Preferred powder for your cap and ball?

[His lordship.]

I used to use Pyrodex back in the 80's, easy to get.  I started using real black powder Goex fffg when I got back into cap and ball back in 2006.  My flask is getting empty and I will need to get more powder, I have not used any of the new stuff like American, etc.  My main goal is to protect my gun, and shoot decent groups, I don't mind extra cleaning as I grew up with black powder guns.  What do you guys recommend for me to restock my powder supplies with?

Thanks.

[bedbugbilly]

I've never tried pyrodex or any of the others - I've used Goex for 45 years - 2F in muskets, 3F in C&B revolvers and smaller bore rifles.  I had soneone give me a pound of "Elephant" brand 2F one time to try in my musket when I was shooting NSSA - still went back to Goex.  I guess it all depends on what is available in your area.  I go by the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".  But again, times are a changin' as far as availability, restrictions, etc. so a lot of things enter in to it, price, availabilty, etc.  I sort of a traditionlist and really don't want to use anything but black powder.  I still have several of the empty Goex cans that I bought when I first started shooting BP 45 years ago and have to chuckle because the price is still on them in grease pencil - 75 Cents / 1 pound - things have changed a little since them!  If you shoot with others, maybe you could swap enough and try a cylinder full of what they're using to see how you like it and what a different brand has to offer.  Good luck and safe shooting!   

[Fingers McGee]

What do you guys recommend for me to restock my powder supplies with?

Restock with real BP whether it be GOEX, Scheutzen, Wano, KIK, Grafs, Swiss, etc.  For CAS or informal plinking, there's not a whole lot of difference between them.  Wasn't real pleased with Elephant years ago before they quit production - havent tried the new stuff yet though.  For C&Bs I stay away from the subs, APP, Pinnacle, T7.  Their use can sometimes be problematic depending on loads, cones, caps, wads, etc.

FM

[ZVP]

 I've tried both 777 and the current Pyrodex, and I prefer Pyrodex for it's preformance but if clean-up is your concern then go to 777.
 In my own experience, 777 is some HOT STUFF! Loaded the same (By volume not weight) if you load either substitute like black powder the 777 will really give some high velocities! I loaded my '58 Remington replica with 35 grains of the 777 and the revolver really became a handfull! Power of the charge is near the maximum I feel safe with but is actually below standards. Clean-up is much easier and more Krud-free than with anything and you can shoot more cylinders in a row than with anything else. I shot 6 cylinders in a row without even a wipedown.
 I normally disasamble and wipe the pin cylinder face and frame down with a damp cloth every 3 cylinders full.
 Pyrodex is a nice alternative. Clean-up wise it tends to start to load the cylinder of the Remington a little after 4 cylinders (Not near jammed) and at the end of the day simple soap and water gets it all waqshed off easilly.
 Power-wise Pyrodex acts like B/P insofar as it recoils gently and builds up enough pressure to shoot accuratelly all day. I use 30-35 gr in the Remington and at 20 yards groups are respectable and velocity is up in the 800 fps range. I have loaded Pyrodex as low as 20 gr with no problems even behind a .457 ball. I normally shoot a .454 with the light load but prefer (and so does the pistol) a 30-35 gr load for accuracy. If I ever were to consider a defensive load for the big Remington I'd go with 35 gr and a .457 ball. It feelsw reaqlly good and the groups sure look good at 7 paces.
 I have used 777 in my open-topreplicas but have loaded light and by weight. I prefer not to use the 777 in these revolvers because of pressure levels and a fear of the basic design of the open-top. I have tried it in a Brass and steel framed open top and found no loosening problems but it's just a personal hang-up.
 HTH,
 ZVP

[FourBee]

I started out with Pyrodex, but now prefer GOEX FFFg.   Swiss is a little hotter than GOEX, and I forget why I don't like KIK......
I read that  Scheutzen has replaced the old Elephant Brand name.

[Gatofeo]

Goex FFFG, and if I can't get that, Goex FFG.
I much prefer real black powder.
Some black powder substitutes boast that their fouling is cleaned with only water. Well, lah-de-dah -- black powder fouling is cleaned with soapy water so what's the diff?
Both require the same cleaning method.
Black powder is harder to find, but in my experience it beats all others for accuracy.
Hodgdon 777 is powerful stuff. It is not designed to be used in the same amounts as black powder.
Back in 2004 I picked up a can of Hodgdon 777 and loaded it into my Uberti-made Remington 1858 in .44 caliber. I used a full load -- 40 gr. measure under a .454 inch ball. No greased wad between the two, and CVA Grease Patch over the ball.
Wowie! Zowie! That pistol bucked and roared! I knew after I'd emptied it that I'd just fired some powerful loads.
Then I looked at the label and noticed that Hodgdon recommended 35 grains in the Ruger Old Army! Yikes! The Ruger Old Army is the strongest cap and ball revolver ever made.
Hodgdon recommends something like 30 to 35 grains in the steel-framed Remington. I don't use 777 much, but when I do I set my measure to 30 grains.
Yeah, it was a stoopid thing to do.
I like black powder. It works, it's the propellant for which these revolvers were designed, and there's no questioin as to how much to use.

