Author Topic: Home defense shotgun sights (Read 1926 times)

tbmaker · « **on:** January 31, 2010, 02:37:20 PM »

Not sure where to post this question.
I have a Mossberg 500 that is being set aside specificly for a home defense scatergun.
Currently it sports an 18" barrel, pistol grip forearm, synthetic stock, 6 shot side saddle, and just had a picatinny rail installed on it.
Main ammo will be buckshot and occasional slugs.

What's the best sight?
I'm thinking a holo sight.
Short, compact, light weight, easier to use with both eyes open, etc.

Other options or opinions?

cybin · « **Reply #1 on:** February 01, 2010, 04:35:08 PM »

Home defense is usually close range--no sights needed.

cybin

Dee · « **Reply #2 on:** February 01, 2010, 04:49:12 PM »

I have an 1100 Remington that I originally hauled in a K-9 Unit. It has a bead blasted black finish, and I had originally installed heavier springs, a six shot side saddle, 21" barrel with rifle sights, screw in chokes, and 6 round mag extension. It was a fighting shotgun that I followed K-9s into dark buildings with.
After retiring I stripped it down to just the the 21" barrel with rifle sights. It does have a fiber optic front sight Hi-Viz, but is much lighter to wield now.
Home defense means "home defense". I want light, and portable. If you need a holo-sight to hit a man in your front yard, or living room with a shotgun, the money would be better spent on ammo and shooting lessons.
Having used a shotgun for building and room searches many times in many years, I would advise you to lose the pistol grip forearm as it snags things in the dark, and to me ruins the natural point-ability of a sawed off shotgun. A straight forearm is the way to go. Aside from that, your already good to go. JMO

Noreaster · « **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2010, 11:41:34 PM »

Holo sounds good, quick to pick up and use in low light. Wouldn't hurt to put a rail on the front grip with a light/laser set up. I have a NEF set up with regular beed sight and I'm looking at a light/laser combo for it, something like an M6. Don't know about your house situation as far as family members but #4 buck or even birdshot is good close up and less likely to over penetrate the threat or a wall.

drdougrx · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2010, 03:12:26 AM »

Well Dee...incorrigible. common sense and the voice of experience...yet again!! Tbmaker...listen to Dee...I have an ithaca 37 deerslayer deluxe with fancy wood, rifle sights, 20" barrel and no disconnector...fancy riot gun whose sights I can see ... which really is the point.

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** February 02, 2010, 03:20:28 AM »

A good long while back during the early days of the craziness that still has not ended I was looking for a Mossberg home defense gun to go with the ARs I was picking up. I found just what I wanted in one store but those folks lied to me badly and screwed me over on an AR deal so I've not been back since and will never again walk into that gunstore, actually a pawn shop but with more guns than most gun stores.

So I went looking elsewhere and no one had the Mossberg I was looking for in stock. I wound up with a Browning BPS set up about the same as the Mossberg at a decent price. It holds nine rounds full up but I can't seem to find any accessories made to fit it like for the Remington and Mossberg guns. So mine is rather plain with just a front bead sight. Still at the ranges I would expect to use it I figure my 40+ years of active shotgun use and wingshooting plus clays competition might allow me to hit a man inside my home with it as is.

What I'd like in my home defense shotgun tho is somewhat different.

I'd really like one of those door breaching screw in choke tubes with the sharp and narly teeth on the end so that if ya had to punch something with the barrel it would know it had been punched. I'd like a bright (at least 120 lumens) light and a laser for it. For sights I think I'd really like those glow in the dark night sights like my Glocks have.

I still figure one day if I ever get to where I can buy some more guns I'll pick up either a Mossberg or Remington to set up that way. Like Dee mine might be an semiauto rather than a pump. I've shot semiautos in competition and for hunting enough to trust them even for a self defense shotgun and while they are really no faster than a pump for a second or third shot they can be operated with one hand if the need arises unlike a pump which requires two hands for that second and following shots.

For me an extended magazine with a roughly 20" or so barrel, night sights, laser and bright light make for a proper home defense shotgun. It can be either pump or semiauto. For sure function it will be fed nothing but top quality factory ammo even tho most of my shotgun shooting is done with reloads my self defense gun will use only factory ammo.

