444 barrel on rolling block?

[gunther66]

Hello all
I have a remington rolling block in 43 spanish.The latest patent date I can read is 1874(very light stamp)
I also have the opportunity to purchase a Numrich 444 octagon barrel kit.
My questions are:
Is this a safe conversion?
Is this a simple barrel swap?If not,how many hours of gunsmith time are we talking about?
Any knowledgeable input will be appreciated. gunther66

[Rangr44]

[Is this a safe conversion?] - Yes - Provided that there are no defects/cracks in the  breechblock and/or hammer bodies, and the the axle pins are not bent - their receover holes not out-of-round


[Is this a simple barrel swap?] -

Yes, the Numrich kit is "pre-engineered", but.
I don't know if the kit includes a new extractor.  
If not, then the existing extractor will need to be reworked to fit the smaller (.30-06 size) .444 case head/rim.

Additionally, if the kit barrel isn't fully chambered, a .444 chambering reamer will be necessary both for chamber depth and rim/headspace setting.

I cannot speak to how long it would take your gunsmith to install the kit.

.

[gunther66]

Thanks Rangr44
I took the ol'girl out and shot her with bp and it shoots so good I'm not real sure I want to make the conversion.But darn,what a mess when I cleaned her!
If I were to make the switch what level loads could I use?We're talking 300 gr cast here.g66

[Rangr44]

I'm sorry, but I can't help you there - the only .444 reloads I've ever done were 265gr Hornady JSP's for a Marlin .444, back (late 60's) when the only factory .444 fodder available was Remington stuff that used .44 Mag 240gr slugs which blew up on the deer I was lucky (?) enough to shoot with it.

.

[Huffmanite]

gunther66,  Welcome to the family of 43 Spanish Argentine Rolling Block Shooters.  I've had one of them since the late 1960s.  I don't shoot mine that much, but here are some suggestions if you wish to switch from black powder to smokeless.  First, the published load data for the original antique trap door 45-70 rifles, or better yet the .43 Mauser, is pretty close to the proper load data for the 43 Spanish, so you can use it for a guide for reloading.

  Heck, back in the late 60s I actually used to shoot 43 Mauser ammo, made in Canada for use in the 1871 Mauser, in my 43 Spanish RB.  Something  I certainly do not encourage you do, but it furnished me the brass needed for reloading.

Can't remember for sure what powder and load I used for 370 gr cast bullets back in the 60s, but it may have been 13gr of Unique.  If it was Unique, then I had a hoot of a time shooting at a bank of sand in a creek several hundred yards away from.  Shoot, set down rifle, pick up binoculars and wait for bullet to hit the bank of sand.  You'd think I was firing a mortar the way I had rear sight raised up to shoot that distance with the load.

I got back into shooting/reloading about 5 years ago and now load my 370gr cast bullets with other smokeless powders/loads.  Using load data from "Cartirdges of the World, I used 40 grains of IMRs 3031 powder with a 370 gr cast lead bullet, which should be OK for your 300 grain bullet. 

My Lee reloading Manual shows for your 300 gr cast bullet:
   40.5 gr of H4895 as a start load and 48.4 as max
 27 gr of H4198 as a start load with 31.8 as max.
  36 gr of Varget with 42.7 gr as max.
  25.1 gr of Accurate XMP5744 as start and 29.4 as max.

Hodgdon 45-70 trap door data for the IMR Trail Boss powder is 14 gr start and 16.5 max. with the 300 gr cast bullet.  This should be just fine with your RB.

So, smokeless powder data for the 43 Spanish RB is available.

I do recommend the XMP5744 or Trail Boss powders.  Both are less case sensitive and better suited for the large brass case of the 43 Spanish.

By the way, your 43 Spanish caliber Rolling block should be the 1879 Argentines RBs.  It was dumped in the U.S. market in the late 50s and 60s.  LOL, I paid $35 for mine about 1967 and it was in mint condition. 

 

[gunnut69]

If the rifle shoots well as is I'd advise using it as is. They are getting harder to find in a reasonabley good condition. Also I would add that if you decide to proceed it might be a good ifea to bush the firing pin. The pin in this roller is likely a BP size and a smaller one would be desireable. As to loads I would not generate loads producing much over 15,000 PSI as even in good condition these were built for blackpowder pressures. Of course that said the rolling blocks make great shooters and consistant performers in the BPCR matches. Higher pressure loads such as the 7x57 Mauser were really hard on these rifles and I've seen many with excessive headspace in this caliber.. The 444 with a 300 grain bullet is a potent rifle and the rollers are tough as nails.. Good luck.

[Rangr44]

OOOOOPS !   I disremembered bushing the firing pin when switching from a BP cartridge to smokeless       DUH    - Thanks for having my back, GN69 !  

.

[gunther66]

Thanks Guys
I guess I should digest this and make haste slowly.g66