223 what am i doing wrong???

[original]

i am new to reloading and trying to reload for my 223.   i use the lee scale and zero'd out and double checked and triple checked.   measured out 26gr of varget and it fills the entire case.   rechecked the zero and made sure the ball was in the 0 saddle measured 26gr and same thing.      any ideas?   do the lee dippers give the min or max loads?  thanks again.

[Dill45]

Have you tried tapping the case while you're pouring it?  I've found that helps get it down a bit.

Is it military brass?  They tended to have thicker walls therefore less capacity.

[burntmuch]

Does the book show that as a compressed load

[original]

it is the military brass.  the min load is 25.5 and max was 27.5 and the book didnt show it as a compressed load.   i just used the dipper and it gave it some more space in the brass.  even the 26 grain was almost to the top of the neck.   the dipper measured 22grain.   should i get a weight and check the scale?

[cwlongshot]

 Dippers are simply a set of various sized scoops. What they throw is variable. it takes a bit of a "knack" to get any continuity. DEFINITELY don't use them for max or even near max loadings!!!

Trying to load with a measure you cannot trust is not the smartest thing a reloader could do. I recommend a better made powder measure. Lyman #55, RCBS uniflo are two good ones! A dump style try the Lil Dandy from RCBS.

CW

[billy_56081]

I use 26 grains of Varget in Military cases and it comes to the bottom of the neck is all. Try weighing a few bullets and checking your scale.

[Dill45]

Dippers are simply a set of various sized scoops. What they throw is variable. it takes a bit of a "knack" to get any continuity. DEFINITELY don't use them for max or even near max loadings!!!

Trying to load with a measure you cannot trust is not the smartest thing a reloader could do. I recommend a better made powder measure. Lyman #55, RCBS uniflo are two good ones! A dump style try the Lil Dandy from RCBS.

CW

If you're patient with the scoops and don't just scoop and pour, they can be pretty accurate.  That's my experience at least.  But you can't rush them.

[cwlongshot]

Dippers are simply a set of various sized scoops. What they throw is variable. It takes a bit of a "knack" to get any continuity. DEFINITELY don't use them for max or even near max loadings!!!

Trying to load with a measure you cannot trust is not the smartest thing a reloader could do. I recommend a better made powder measure. Lyman #55, RCBS uniflo are two good ones! A dump style try the Lil Dandy from RCBS.

CW

If you're patient with the scoops and don't just scoop and pour, they can be pretty accurate.  That's my experience at least.  But you can't rush them.

Agreed
CW

[LaOtto222]

As has been suggested; take a few bullets and use them to test the scale. The bullets should come out + or - a couple tenths of a grain within the published bullet weight. The bullet weight should be repeatable too. Make absolutely sure the scale is reading the correct weight. If not then you will need to get a scale that is more reliable.

[bobg]

   A friend of mine had a Lee scale. He ask me how he could tell if it was accurate. I loaned him my check weights. He said it weighed 3 grains higher than the scale was set at. Lee did send him a new one that worked. I sure wouldn't own one.
      bobg

[D Garfield]

  If you are having trouble getting all the powder in the case you need to dump it into the funnel slowly and give the grains of powder time to lay down.. It will fill the cases pretty full, most will be compressed or close to it.

[burntmuch]

Ive been using the Lee scale for a couple years. It kinda works kinda OK.  Mostly Now I use it to check my loads that I do with the dippers. I think Ive gotten the dippers figured out. For me They work great with W748 & lilgun. But for me its time to upgrade to a new scale.

[Ranger J]

I ran into the same 'problem' with weighed loads of Varget using the loads listed in the Lee manual with military brass.  Lee loads are usually on the conservative side.  I use loads on the low side of the listings and run into this problem on both Varget and Re#15 loads.  As the low end of the listings nearly fills the case I don't think I could get a high end load of these two powders in military brass.  I use a powder 'dropper' and weigh out the loads.  Perhaps another powder selection would be a better choice with the military brass.

RJ

[Graybeard]

I have loaded as much as 27.1 grains Varget into LC92 brass which I happen to have a rather large supply of. THAT IS NOT A LOAD RECOMMENDATION so I will not say what bullet it is used with.

The secret is in how you put the powder into the case when you are using a book max or near book max load listed in the book as compressed. I have two primary methods I use in this regard if the powder tends to over flow when dropped normally.

Method one is to tap the case as I slowly pour the powder into the case and the longer the drop the better. I have a 6" drop tube that in conjunction with slowly pouring powder while tapping the case usually works. This will easily allow you to get a grain or more of powder in than you can without the tube or tap.

Method two is to hold the base of case to the top of my vibrating tumbler while pouring the powder in. You can get a good grain to grain and a half more powder in the same case using this method than you can with method one.

If the load fills the case to the top of mouth but does not run over it I have yet another method I use to settle the powder before seating the bullets. I have my cases in a loading block. I prefer the wooden blocks sold by Midway USA for this. Then carefully set another of same type down on top of the cases so that you have made a sandwich with the case as the filler for it and the two wood blocks as the bread.

Now hold the blocks tightly together in your hands and touch the bottom block to the top of your vibrating tumbler in several places on the wood block to vibrate it well. This will settle the powder that was at the very mouth of the case to below the neck in most cases.

I use all three methods as appropriate when dealing with load densities of 95% to 110% and generally one or the other will allow you to get the powder charge even when it's getting close to 110% load density to all be inside the case. If you're approaching that upper number which darn few books recommend then you might need to use either method one or two and follow it up with #3 to have room in the neck of case before seating the bullet.

[original]

thanks for all it help guys.   i didnt even think about using a bullet as a weight.  i weighed a 55gr and it came up as 54.7.    i did use the scoop and i will run a few though the rifle along with some hornady factory and see how that brass fills up on the next reload.    the vibrate thing is a good idea also i was just a little nervous about trying to make the powder fit since my only experience so far has been 6.5 and 270 where there was plenty of room in the case left over.  thanks again and i think i will probably be investing in a new scale as well. 

[JW307]

Sounds like your scale is plenty accurate.  I have one laying around somewhere that I started with.  It was accurate and reliable, just slow and needed to be zeroed fairly often because of how sensitive it is.  Because of the shape of Varget and RL 15 it doesn't fall into the case like a ball powder and you definitely need to tap the case a little to get it to settle down.  The only reason I'm not still using the Lee beam scale is because I thought it was way too slow and I bought a digital scale.

Jake

[kyhareraiser]

 i load 26 grain in brass made by lake city,which i think is military brass. i have no problem with the cases holding the 26 grain.the powder also fills the brass up to the bottom of the neck ,and all works well in my semi''.. how about trying a powder funnel with a longer neck so the powder will drop farther and kinda compact itself..works for me

[kydia]

The amount of powder the case holds depends on the volume which is a function of the case manufacturer. I have been using Pretoria Metal Products (PMP) cases for my 223 and they will only hold 25 grains of varget without compression. A standard Remington (R-P) case will hold almost 27 grains without compression.

This is a standard with all PMP cases I have reloaded from 223 up to 30-06. Thier volume is one to two grains low across the board when compared to R-P or Winchester cases.

Even though the case is full with the reduced charge, I haven't seen any pressure signs. The velocity is just about right on for the charge when referencing manuals such as lyman or hornady.