The Downfall of America & Why The Independent Can't Save It.

[Dee]

It occurred to me this morning while watching Fox News (the fair and balanced one ) that regardless of the rhetoric of the Republican voter, or the Democratic voter, or the Independent voter, America is doomed to becoming a has been, third world power.
Fox News was interviewing Newt Gingrich former Republican Speaker of the house, and I "ONCE AGAIN" was reminded of the hypocritical mockery of politics, and the BLIND FAITH, AND LACK OF MEMORY, of the American voter.

As Republicans, and Independents, we all know of the scandalous behavior of the Obamas, the Edwards, the Kerrys, the Kennedys, and on and on in the Democratic Party YET!
The Republican HOWEVER, CONVENIENTLY FORGETS OR IGNORES, the dogs of the Republican Party, and their lying, cheating ways, and continually takes their advice, listens, and takes heed to their philosophy, and habitually votes them BACK into office.
Gingrich led the way with the Contract with America, yet the Republicans folded on their promise. When Clinton was being "publicly chastised" by the entire Republican Party LED BY GENGRICH for his Monica Lewinsky affair, Gingrich was boinking a young lady by the name of Bisek. He got caught, and left Congress in disgrace.
Recently he endorsed the Republican Candidate in New York, but when the INDEPENDENT pulled ahead of her, SHE ENDORSED THE DEMOCRAT. So much for ALLEDGED Conservatism.

My Point? Why do ALLEDGED Conservatives still think this man would be a good Presidential Candidate? He is a Republican FIRST! And an American SECOND! The "REPUBLICAN ATTITUDE" in New York was: IF THE REPUBLICAN CAN'T HAVE IT, THEN THE DEMOCRAT GETS IT! ALL OTHERS ARE OUT!

Now let us look at John McCain. In his first bid for the Presidency he was OPENLY ANTI-2nd Amendment, and was rejected. His voting record in the Senate at the time was pretty much what it is now 71+% AGAINST the 2nd Amendment. He later went on to TEAM UP with Democratic Senator Russ Feingold and they together conjured up the McCain-Feingold Act attacking none other than the 1st Amendment.
In his SECOND bid for the Presidency he had become MIRACULOUSLY "FOR" the 2nd Amendment although his voting record proved other wise. And as a side note the then SITTING PRESIDENT GW BUSH, had offered to sign into permanent law the Clinton Assault Weapons Ban. He too was a REPUBLICAN.
During Mr. McCains second run, HE CANCELLED HIS CAMPAGIN, and rushed back to Washington to take partial credit for the BAILOUTS, and Mr. Bush against the wishes of quite literally everyone in the government, AND THE COUNTRY, single handedly bailed out the auto industry the first time. I would remind you he was, and is, A REPUBLICAN.
But with all this PROOF, that REPUBLICAN JOHN MCCAIN, is not a Conservative, and WANTS TO STEAL YOUR GUNS, AND SILENCE YOU AS A PEOPLE, the ALLEDGED Conservative voter saw him as LESS OF A THREAT, as the Democratic candidate. How odd a conclusion, given the evidence.
There are now, discussion threads on possible other candidate, from Palin to Romney, but Palin still seems infatuated with McCain, and Romney DID IN MASSACHUSETTES, what Obama is TRYING to do in the US.
In the next presidential election and Congressional elections there will be INDEPENDENT candidates that FULLY SUPPORT, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, but the American voter will once again vote for the lessor of two evils further ensuring the eventual complete sell out of our Freedom, in however small or large increments, with the end results being the same, whether they give them to Democrats or Republicans.
The American Voter will continually elect the John McCains of America because they "SAY" they are Conservative, but are not. And then the American Voter will write the check to organizations like the NRA, to protect them from the John McCains they elected to steal those rights. It is a never ending circle of JOB SECURITY for both the politicians, and the NRA.
The INDEPENDENT IS NOT "VIABLE", BECAUSE THE "VOTER" IS NOT "VIABLE", BUT IS INSTEAD! FICKLE & WISHY-WASHY!
Now I will be told here shortly on this thread, that I am dogmatic in my continual repetitive voicing this belief, and I plead GUILTY AS CHARGED. I will be told, I am UNREALISTIC toward the Independent, but I am not. I agree that they cannot be elected, and the proof is clear as to why they cannot.
HOWEVER! I "DO" believe in the Constitution of the United States, and I "DO" believe in the Bill of RIGHTS!, And I WILL NOT compromise either in my voting, but because of them, THE AMERICAN VOTER COLLECTIVELY, are free to continue voting AGAINST BOTH DOCUMENTS.
THE INDEPENTENT PATRIOTIC LOYALIST TO THE CONSTITUTION WILL NOT WIN, BECAUSE THE VOTER WILL NOT "VOTE WITH LOYALITY" TO THAT DOCUMENT.

ANYONE WHOM WILL TRADE LIBERTY, FOR A LITTLE SECURITY, DESERVES NEITHER!    BENJAMIN FRANKLIN

[nomosendero]

Dee, one of the reasons that they will not "vote with loyality" to that document is that they do not know the document.

