Author Topic: Upper End 45? (Read 1242 times)

mbopp · « **on:** February 07, 2010, 07:06:45 AM »

OK, I had a Gold Cup in my much younger days but never got used to the slab-side. I sold it for what I paid for it and moved on.
Fast forward. I'm loading 45 for a friends Colt Government. I'm getting used to it and may want one. But my criteria includes 2" groups at 25 yards, a decent trigger, and adjustable sights. My guess is I'll be looking at $1000 +/- for an out-of-the-box one. This won't be a CCW and I'm leaning towards full size.
So where do I start? Kimber? Springfield? A Wilson is a bit more than I want to spend. Or maybe I'll start hitting the gun shops for used ones.

Savage · « **Reply #1 on:** February 07, 2010, 08:13:31 AM »

In the price range you quoted, I'd go with the Kimber. In my experience, any of the target models should do the job with proper ammunition. Mine liked the 200 LSWC over 4.8grs of BE.
Savage

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2010, 01:46:45 PM »

I've owned and sold more than I can remember. Ended up with a Kimber, which shoots way better than 2" groups at 25 yards. It's a 4" Pro Carry with night sights. The only problem with that particular gun, is that it likes 185 grn. bullets. I prefer 230's, but the 185's print exactly center with the sights. However, IMO, the most effective factory round to date is the Remington +P 185 Golden Saber. Maybe not good for extended use in the aluminum Kimber, but definitely a potent defense/hunting cartridge.

williamlayton · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2010, 06:58:40 PM »

I have been thinking about how to answer this--from my perspective.
There are a lot of things that can be done (purchased) on a 1911---well any weapon. It is kind of like a truck or a car---loaded means different things to different people.
What I like on my guns, others may not.
I like good internals--solid parts that will withstand or have a reputation for withstanding a lot of abuse.
I like good solid non-adjustable sights---Heinie slant pros are my choice.
I like arched mainsprings.
I like extended mag releases.
I don't like ambi safeties but I do like extended safties.
I like lowered and beveled ejection ports.
I like spurred hammers and I like combat hammers.
I need beavertails on mine.
I want a good solid barrel bushing.
I want a short GI trigger.
I want a good sharp break on a trigger.
I am not into light weight and speed on parts.
I don't like tight guns as in the way tha Ed Bauer makes them tight.
It depends on the grip safety but I like bumps.
I normally buy a gun and have a Smith work it up for me.
Blessings

BoshTank · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2010, 05:43:53 PM »

Quote from: williamlayton on February 08, 2010, 06:58:40 PM

I have been thinking about how to answer this--from my perspective.
There are a lot of things that can be done (purchased) on a 1911---well any weapon. It is kind of like a truck or a car---loaded means different things to different people.
What I like on my guns, others may not.
I like good internals--solid parts that will withstand or have a reputation for withstanding a lot of abuse.
I like good solid non-adjustable sights---Heinie slant pros are my choice.
I like arched mainsprings.
I like extended mag releases.
I don't like ambi safeties but I do like extended safties.
I like lowered and beveled ejection ports.
I like spurred hammers and I like combat hammers.
I need beavertails on mine.
I want a good solid barrel bushing.
I want a short GI trigger.
I want a good sharp break on a trigger.
I am not into light weight and speed on parts.
I don't like tight guns as in the way tha Ed Bauer makes them tight.
It depends on the grip safety but I like bumps.
I normally buy a gun and have a Smith work it up for me.
Blessings

\\

I was about to type the same thing....AAA+++

mbopp · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2010, 12:54:40 AM »

Thanks for the input. A friend of mine has a Government Series 80, 30 years old but almost new I'm trying to get him to sell me. Then - let the mods begin.

1911crazy · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2010, 05:40:15 AM »

A $1,000 1911a1 is a upper end? Man i seen these upper end 1911's range between $1,700 to $3,000. To me a $1,000 1911 is about 1/3rd of the way or 33 1/3% to the upper end.

