Author Topic: Hornady 250 grain FTX... (Read 2469 times)

sabotloader · « **on:** February 05, 2010, 11:44:14 AM »

This has always been a problem for me with Hornady bullets. It started years ago when I was hunting with a Hornady .308/200 Round Nose, shot from a 300 Winchester Mag.

I shot two elk with this bullet and both time I found the copper just under the skin on the entrance side and of course they never exitied. Yes both elk were harvested, so yes I gues the bullet worked but i certainly would not trust it.

When I moved from centerfire to muzzleloader the first bullets I tried were XTP's and the experienced continued. Not always did they strip but on occasion they did. Of course after my ML discovery of the the problem I immediatly switch to Noslers as I had done even for centerfire hunting.

I was shooting some 250 FTX's the other day at the farm and today when I set the target out I found this FTX in the trough in the ground. Shook my head... but I picked it up for pictures. Yes, I know shooting this bullet into wet soil if tough on a bullet but I am not certain howm much tougher it than shooting throught the hide of a bull elk - especially if you strike a major bone.

Fore myself Hornady's are good for shooting paper but I never really trust them when shooting a game animal.

sorry for the heavy yellow color - that is what I get for using a yellow back ground paper....

mirage1988 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2010, 03:44:11 PM »

The 250 grain FTX was designed for the 450 bushmaster, factory loads are 2200 fps at the muzzle. I understand they have a little thicker jacket than the SST's and most guys have been happy with those, no? I'm not doubting your experience, I've only killed 3 animals with a muzzleloader (so far) 2 deer with the 325 grain FTX, and a bear with the 300 grain bonded shockwave. If they are bad bullets I will switch, but they worked very well for me so far.

sabotloader · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2010, 04:57:52 PM »

mirage1988

I do not think I am calling them a 'bad' bullet, I am just saying that for myself I do not totally trust them. I shot 20 of the FTX's that day at the farm and I found that one on top of the ground in the bullet trench. All of the others could have worked just fine.

For myself - I do not want to take that chance when I know there are bullets out there that will stay together.

mirage1988 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2010, 05:21:41 PM »

I guess we'll have to wait until next fall for some more field tests huh?

efremtags · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2010, 03:00:31 AM »

I guess the trade off is, there are better bullets out there, and they cost at least 2x as much. The cup and core style bullets have killed millions of animals in the last 100 years. Old school gun writers would always recommend heavy for caliber size bullets. This did 2 things, it kept velocity manageable, and it insured you have enough bullet weight to insure a dead animal.

For me, rem corelokt a and SST bullets are fine for most game in most guns. If I were to spend 10s of thousands for a hunt of a lifetime, I would likely invest in a better bullet as an insurance policy, but not for normal backyard hunts. It's not worth the extra expense in everyday hunting.

Like you said, you recovered both elk, so at what point is the bullets failure measured. Had you recovered the animal with good bullet placement requiring a half day tracking job, that would qualify as a problem, but you did not provide too much info around the circumstances of your experience. Was that the case.

Forestclimber · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2010, 04:09:47 AM »

I like the 300 grain XTPs, but I have never shot anything larger than deer with them.

sabotloader · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2010, 04:40:07 AM »

efremtags

Quote

Like you said, you recovered both elk, so at what point is the bullets failure measured. Had you recovered the animal with good bullet placement requiring a half day tracking job, that would qualify as a problem, but you did not provide too much info around the circumstances of your experience. Was that the case.

Niether elk (both cows - i think) went that far nor were they difficult to find. I just worried about the time that they might have gone farther - or even worse might not have been found at at all.

I know it was at the point point that I switched to Sierra bullets and Noslers. It was/is/has been a long time ago but I can not ever remember finding a Sierra stripped - but it must be possible!

efremtags · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2010, 10:36:34 AM »

I have heard similar issues with gameking bullets thumbing through posts. I have no personal experience.

I have seen most of the animals in my life time fall to 30-06 180gr SP core-lokt. I can honestly say no animal was ever lost do to bullet performance, just some bad shooting.

simonkenton · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2010, 02:17:43 PM »

You didn't say what muzzleloader you are shooting.
I shoot the Savage. We crank out tremendous muzzle velocity with our smokeless powder.
For instance, with the 250 SST I am getting 2,300 fps. Some of the guys go much higher than that.

So, us Savage guys have problems with bullets tearing up on big game.
Many Savage shooters have had this problem with the Hornady 250 SST, as well as the 250 XTP.
With the Savage, I have read accounts of the 250 SST blowing up on a shoulder shot on a real big deer, and the deer being lost.

To remedy this problem, the Savage guys have switched over to the Hornady 300 XTP. The regular one, not the bonded one.
They get good penetration yet the bullet will hold together pretty well.
I believe this slug would work well for you on an elk.

If not the Hornady 300 XTP, the Savage guys get great results with the all copper Barnes bullets.
Expensive, but even at Savage hyper-velocity, good expansion and the bullet won't blow up.

sabotloader · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2010, 04:20:53 PM »

Quote from: simonkenton on February 07, 2010, 02:17:43 PM

You didn't say what muzzleloader you are shooting.
I shoot the Savage. We crank out tremendous muzzle velocity with our smokeless powder.
For instance, with the 250 SST I am getting 2,300 fps. Some of the guys go much higher than that.

I was shooting a Knight DISC Elite, but I was only using 110 grains of T7-2f, with one sabot I was getting about 1950 fps second and with the other one right at 2000 fps. If I were to up that to 120 grains I would easily be in the 22's

Quote

So, us Savage guys have problems with bullets tearing up on big game.
Many Savage shooters have had this problem with the Hornady 250 SST, as well as the 250 XTP.
With the Savage, I have read accounts of the 250 SST blowing up on a shoulder shot on a real big deer, and the deer being lost.

