shotgun, and some big ole shells to go with it. I have been doin it all wrong.

And the 30-30 shells will now bounce off deer.      Just kidding.
Depends on what and where you hunt as to what shells will work best.  Did not say work, said best.  and if you are going to buy a new water fowler why not get the 3.5" and take advantage of the added payload and the heavier than lead shot to increase your killing power and shell options.
As I said it is a mater of what I want, when I hunt, and what I think will work bests at different places.  I do get to hunt different places and conditions.  After trying to shoot steel, cause I am cheep, I found I was shooting more shells, then when I bought the heavy shot ( I had a coupon)and would score killing hits with one round and  saw I was saving $ by using the more expensive shells
Don't get me wrong where we shoot over decoys and you get a duck or goose in side of the 25 yard mark and they put the landing gear down.  Steel works.  But where you have distance.  I like the heavier payloads.
In england where the geese and swans are flying 100 yards above the shooters they are using 1 and 2 ga guns.
It shoots a POUND or 1/2 POUND of shot into the sky.  they need this to reach the birds in their limited hunting places.
Have only seen pictures but the shell for a 1 Bore looks like the cigar humidor that is made to look like a shotgun shell.
About 2 inches in diameter and bout 9" tall.  Hate to see what they cost per round.  I thought it was bad when I spent $5 loading my 10ga sXS with Bizmouth.
But the huge 1 and 2 Bore guns Kind of makes a 3.5" shell puny. 

[Dee]

Duck I was being facetious. I have an 870 Wingmaster (one of the old ones) that has seen more bad guys than most folks have seen on TV. When I bought it years ago, I took the purty wood off, and replaced it with zytel. When I got out of L.E. I put the nice wood back on, and bought a nice ribbed two bead barrel with a marbles white front bead, and screw in chokes and 3" chamber. If that shotgun won't do it, it don't need doin at my house. It ain't as old as my Winchester, but it's old enough that you can see the difference in the wood and stuff from the new ones, and it's as smooth as glass in the action. I don't need any more guns.
Them limeys can keep their 2 gauges. I ain't that hungry.

[mcwoodduck]

 
You know I was teasing.
It's hard to beat the classics.

[Big Nasty]

I have killed many a duck and goose with 3 1/2 inch #2's in my day, and never had any problem. It depends on how your gun is set up. Don't get me wrong I like the ten gauge I just can't afford the ammo. Just remember when the bird is flying where the 747's fly don't shoot, I HATE SKY BUSTERS.

[SHOOTALL]

Don't forget that 3.5 loads shoot slower that 3 and 3 slower than 2 3/4 . Consider also that steel vs any load shoot at different FPS so switching shells can cause misses if you don't account for the difference . That's why i like to use one load or 2 at the most on a hunt .

[BigDozer66]

Are 3 1/2" shells needed for waterfowl hunting? NO.

With that said i would say go ahead and get a 3 1/2" gun. you dont have to shoot 3 1/2" shells in it of course. My Beretta Xtrema II shoots 3 1/2" but my duck and goose loads are Kent Faststeel 3" 2's. 3's if there are alot of teal around. My Beretta is 12 gauge but it is built on a 10 Gauge frame so it can handle any load from low base upland game loads all the way up to the 3 1/2" mags. I dont know waht your budget is but I highly recomend that you look into an Xtrema.

I suggest getting a 3 1/2" gun because you might want to hunt turkeys or predators and you could use 3 1/2 inch shells for those aplications.

It would be hard to get better advice than this.

I have filled a many a freezer with my old Remmy 870 WIngmaster 3" that was my first gun I bought myself. That must have been around '85 or so? I got to the point that I didn't want to scar it up so I decided to get a new bird slayer. 

I have a Browning Gold SG 12g 3-1/2" and a Beretta Xtrema II in 12g 3-1/2".
The Beretta is the one I grab when I am headed to hunt ducks or geese.

If there is a better handling, better shooting shotgun I have not found it.
I use 2-3/4 and 3" steel in #2, #3, and #4 for ducks as most of the shots are less than 20 yards where I hunt most of the time.
Woodies are the most common killed so a big shot isn't called for.
If geese are on the menu then 3-1/2" BB's and BBB's are what I use.

Everyone I know that has a Benelli, Franchi or Stoeger do not like shooting the bigger heavier shells in them because of the recoil.
With the Xtrema II there is almost no recoil. 

The Stoeger is a nice gun for the money but for more money you can get a better gun.
The decision is yours.

If you are close enough I would be more than happy to let you shoot it and see what you think. 

BigDozer66

[10gaugeMS^_^]

I like my h&r 10 Ga but im gonna sell it and move up to a Bps 10 there heavy but well balanced I wish I could use it on the plantation to shoot those long flyer quial. And I doubt beretta makes a 12 Ga 3.5 on a 10 Ga frame it would weigh like 11 lb . Also I hear the sp10 is the most reliable semi auto remington makes the design is 30+ years old and most people I talked to who has them said the been using theirs for over 20 yrs.  If you wanna talk 10 Ga though id go over to duckchat.com lots of experts on 10 over there. And if you handload alliant has data for a load that is 400 fps more than the same 12 Ga 3.5 load. I had a 3.5 12 Ga pump 6.4 lbs had 86 ft lbs recoil with 2 1/4 oz load. I love all shotguns though right now my brothe