With the lower priced new 1911's hitting $500 now i think your $1,000 just went to around $1,200+. The jumping up lately.

mbopp · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2010, 09:58:08 AM »

Yeah, I'm finding that out. My wife's gonna wonder why I'm working all the overtime shifts I can get.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2010, 11:02:48 AM »

William had the best ansewer , the short ansewer might be Kimber

williamlayton · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2010, 11:47:28 AM »

I overlooked one thing--being a grip junkie--a good set of sexy grips.

Blessings

wyohandi · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2010, 02:04:34 PM »

Not trying to be an a$$ but I've noticed alot around work and town
that most people these days have a real "name brand" hangup.
Everyone I shoot with HAS to have a kimber or better 1911, why?
I have 2 1911s and I haven't spent $1000 on both of them, one is
a Rock Island the other is a pieces and parts gun seems they all end up that
way anyhow, by the time you add all the "cool stuff" and make them just right.
Both of mine easily meet all your requirements, no one I shoot with outshoots me.
Not even the Les Bauer or Wilson make you a better shot, cool yes, nice definately
better? Not for 99% of the shooting most people do, but maybe that's just me,
I don't drive a Porsche, live in a mansion, or drink champange.
But my stuff all does what it's supposed to, when it's supposed to, and I have
lots left over for ammo and other necessities.

demented · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2010, 11:31:11 PM »

I like doing my own work on 1911's, not leaving things to some factory assembly line to hopefully get right. IMO, one of the best buys in a 1911 is a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec in whatever finish one happens to fancy. Good solid base pistol, accuracy from the box is plenty good enough for it to outshoot most anyone behind the trigger. One of these with 1/2 dozen Wilson SEVEN round magazines will do anything short of IPSC games that a pistol is required to do.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2010, 01:33:45 AM »

nothing wrong with a gold cup. Ive got a colt gold cup and a kimber gold match and i like them both equally. Ive also got a sti trojan and id lump it right in there with the other two. they are all priced simularly and all good guns.

williamlayton · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2010, 01:47:21 AM »

Wyohandi
You were not an ass.
Let's cocentrate on the common ground.
You make the distinction of pieces and parts--and that is what I do also.
You do your own work and I pay to have mine done---if you had paid then you couldn't make that statement--- we both end up on common ground.
The brand name thing---Some have a reputation for a good gun out of the box.
I and you prefer too not trust to reputation.
A good solid frame and slide are what I look for in a start--could be a Caspian or another already made gun.
I don't own or have never shot a RIA. I have done a lot of looking at their history and don't put as much trust in their frames as you do.
Blessings

1911crazy · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2010, 03:57:36 AM »

I always look for the quality of the steel frame. I chose the new auto ordnance 1911 for its 4140 steel frame. I always look at how its made first.

We need to always consider this too wether or not its your new CCW pistol.

One more thing to think about is if its your CCW pistol God forbid if you ever have to use it the Leo's take it away from you wether your right or wrong you lose it. Here it will take a Philadelphia lawyer to get it back and many $$ wasted to do it. The state, the town and city laws do vary.

My point is if anyone is looking for a new CCW pistol I would go with a very low priced gun considering if we ever use it and lose it its not worth the time, the money wasted to go and get it back.

I would be p!ssed off to lose any 1911 because i defended myself.

I pray to God that day never comes but we never know when anything can happen wether its an outside robbery or a home invasion gone bad it can happen at anytime. Were living in tough times now and it seems to be getting even worse lately. My new carry pistol is a Czech CZ82 in 9mm mak at the cost of $189 and it came with two 12rd mags. If i use it and lose it its no big loss. But i did save my life with it. Its just something to think about....food for thought....

If your new $1,000 1911a1 ever becomes your new CCW pistol.

Sorry i had to raise this awareness...