Dee · « **Reply #6 on:** February 02, 2010, 07:04:19 AM »

Quote from: drdougrx on February 02, 2010, 03:12:26 AM

Well Dee...incorrigible. common sense and the voice of experience...yet again!! Tbmaker...listen to Dee...I have an ithaca 37 deerslayer deluxe with fancy wood, rifle sights, 20" barrel and no disconnector...fancy riot gun whose sights I can see ... which really is the point.

"INCORRIGIBLE"? Good grief drdougrx, you just cut me to the bone. I will probably need some sort of counciling after one of my heros has now termed me incorrigible.

I'm gonna go eat some dirt.

LEO · « **Reply #7 on:** February 02, 2010, 07:32:30 AM »

For home defense the sights the gun came with will be more than adequate, spend the money on a good quality gun mounted light as that is far more useful than a holographic sight on a home defense shotgun, as it allows for positive target identification and target disorientation. Plus the fewer projections to get hung up on stuff the better off you are. Practice with the gun until it is like an extension of your arm, load it with OO buck and you are prepared to defend your home and loved ones, slugs are overpenatrive in a building but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have at least a couple in your sidesaddle in case you need to shoot through something. Avoid the birdshot unless you live somewhere where you are 100 percent positive that the bad guy or guys will not have on a heavy coat it lacks the penetration to be effective, (I know some are howling in protest but read the actual studies) it leaves a nasty surface wound in many cases but that may or may not stop the assialant and remember you have the rest of your life to do that in a home defense situation. Under stress simplier is most always better.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2010, 08:22:30 AM »

I have a 870 set up like Dee's almost my front sight is factory . I would add a white piece of tape to the bbl just back from the muzzle as most encounters are at night and the tape allows you to see the end of the bbl easier without taking your eyes off the threat.

Brett · « **Reply #9 on:** February 02, 2010, 10:13:41 AM »

Again the KISS method is the way to go here. For a home defense (not riot) shotgun I want a short, relatively lite shotgun with few gimmicks and gadget to snag on things or to fail when I need them most.

Barrel length of around 18" w/ improved cylinder (works well with slugs or shot).
Extended magazine tube to hold at least six rounds at the ready.
Straight fore arm with integral Hi intensity LED flashlight or at least a way to mount a HI- LED flashlight. I kind of like a pistol grip butt stock. I think they give you more to hold onto should you get into a wrestling match over it with a perp. I like the colapsable AR M4 type stocks.
I like GB's idea of the hi-vis night sites.

Here is a link to a supplier for some ideas: http://www.tacticalshotgunaccessories.com/commandarms/tri-railforend.htm

1marty · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2010, 03:27:43 PM »

Most gun fights take place at 7 yards. When they hear you rack that shot gun very few bad guys are going to stay around.

Dee · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2010, 03:42:09 PM »

Your distance is correct, BUT! I've personally experienced that "pump the shotgun myth" and he'll run away, to be pure fantacy. Not everyone is afraid of shotgun, and many (especially the young ones) don't think you have the sand to use it.
I have performed that manurever numerous times and watched the perp stand his ground, and dare me or another to use it.
They've come into the home, knowing there is a possiblity of confrontation with the owner, and they came anyway.
If you pump that shotgun you had better be in the right, and willing to use it, or the "bad guy" may take it away from you, and use it on "you". When the guns come out, no one should be bluffing.

tbmaker · « **Reply #12 on:** February 02, 2010, 06:19:29 PM »

Thanks for all the replies.
The house is an old 2 story farmhouse, all 4 bedrooms face a central staircase and landing area.
Feel sorry for any idiot caught coming up the stairs, between my 2 sons bedroom doors and mine we cover the area from 3 different angles.
This shotgun started just as a working receiver and have putting it together piece by piece.
In real life this shotgun will see way more action with midnight issues in the chicken coop than home invaders.
Had one in June, had a pistol grip stock at the time, glaring problem reaching for the safety as mister skunk was running away, back to standard synthetic stock. Still considering changing back to standard forearm also.
Since having eye surgery my night vision is terrible so I what a visual reference point to know where the barrel is pointing.
Graybeards hi vis night sight is a good idea as well.
Another challege after surgery is my left eye has a tendency of taking over, having shot trap and skeet for many years with both eyes open it possed an issue which was solved with some tape over the left lense.
So the holo sight brings my sight picture directly in front of the right eye while the left takes in the bigger picture.
Totally understand about getting a good flashlight mounted.