[Odinbreaker]

I use Jim Shockly gold 3 f for both my 36 and 44 clean up is easy also many more shoots can be made.   Just a quick wipe down and keep shooting.

[El Gringo]

Seems I dont see real black powder around here,  but lots of Pyrodex so thats what I've been using.
I did get a old can of Goex from my father in law...I'll be trying out some of that this spring.

[FourBee]

  Posted by: El Gringo

Seems I dont see real black powder around here

Yep !  That's how it is here too.   Had to drive halfway across the next State to get hold of my 1st can.   Since then I order it at 5 pounds per order from Powder Inc.

[Buffalo Bruce]

Chris:

I have 3 that I use in matches. A Remington New Army with a 2 piece R&D conversion cylinder, a 36 cal. 1851 Navy Colt and a 44 cal 1860 Army. All made by Uberti. At this point, I use American Pioneer 3f for all of my match shooting for several reasons-accuracy, clean-up, lube issues. AP works well in cap-n-ball guns and loads well in cartridges. For pure shooting fun, accuracy and boom, real black is the best. Pyrodex shoots well, but, it is much too crosive and I will not use it in my guns.

I use Jim Shockey for rifle loads only. Too expensive and makes no difference at pistol ranges.

Buffalo

[ronbow]

I use 35 - 40 g of 777 fff in my ROA because, .... well because it's a ROA. Kinda like the kid who asked me why I don't have a cat-back dual pipes on my Dodge 1500 Hemi. I jus looked at the kid and told him "it's a Hemi. It doesn't need to make noise". Nuff said. ROAs are sweeeeeeeet.

[coyotejoe]

I started out with Pyrodex, but now prefer GOEX FFFg.   Swiss is a little hotter than GOEX, and I forget why I don't like KIK......
I read that  Scheutzen has replaced the old Elephant Brand name.

You can read about anything on the net, lots of it good info and lots of it totally wrong. Scheutzen powder as sold by Graf's is made in Germany, same as Wano, and is very good powder. Elephant was made in Brazil and I think it still is being made there but not being imported. I don't know about KIK.

[BobJ]

Ran out of my Goex 3F. Picked up Jim Shockey 3F locally, can't get BP around here, which I would prefer. I like the sulfur smell of real BP, have never used a sub before. This shockey is labeled 3F, but is much coarser than my BP 3F, have to shake the flask to fill the spout. Seems to shoot fine, but not able to bench rest for groups yet. I put lube on top of balls, but ran out of lubed wads. fouling seems dry, thin but hard in barrel after test shoot yesterday. Will lube my wads when they arrive with dixie old zip patch gease. They were out of mutton tallow, I think they just made gatofeo lube and sell it for 10X the price of mutton tallow. Hopefully that will resolve the fouling problem (if it is a problem) with the shockey.

[flmason]

Goex FFFG, and if I can't get that, Goex FFG.
I much prefer real black powder.
Some black powder substitutes boast that their fouling is cleaned with only water. Well, lah-de-dah -- black powder fouling is cleaned with soapy water so what's the diff?
Both require the same cleaning method.
Black powder is harder to find, but in my experience it beats all others for accuracy.
Hodgdon 777 is powerful stuff. It is not designed to be used in the same amounts as black powder.
Back in 2004 I picked up a can of Hodgdon 777 and loaded it into my Uberti-made Remington 1858 in .44 caliber. I used a full load -- 40 gr. measure under a .454 inch ball. No greased wad between the two, and CVA Grease Patch over the ball.
Wowie! Zowie! That pistol bucked and roared! I knew after I'd emptied it that I'd just fired some powerful loads.
Then I looked at the label and noticed that Hodgdon recommended 35 grains in the Ruger Old Army! Yikes! The Ruger Old Army is the strongest cap and ball revolver ever made.
Hodgdon recommends something like 30 to 35 grains in the steel-framed Remington. I don't use 777 much, but when I do I set my measure to 30 grains.
Yeah, it was a stoopid thing to do.
I like black powder. It works, it's the propellant for which these revolvers were designed, and there's no questioin as to how much to use.

I know I'm responding to an old post here... but had too... Was over on the Hodgdon site this eve... they list *25* grains for steel framed Remmy's.

Looks to me like you can't use the extra velocity potential of 777 in C & B revolvers. 25 gr. of 777 was in at something like 760 fps. But the max of 35 grains of Pyrodex was in the 900's.

[Pat/Rick]

Hard to find black powder around my house so I have been using pyrodex select for caplock rifles and revolvers. I save the goex I do have for my flinter.

[FourBee]

 

Posted by: coyotejoe    Scheutzen powder as sold by Graf's is made in Germany, same as Wano, and is very good powder. Elephant was made in Brazil and I think it still is being made there but not being imported.

coyotejoe; that statement is correct, although what I read was that Scheutzen bought out the Plant in Brazil, with rights to continue using the Elephant Brand.  There used to be a shop in Texas a few years ago that was still selling Elephant brand powder, but I've lost track of it.
4B
ps  Pat/Rick :  I order my black powder.  Cheaper than driving the 100 mile trip to buy it.  Once they've got your paperwork, it's just a phone call away, and delivered to your doorstep.

[Pat/Rick]

FourBee, I'll check them out and see what they (Powder Inc) can do for me . Thanks