Author Topic: GUN MAKER KBI / CHARLES DALY CLOSES DOORS (Read 2561 times)

Brett · « **on:** February 02, 2010, 04:29:29 AM »

GUN MAKER KBI / CHARLES DALY CLOSES DOORS . . . Harrisburg, Pa.-based firearms manufacturer and importer KBI/Charles Daly is going out of business, President Michael B. Kassnar announced on the company's Web site. "I wish to thank all of you that have supported our company, Charles Daly and all the other fine firearms that we have sold over the years. This spells the end of KBI, but I imagine it will certainly not mean the end of Charles Daly and CD Defense. Look for this excellent brand to resurface in the very near future," Kassnar said.

Old Grizz · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2010, 07:43:05 AM »

Makes you wunder who's next!!!!

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2010, 10:28:44 AM »

Charles Daly has never really been a manufacturer of anything. They are importers or have been mostly in the long career of the name. I'm confident it will continue on with someone else buying rights to use the name. It has traded hands several times in my life time and isn't likely to die off.

I'm unsure of this Kassnar/KBI outfit. I've heard of them but again am not sure how much of a manufacturer they were. Most products I've seen associated with the name were cheap imports.

Still CD is an old and respected brand name that has changed hands many times and will do so again. It's not likely to die and as in the past it won't be a manufacturer of anything but merely a brand name stamped on products made by the lowest bidder.

Questor · « **Reply #3 on:** February 02, 2010, 10:42:41 AM »

I think this is one of those cases where the trade mark will be bought by somebody eventually and they'll start selling guns under the Charles Daly name again because of the brand recognition.

MGMorden · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2010, 12:54:40 PM »

Quote from: Questor on February 02, 2010, 10:42:41 AM

I think this is one of those cases where the trade mark will be bought by somebody eventually and they'll start selling guns under the Charles Daly name again because of the brand recognition.

I have no doubt that this will probably happen - though I question why. It seems that most of the recognition built around Charles Daly has been negative. They've certainly imported some models that were good, but they have also imported enough lemons to sour their name. And since they actually have their name printed on it all it reflects back on them. Places like Century Arms for example, who import the guns but still promote them under the original manufacturer's names, don't suffer that same problem.

Oh well.

30-30man · « **Reply #5 on:** February 02, 2010, 02:35:25 PM »

KBI only imported mostly from Turkey. I have a 12ga Maxi-Mag pump that I am very fond of. It cycles and shoots better than all of my Remington 870s. There customer service was really good. They sent me a free turkey choke one time just for asking if they offered one. I bet the lifetime warranty they offered is caput now. I found out later that the chokes for the Remington 870 and the CD pumps were the same.

MGMorden · « **Reply #6 on:** February 02, 2010, 03:37:15 PM »

Quote from: 30-30man on February 02, 2010, 02:35:25 PM

KBI only imported mostly from Turkey. I have a 12ga Maxi-Mag pump that I am very fond of.

I have that same gun - but it snaps once out of every 15 shots or so. Light primer strikes. Been meaning to send it in but never got around to it. That time might be past now

.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 02, 2010, 03:48:53 PM »

I'm curiuos what the real issue is with KBI/CD?? With all the increased demand for firearms, its hard to understand a demand problem in their target market. I would think they would have a hard time meeting the demand with supply. Since they really are just an importer, I wonder if they lost supply support from one of the major off-shore manufactures?? There's a number of supply chain issues a pure importer faces like CD. Again, I'm really curious what the failure is. EAA is another company with a similar business model to CD. Wonder how they are doing.

30-30man · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2010, 04:47:44 PM »

Quote from: MGMorden on February 02, 2010, 03:37:15 PM

Quote from: 30-30man on February 02, 2010, 02:35:25 PM
KBI only imported mostly from Turkey. I have a 12ga Maxi-Mag pump that I am very fond of.

I have that same gun - but it snaps once out of every 15 shots or so. Light primer strikes. Been meaning to send it in but never got around to it. That time might be past now .

Mine did the same thing and I sent it back. It works good now as I think they replaced the springs. The only thng I don't like about it is the safety. Sometimes the safety can be partially pushed and not all the way in by mistake. The gun will fire unless the safety is fully depressed. This hasn't been an issue, but I won't loan this gun out because of it.

williamlayton · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2010, 04:27:14 AM »

Import rules changes?
Manufacturing problems?
Doesn't matter---it is what it is.
Blessings

Bigeasy · « **Reply #10 on:** February 03, 2010, 04:46:40 AM »

At one time, didn't Charles Daly actually manufacture high quality shotguns?