Thanks again.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2010, 04:18:33 AM »

I have a Winchester pump with 22" barrel, rifle sights and choke tubes. It has an 8 round mag which is probably a bit ridiculous. I replaced the front sight with a Meprolite tritium bead for low light use. I consider it mainly a hunting gun but it stands in a cabinet in the bedroom, ready for things that go bump in the night. I've gotten 6" groups at 100 yards with S&B slugs and if I were honest with myself I could probably hunt the rest of my life with just that one gun and not be terribly handicapped. But what would be the fun in that?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2010, 07:30:37 AM »

A white light can be a bad thing as much as good . Do you want to light up a child with your gun pointed at them ? If two are attacking you and you light up one your light is a target for the other .

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2010, 08:58:57 AM »

Something along the lines of a Meprolite night site from a pistol would seem ideal to me.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2010, 09:01:33 AM »

I have a night sight on a M1-A and it is nice but trying to find it while facing down attackers in the dark would be slow . I will stick to the white tape or white rag tied to the end of the bbl. BIG AND EASY TO PICK UP .

sachel.45 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2010, 09:23:22 AM »

the light is for identfying your target clearly if you light up your kid then you dont shoot problem solved however if you light up an intruder then shoot. you have to identfy your target

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2010, 09:50:23 AM »

Yes I understand the mechanics , But being awakened in the night and grabing a gun pointing it a possible target and then having to turn on the light and manage safety trigger control at the same time in a high stress situation might make for a good screw up unless you have run that drill 800 to a 1000 times before . Buying a shotgun strapping on lights , mags , side saddles , sights , new tatical what ever does not make one safe in the deployment of a weapon . Just wanted to point that out so someone would not assume the light came with out limitations and dangers. In his home the defender should know the location of light switches and use them to his advantage and only allow his muzzle cover a threat. As a side most people see the threat , a bat a gun etc not always the person holding it in a high stress moment would you know a family member if you threw the light on one holding a gun or bat doing the same as you defending the home ? How fast can you decide after just being woke up ? Glasses ?

Noreaster · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2010, 10:52:18 AM »

I hear what your saying with using your white light and illuminating the wrong people or searching with a muzzle, but what are the alternatives? Using a hand light and manipulating the shotgun with one hand, to include aiming/pointing and working the action with one hand. Or not using a light at all?

Just begging for trouble with that one.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2010, 11:06:34 AM »

A hand gun make some sense while moving in the confines of a house . One had on the gun and the other on the light . You can hold the light out to the side and if you draw fire you might not be in a direct line . The shotgun is great to ambush someone comming thru the home and as noted use the house lights to your advantage .
Any time you go hunting for the invader you comprise yourself . As any noise you make will alert your position . So if at all possible sit tight and make him come to you .
There is no good ansewer really as all situations can have their own twist . My point was to make folks aware of what was going on , mainly to point out the value if pratice with the tool . Maybe a broad beam light instead of a narrow one thus allowing you to point the gun off to the side . Maybe you can plan to use house lights etc. To explore all aspects before hand gives you choices . Jumping out of bed and drawing down on your child may unnerve you enough to give the bad guy the jump on you .

45-70.gov · « **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2010, 11:12:57 AM »

i hate that ''you illuminate a family member where is the muzzle''

your light illuminates the whole room
at least a good perimeter around the point of impact

mussle down and look into the forward edge of the beam

light the white ceiling or a wall

better to have 2 hands on your gun with family out front
than jugleing the light and gun with family out front

Graybeard · « **Reply #22 on:** February 03, 2010, 11:24:59 AM »

The whole idea of the white light is that it be bright enough to temporarily blind whoever you point it at and thus temporarily disable them. That buys you time to decide if it's a shoot situation or not.

If you are not practiced enough with your home defense firearm or firearms then you really are not ready to defend your home and in reality you might become one of those statistics the anti's like to talk about where you get it used on you rather than you using it on the bad guy.

Worry not so much about where that muzzle is pointed and at who. The ONLY safety that matters is the one between your ears. You are the only one who's gonna pull that trigger or not pull it and if you aren't up to the task of making that decision then you really are not ready to own and use a firearm for self defense. In which case perhaps you should be using some other non lethal home defense weapon.