To remedy this problem, the Savage guys have switched over to the Hornady 300 XTP. The regular one, not the bonded one.
They get good penetration yet the bullet will hold together pretty well.
I believe this slug would work well for you on an elk.

If not the Hornady 300 XTP, the Savage guys get great results with the all copper Barnes bullets.
Expensive, but even at Savage hyper-velocity, good expansion and the bullet won't blow up.

Correct the barnes, nosler, and even the Lehigh are excellent durable bullets.

alsaqr · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2010, 01:58:25 AM »

Never put much stock on how a bullet performs on wet newspaper, clay, wood, mud and rocks, or ballistic gelatin. The 250 grain SST/Shockwave bullet has cleanly killed about 15 deer and dozens of hogs for me and that is all that matters to me. I do not go digging in gut piles to find a bullet that just bang flopped a hog that weighs over 250 pounds.

BIG Dog454 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2010, 05:59:53 AM »

My son and I were using the 300 xtp for ML season, 2 deer were shot with these bullets both required follow up shots to kill. As you have stated, the jackets were shed soon after entry, (we process our own meat). As a result of this findings, I will go to lead cast bullets, which I have used in the past with good results, Using lead pipe for casting. Lead bullets that I have recovered had mushroomed to 3/4 inch or better. These were on deer that were shot head on. Deer that were shot thru the chest cavity, the exit hole was about 1 1/2 inch, and internal damage to lungs etc. was tremendous. Even when the lead bullet hit a rib bone they would continue thru and leave an exit hole. Two holes allow more bleed out. From now on I will shoot only lead form my .50 cal with 100 gr powder.

anweis · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2010, 09:19:33 AM »

Quote from: BIG Dog454 on February 10, 2010, 05:59:53 AM

My son and I were using the 300 xtp for ML season, 2 deer were shot with these bullets both required follow up shots to kill.

That does happen in hunting, and on top of 100 grains of powder you should have used the XTP Mag bullets, which are different from the regular XTP bullets. Besides, the 250 grain FTX are entirely different.
Ya'll may want to check my comments on these bullets in the separate thread. The jist of it is that you need to find out for what velocities were all these bullets designed, and you need to choose a bullet that works.

sabotloader · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2010, 11:43:19 AM »

anweis

It is my belief that Hornady does have a problem with their XTP' XTP Mag, and the FTX,SST,SW... On occasion they will all strip the copper from the lead and sometimes will fail to expand.

I my case both options have happened.

The FTX is designed to be shot at 2200fps - I was shooting 1950/2000 with the FTX...

I know that more animals have been harvested with XTP than any other bullet - but I also know that many of those have stripped on the way in or through an animal. Most have still harvested the animal they were shot into... I just feel you a flipping a coin each time you shoot...

flipajig · « **Reply #14 on:** March 09, 2010, 07:06:52 AM »

Ive thought about using a 260grn FTX that is being sold for the 44-40 I dont know the valsity that the 44-40 runs at but it cant be more than 2200 fps any thoughts on this or has someone already tryed this combo.

Semisane · « **Reply #15 on:** March 09, 2010, 03:41:13 PM »

Quote

I dont know the valsity that the 44-40 runs at but it cant be more than 2200 fps

A 260 grain bullet in a 44-40 rifle tops out around 1450 fps.

flipajig · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2010, 02:12:11 AM »

Well then a ML would run a little to fast for this bullet. (just might shell its skin)
there is still the 220 grn FTX out of my Wichester im shooting a 200JHP at
just over 1800 rpm. I think i will call Hornady to see what they say about the thought.
will give some feed back on the thought.

AndyHass · « **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2010, 02:41:34 AM »

I guess it depends if you care about shooting dirt piles or animals. Me, I value more the people who will put their hunting opportunities out there to test under real-world situations than artificial tests and backstop recoveries.

I've shot well over 60 animals with Hornaday bullets and never had a "failure". I have recovered one that separated and another that almost did, but I had to put a 200SW through both shoulders of deer at 200 yds to both get it to separate and stay in the animal (both were DRT). Have any of those separated at closer range? I don't know, those are the only two that I ever recovered, all the others exited, none ran any real distance, most were DRT. Never lost an animal or even had to look hard. More recently I've put my own opportunities on the line to test the FTX line on game, shooting three animals with them this year, all DRT. The one I recovered (325gr) expanded well and held together solidly and it could not have taken more abuse (frontal shot <20 yds).

If that's "flipping a coin", I'll take my chances....

flipajig · « **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2010, 09:01:10 AM »

well AndyHass I wasnt trying to ruffle feathers or cause problems im a firm beleave in taking clean ethical
KILLS... Ive ran into a valosity isue before with remington coreloc. problem taken care of. thats why im asking questions. some people have tryed things and they dont work it would save time money and posibley
a lost or a ingerd animal. There is only one dumb question and thats the one that is never asked..

Huntsman1 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 11, 2010, 03:43:26 AM »

My 1st experiences were with the 300gr SST`s back when they still had the hard plastic tip. These always worked well for me except on one occasion were I lost my buck, but every other deer I shot was either a bang flop or a run no farther than 50yds. These 300gr SST`s lost thier core about 95% of the time being pushed by 110grs T7 FFG. I now shoot the 250gr FT SST`s with 120grs Pyrodex Select. I`ve taken only two deer with this load, one doe ran around in a circle and dropped dead and my buck (the same one in my avatar) ran 40yds into the bush and dropped dead.
Complete pass thru`s with both deer. With only the one lost buck I will still continue to shoot these outta my TC Encore.