Larry

Cabin4 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2010, 04:48:14 AM »

Seems to matter to me. What causes a business to fail in a booming industry leaves me with questions that I would think many other gun enthusiasts would like to understand. Was it an import regulatory change? If so, was the regulatory change targeted at gun importers? How can this not matter to you/us? Or was it just a failure of their overall business model? Was it an off-shore manufacture that was pressured to cease exporting their guns which CD was dependant on? What caused this manufacture to cease exporting? Was it pressure from the UN on that country that led to this export stoppage? Was is pressure from the White House or State Dept? Was CD under pressure from the BATF and they were making thier business life horrible?

How anyone can just say,"it is what it is", in the face of glaring unanswered questions, to many may be perceived as a clear indication of your commitment (or lack their of) to the 2nd amendment. Now all this may just be a bad business model or poor execution of that model at CD just like it was over at DW. I don't know but sure would like to know if possible. Maybe the questions I posed will allow you to rethink this.

Questor · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2010, 04:55:18 AM »

I don't know what happened, but Charles Daly has had such a checkered history of incarnations that nothing would surprise me. They've tried selling budget guns, then tried higher end guns. I think they are more a victim of competition and an unusual business model that is intermittently successful.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2010, 04:59:46 AM »

Avery-

For a laundry list long list of reasons, thousands of businesses in this country go out of business every year. It's just the way it is. With absolutely no evidence to the contrary, there is no reason to assume nefarious doings in the demise of KBI, and certainly no reason to questions Williams support of the Constitution, or the second amendment.

Larry

scootrd · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2010, 05:14:55 AM »

Quote from: Bigeasy on February 03, 2010, 04:59:46 AM

Avery-

For a laundry list long list of reasons, thousands of businesses in this country go out of business every year. It's just the way it is. With absolutely no evidence to the contrary, there is no reason to assume nefarious doings in the demise of KBI, and certainly no reason to questions Williams support of the Constitution, or the second amendment.

Larry

Yep .. How true..
The Architectural firm my Uncle was emplyed with for 28 years closed it's doors. Seems the Big wigs couldn't stop squandering their profits on lavish items such as yachts, vacations , cruises, expensive diners , always flying first class and such. They stopped putting monies back into the firm, advertising , developing long term contracts , gaining new clients etc.. and it eventually went belly up.

Good news is my uncle left and took a bunch of clients he had built a relationship with over the years with him when he was forced to become independent.

bearmgc · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2010, 05:21:07 AM »

I personally won't miss CD, but don't like to see any gun business go away.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2010, 05:38:04 AM »

Heck who knows, the President Michael B. Kassnar, may be getting out while the getting is good. As most of us are aware "Now" aint a good time to be in business since the government is doing everything it can to kill capitalism right now!

Cabin4 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2010, 07:09:19 AM »

Jobs are evaporating in this country by the millions, businesses are going broke at record pace, horrible federal & state fiscal policy and government corruption is driving business, out of business. The feds are playing games to put those in the gun business, out of business. There is a full frontal assault on the gun industry and it's parallel business sectors underway.

Everything is just fine. Life goes on. I will perform some introspective analysis of myself. There must be something wrong with me for wanting to know what's wrong with our broken country, failing economy and the assault on the gun industry and how it may connect to CD.

-Thinking
-Thinking
-Pondering
-Amazed......conclusion.

I've completed the self analysis and I now know what’s wrong. Thanks for all the insightful feedback!

jcn59 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2010, 07:38:41 AM »

I'm expecting some interesting history to be made inside of the next ten years. Be patient. Our country has saved itself from tyrannical rule before, we can do it again. Watch and see. It will start in November.

I see that Menards, a "big box" store was recently advertising an "American Made Goods" sale.