Dee · « **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2010, 01:00:51 PM »

In my younger years I taught home defense, to women, and couples that wanted it, usually on weekends, but always Dept sponsored.
I will hold with that teaching in my old age, as the strategy has not changed, and is both practical, and effective, much to the gremlins dismay.
WITH THE EXCEPTION OF IMMEDIATE PERIL TO A FAMILY MEMBER, I do not seek out home invaders. I allow them to seek me out, and they will be rewarded with an appropriate prize at the end of their search. It's just that simple.
With the use of plug in night lights in strategic places, all is well, and will end well. A plan is always available.
If a gremlin enters my house uninvited, he always does so, at his own risk. I live in Texas, and we know what to do with house gremlins down here.
My wife keeps a clean house, and I am not to good to "take out the trash". So to speak.

1marty · « **Reply #24 on:** February 03, 2010, 03:49:02 PM »

Quote from: Dee on February 02, 2010, 03:42:09 PM

Your distance is correct, BUT! I've personally experienced that "pump the shotgun myth" and he'll run away, to be pure fantacy. Not everyone is afraid of shotgun, and many (especially the young ones) don't think you have the sand to use it.
I have performed that manurever numerous times and watched the perp stand his ground, and dare me or another to use it.
They've come into the home, knowing there is a possiblity of confrontation with the owner, and they came anyway.
If you pump that shotgun you had better be in the right, and willing to use it, or the "bad guy" may take it away from you, and use it on "you". When the guns come out, no one should be bluffing.

After spending 1969 to 1970 in Vietnam I'm not shy about "using" my home defense shotgun. I doubt I'd break a sweat.

Dee · « **Reply #25 on:** February 03, 2010, 04:11:20 PM »

Probably not.

superpig1047 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 05, 2010, 06:10:52 PM »

I would recommend a remington 870 w/ a 18-20" barrel +2 mag extention and a plain jane synthetic stock. However for a defensive gun of anytime I would strongly recommend a light laser combo. You should look at lasermax's light laser shotgun combo it's under $200. I don't know if it strobes like some tactical flashlight's do but that is another option to look at due to the ability to "bleach the retna" of the attacker and disorient them and buys you time to move to a diffrent location w/o the attacker knowing where you moved to. The laser will also allow you to be accurate in unorthodox shooting situations/positions and allow you to pie (search/enter a room) a door easier with faster target accusition. It also has a pressure switch which gives the shooter the ability to do momentary bursts of light to move/navigate a building and not have a constant beam to give their location away when clearing a house. I'm on a tactical team and as the entry man I have a Rem LEO 870 w/ a 14" barrel, mag extention and this same sight. It's very very helpful. JMO

jeep08ham · « **Reply #27 on:** February 06, 2010, 05:06:37 PM »

Dee has the right answers along with Graybeard. I really appreciate reading and learning from their wisdom. I know everytime I come to this forum, I pick up some jewels or am reminded of them. Thanks to all.

bluecow · « **Reply #28 on:** February 12, 2010, 03:48:59 AM »

]PLUS 1 DEE! bunker down with loved ones behind and wait. dont go looking for it. Forget bluffing! The sound of a pump shotgun.... the bad guy today are diferent than just 10 yrs ago. today every sob from skinner to killer is a "gandsta". he's got to prove it every day, even the pc cases ( protective custody) walk around with " you dont know who i am" attitude, and telling every one that can hear that same thing. if you pick up a gun the bs is over. dont shoot if you can help it but no bluffing. i like my shotgun simple with no gadgits yet ill take a light on the barrel every time. sure it will see more use agenst 4 legged varmints... but thats why also we have fire insurance... just in case.

Savage · « **Reply #29 on:** February 12, 2010, 10:15:03 AM »

For a home defense shotty, my preference is a Remington 1100 with a 20" barrel, synthetic furniture, +2 extension, and a high lumen white light. That's it, period. I don't need or want rails, lasers, ghost rings, or broom handles on mine. I consider the weapons light a necessity. Any other garbage hanging off the gun is just useless weight. IMO I realize that no one wants to point a gun at anything they don't intend to shoot. Problem is, in the real world you really do have to identify your target to make sure you don't shoot someone that doesn't need to be shot. As a LEO I have pointed my weapons at numerous persons that I didn't shoot. Never once did I accidentally shoot any of them. A hand held light is a real handicap when deploying a long gun.
Savage