HAMMERHEAD · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2010, 11:31:31 AM »

I've gone through three 1911's in the $900-1,100 range. Colt, Springfield and Kimber. I was not really satisfied with any of them. The Colt (.38 Super) was well made and reliable but not very accurate. It was a little loose in the frame to slide fit and the bushing to barrel fit.
The Kimber (.45acp) was accurate but would not feed hollowpoints.
The Springer (9mm, Brazilian frame) was highly accurate but I rarely got through a magazine without a failure to feed. It had a very rough disconnector hole in the frame, so bad that the slide would often stop on the disconnector on it's return to battery.
After receiving some inheritance (thank you Stanley), I plunked down some money on a Les Baer .38 Super. Now I'm finally satisfied with a 1911. Tightly fitted and highly accurate, but utterly reliable after a short break in.
A Les Baer Premier II in .45acp can be had for about $1,500 new. I think they are the lowest priced of the hand fitted guns out there. For an extra $150, they will guarantee 1.5" groups at 50 yards. I did not opt for that, but my gun shoots as well as I can test.
Plus they are now made in Le Claire Iowa, just a pee downstream from where I live.
I'm happy.

ETA- I thought I should specify about the group in the photo. 1.4" @ 25 yards from a good rest with Remington match bullets in a handload. I'm sure younger eyes/steadier hands could do better, and I don't shoot quite that well standing on my hind legs, but I have had several sub-5 inch groups standing at 50 yards. I'm thinking of using the Baer in IHMSA Field Pistol this year. I never won with a Contender, so why not have more fun and shoot a .38 Super.
The Baer is not a defensive handgun (a less expensive polymer gun does that), it is strictly a serious target shooter for me.

I don't drive a Porsche or live in a mansion but I do like really good Scotch once in a while.

mbopp · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2010, 02:42:29 PM »

Thanks for the replies.
No, it won't be a CCW.
Mostly I'll be loading 200gr cast SWCs in it and a few JHP's for field carry.
I'm going to start perusing the local gun shops, given the current economy I may find a used one.
As far a building one, no offense to anyone but I don't have the inclination, knowledge, or tools to do that. I'd be in over my head.

wyohandi · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2010, 02:49:30 PM »

I guess I just don't appreciate the finer things in life

Just straight meat & potatoes for me, I always tell the
guys I shoot with if they'd spend less on the gun they
could afford enough ammo to learn how to shoot it

Just kiddin of course, if I could afford a top end anything
I'd probably still buy 2 less fancy so I could have one for
each hand

williamlayton · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2010, 07:00:14 PM »

Hammerhead
Most of the things you had problems with could have been corrected for about $50/70 .
Trigger work is about $150
But you are correct--it does add up.
I like that Baer and those Grips. I shoot a friends Baer some and I am just not enamored with what Baer does too tightness.
Blessings

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2010, 01:16:39 AM »

I have a Delta Gold Cup i like , would like to have a Gold Cup in 45 someday .
Guns are much like cars most just want a ride but some want a refined ride .

Savage · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2010, 02:18:44 AM »

I always look for the quality of the steel frame. I chose the new auto ordnance 1911 for its 4140 steel frame. I always look at how its made first.

Of the carbon steels, 4140 is the most common in the manufacture of frames and slides. The big factor in making a quality steel is the heat treating and tempering of the metal. There's where the rather primitive heat treating facilities in some third world regions often produce inconsistent results. I currently have a RIA Tactical in my possession that demonstrates this.
The lower on my specimen is hard, the upper is really soft. I learned this quickly when I was polishing the deep horizontal gouges from the breech face that contributed to the feeding problems. It was so soft, a couple strokes with a flat file and a quick polish with 600 grit was all it took to remove some really ugly gouges. I found a number of other things that required attention. If anyone is interested, I posted them on another recent thread on the RIA. I have no brand fixation, but have found that my odds go way up when I buy from some manufacturers. Kinda hard to ignore that.
Savage

mbopp · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2010, 08:16:49 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 15, 2010, 01:16:39 AM

Guns are much like cars most just want a ride but some want a refined ride.

And that's where I'm at. I don't need a Rolls but I want something better than a Yugo.
Just got back from my dealer. $900 for a new Kimber Target II, $700 for a (lightly) used stainless Clark Colt pin gun. I may come in under budget yet.