I've asked Cabelas about carrying more domestic goods a couple times but they are not interested. They are primarily an import house these days. If you have to buy Cabelas, just buy their bottom-dollar sale items, nothing else. jmo

williamlayton · « **Reply #19 on:** February 04, 2010, 03:40:53 AM »

C4
It is what it is, is not a condemnation of any costitutional right.
It is what it is---I don't know why I am explaing this too someone that appears to be an adult--is saying what is done is done.
I don't know the reasons---maybe they just got tired of the business and got out---I DON"T KNOW.
You pick the silliest, most immature things to fight about.
Amazing!
Blessings

Brett · « **Reply #20 on:** February 04, 2010, 04:41:55 AM »

I don't think C4 is picking any fights. I think he is just trying to make a point. That being that our own apathy is what is behind this countries downfall. The US work force's 'it is what it is' attitude is why foreign manufacturers are killing our domestic companies in quality and value. It's also the same reason we continue to reelect the same thieves and imbeciles to positions in government. It's the same reason our school systems are falling behind other developed nations. The 'there's nothing I can do about it', que sera sera position we as a nation have taken in general has dragged us to the brink of destruction.

Should we care if or be concerned why CD, or any American company, folds? Heck yeah we should! If it's because Mr. Kassnar wants to spent his golden years on a golf course enjoying himself, that's terrific. But if it's because government regulation or foreign manufacturing has made it impossible for CD to operate at a profit then we need to voice our outrage and force some changes. Whether it be to get to the polls and elect pro 2A government officials who will pass or repeal laws that would benefit American gun manufacturers or place heavier taxes on all imported goods so that all American manufactures can stay here and still compete with foreign companies.

Sorry for the rant... I'll step off the soapbox now. Doesn't matter what I think anyway because whatever will be will be, right?

Oldshooter · « **Reply #21 on:** February 04, 2010, 05:39:33 AM »

Yep, what it is, is what it is!

I understand the complaint, I think most of us do. There are those out here that are doing what they know how to do, and think is the right thing to do. But we have little power to make happen it overnight, this debacle did not raise its ugly head overnight and it wont be cleansed overnight either.

I'm betting its like GB said, Somebody will pick up the ball and run with it if it looks profitable. Its the American Way, pre obama anyway!

Cabin4 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 04, 2010, 05:55:20 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton on February 04, 2010, 03:40:53 AM

C4
It is what it is, is not a condemnation of any costitutional right.
It is what it is---I don't know why I am explaing this too someone that appears to be an adult--is saying what is done is done.
I don't know the reasons---maybe they just got tired of the business and got out---I DON"T KNOW.
You pick the silliest, most immature things to fight about.
Amazing!
Blessings

William,

The only immature non-adult actions going on here are your "it is what it is" comments, complete lack of caring, inability to rationalize someone else’s desire for reasonable answers and your complete lack of ability to see the larger picture at hand. YOUR proclamation of "NOT KNOWING" further substansiants this and demonstrates an admitted lack of basic business knowledge, current macro and micro economic impacts or the assault on the gun industry.

Further, you accuse me of being immature and non-adult yet your only input to this thread thus far has been completely meaningless, adds no value to the topic posted and has only served to bait for an argument.

Sweet dreams William.

williamlayton · « **Reply #23 on:** February 04, 2010, 09:10:26 AM »

C4
This is the most odd conversation I have ever had with an adult--it is like trying to explain to a two year old.
"Is what it is" carries NO emotion or judgement.
There was an article saying what happened and someone wondering why.
I don't know why.
The article is what it is.
Would knowing the circumstances solve the problem that has already happened?
My caring/lack of caring is not exhibited in the statement---you picked up on that decision.
I think it would have been more appropriate to ask me directly---then you can hammer me for whatever answer I gave with at least some symbolance of intelligence---not much, from the way this conversation has evolved but at least you could hammer away.
You don't even know how I feel about this business closing its doors.
I don't either, as a matter of fact, for I don't know the circumstances to make a decision.
Blessings

Questor · « **Reply #24 on:** February 04, 2010, 09:18:05 AM »

williamlayton:

The Hungarians have a phrase, nincs miert, which is used as an exclamation in cases like this. It approximately means "there is no why".

The closest U.S. equivalent is "That's the way it is".

jcn59 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 04, 2010, 10:27:20 AM »

Mr. Layton,

Scholar and gentleman that you are, you touched a nerve with many of the readers when you said "It is.....". Many of us have strong feelings about the closing of another American manufacturing facility or other American business, often without regard to the reason. In the past, say the 1950s, (you remember) we could spend our way out of a recession but not any more. Today if we spend money at the biggest retailer in the world, namely China-Mart, some obscure factory on the other side of the world just adds another 12 year-old to their assembly line to keep up with the demand.

And my neighbor is still out of work, because the car dealer where she worked went out of business after over 50 years. And the gov't. tried to tempt her to buy a new car by baiting her with $4500. of my tax dollars for a down payment. And my nephew is losing his house while the gov't. pays off the banks with my tax dollars for laundering their money for the last 9 years.

We're pi$$ed, Mr. Layton. Not at you; you just got into the "line of fire".

Cabin4 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 04, 2010, 10:33:53 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton on February 04, 2010, 09:10:26 AM

C4
This is the most odd conversation I have ever had with an adult--it is like trying to explain to a two year old.
"Is what it is" carries NO emotion or judgement.
There was an article saying what happened and someone wondering why.
I don't know why.
The article is what it is.
Would knowing the circumstances solve the problem that has already happened?
My caring/lack of caring is not exhibited in the statement---you picked up on that decision.
I think it would have been more appropriate to ask me directly---then you can hammer me for whatever answer I gave with at least some symbolance of intelligence---not much, from the way this conversation has evolved but at least you could hammer away.
You don't even know how I feel about this business closing its doors.
I don't either, as a matter of fact, for I don't know the circumstances to make a decision.
Blessings

William,

So admittedly your only objective was to respond to the questions I posed with the "it is what is" comment and you expected me to do exactly what? I actually asked real questions. You shove that dumb comment at me as an answer to the real questions I presented here for input and you demand that thread was suppose to stop at that point! Perfect.

Can I ask you a couple of question? What in the heck are you doing in a thread you admittedly can’t add an ounce of real input or value? Baiting for an argument and road blocking discussion. Is this your idea of being an adult? I would think nothing of adding to a thread I had no interest in, but you, apparently not. I suppose the adult role, as defined by you is to run around GBO and stifle discussion.

Is it possible for you to allow this thread to get back on track for those actually interested in answers?

Brett · « **Reply #27 on:** February 04, 2010, 10:46:17 AM »

The following is the announcement that Mr. Kassnar posted on the Charles Daly web site. Unfortunately he does not go into any detail as to why the closing. Perhaps more information could be found on the forum he mentions in his statement.

To all our friends, fans, supporters and consumers of Charles Daly and by extension, KBI products, I regret to inform you that the rumors of our demise are true.

KBI is going out of business and closing its doors, effective today, January 29, 2010.

I don't want to go into each and every detail as to why this has occurred, except to say that there have been a multitude of events over the past five years that have contributed to our current situation.

For those of you with ongoing service requirements please be advised that we are currently negotiating with several companies that will be performing after-sale service of Charles Daly, CD Defense and Jericho firearms. As soon as we have finalized a contract with one of these companies we will post the name, address and contact details of that company on www.CharlesDalyForum.com, so you will know who to contact to obtain service on your KBI firearm.

Again, I wish to thank all of you that have supported our company, Charles Daly and all the other fine firearms that we have sold over the years.. This spells the end of KBI but I imagine it will certainly not mean the end of Charles Daly® and CD Defense™. Look for this excellent brand to resurface in the very near future.

Sincerely,
Michael B. Kassnar, President
K.B.I., Inc.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #28 on:** February 04, 2010, 11:52:46 AM »

Everyone is upset about an issue they have no real facts on. I took a little time today to read several forums KBI President Mr. Kassnar posted on. On one of them he was asked about the discontinued Charles Daly line of mauser rifles (made in Serbia) Mr Kassnar replied with the statement he believed Remington had traveled to the Serbian factory and talked them into cancelling their contract with KBI to distribute the rifle line and switching to Remington as a distributor. Mr. Kassnar strongly implied it was an example of one gun company trying to put another out of business. Now I hear Remington has discontinued the 597 / 598 series of Serbian Mausers from it line up. Looks like the Chinese may be innocent of this one....

Larry

Graybeard · « **Reply #29 on:** February 04, 2010, 12:27:16 PM »

All this talk of an "American manufacturer" going out of business misses the point that CD is not and really never has been a manufacturer and really is not and has not been a truly American Company either.

It's just a name and as I've said it has been passed around to several different owners over the last 30 years or more I've been familiar with it. The name has always been asscociated with importers of foreign made goods. More recently under Kassnar as owner they have bought up some American made parts and assembled some ARs here but that still doesn't make them a really American company nor a manufacturer in the true sense.

Just like every other time someone has owned the name and run the products into the ground it will be purchased by someone and the name will yet again be plastered onto imported items and most likely yet again in the near future that new owner will again run it into the ground and it will fold yet again.