I agree that most likely the Independent cannot save America. I watched an interview with Ron Paul not long ago & he stated that he did not feel a 3rd party candidate can win. Also a couple of days later, the head of the Tea Party said the same thing. There's 2 sources that should have a pretty good handle on the situation.

So, one of two things would have to occur.
1. More overall disgust than most people expect of the 2 big parties by the American people & an extreme shift to the Tea Party by Conservative Republicans, old "Reagan Democrat" voters ( a few are still alive) & the Independents this year & again it would have to be more of a shift than the Tea Party & Ron Paul anticipate.
2. The Tea Party folks & Independents infultrate the Republican Party & make sure that the most Conservative People/Constitutionalists are nominated & then elected. In the process the most Liberal ones would be beat out. This too is a rather tall order & I have doubts that we can pull it off in time.

The early part of 09 I joined the Constitution Party in AR. In most positions we will not have a person running & in those cases we research the choices & then back the person who adheres to the Constitution. For example we have the white trash Blanche Lincoln up for re-election in the US Senate. The Republican Party Leaders have decided that Bozeman is the man, but another Rep. running, MR. Holt has a 100% Con. record & is a strict Constitutionalist. We are backing him & doing all we can.

If a person does not follow the Constitution to the letter I will not vote for them, so this will make the next Pres. election interesting. Members of our party are handing out a little pamplet about our founding principles called "Back To Basics" & a small pamplet of the US Constitution. We give them out free to school kids & others & we pay for these out of our own pocket & offer to those who can afford it to donate $1.00  which will buy 2 pamplets, if they don't want to or can't afford it, we give them one anyway. At the local level it is making a difference & can anywhere. 

But the above 2 Avenues are the choices, but I would say the chances are not too good either way. However, if folks begin to pay attention & LEARN the Constitution & become God fearing again, we can get through this, if not nothing will work.

[Dee]

nomosendero, I agree fully. My entire family supportS the Tea Party movement, and attend any close enough to drive to, and we network with folks of like mind.
Your synopsis of the problem, being that most don't even know what the Constitution says, or does, for for the most part is correct. They don't Realize that the Constitution is want the government CAN'T DO, and the Bill of Rights is what they CAN DO, only AFTER DUE PROCESS OF LAW.
The Democratic and Republican Parties are DEPENDENT ON IGNORANCE of the two Documents, and DEPENDENT ON THE LACK OF LOYALTY to both Documents by the voter.
The American voter will TRADE OFF FREEDOMS, for the mere whisper of a promised concession in their security.
The American voter cries and complains about the loss of LIBERTY, but the American voter is the one giving it away, and all the while justifying it.
 Like you, I will not support ANY CANDIDATE, that is not 100% in favor of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. ANY COMPROMISE by that candidate and I will drop him like a bad habit.
I have some hope in Palin, but am watching.


ANYONE WHOM WILL TRADE LIBERTY FOR A LITTLE SECURITY, DESERVES NEITHER!      BENJAMIN FRANKLIN

[mjbgalt]

we just need to rigidly refuse to elect anyone who will not do as they are told. we need 100% constitutionalists and people who are willing to do the right thing, even when it doesn't fit into a soundbite.

we also need the religious among us to vote for the right candidate, not just the one who plays to their emotions and who goes to the right church. we need people to endorse candidates who ARE who we need, not who can ACT like they are.

sadly it remains that if we independents stop voting republican, the dems will win. and even though people deserve to see the error of their ways, it sends our country down to chute while they sit and watch the news.

hard decisions.

i have been Libertarian and will be until someone proves me wrong. however i cannot see where Ron Paul would be a bad choice as president. i do see where neither side would work with him and he would get nothing done.

[mjbgalt]

and it's way past D vs. R. this has to be an independent judging of each candidate, regardless of what it says by their name.

[alsaqr]

Good post, Dee. 

During the Monica impeachment shenanigan US Rep. Dan Burton (R) called Clinton a scumbag.  At the time old Danny Boy had his mistress on the payroll as a shadow employee.  Republican political hacks like Gingrich conveniently forget that 75 percent of the US debt was run up on the watches of Ronnie Baby, Bush I and Bush II. 

Gingrich is a joke. 

[Dee]

All good points, and I agree FULLY. The party system would have to be abandoned. I don't think it will happen because the American voter feels safe in large groups, even though the group is collectively in error.
The mention of Ron Paul. I agree that he is a true Patriot. His voting record proves it, but alas. He is not shiny enough for the average voter. They want volume in speech, flamboyancy, and promises that cannot be kept, is what gets their attention,  and where common sense, falls on their deaf ears.

[gwhilikerz]

All these posts ring true. If anyone doubts that the American voter is fickle and wishy-washy all you have to do is look at the new senator from Mass. He has not participated in one vote that I know of and already the media is mentioning him as presidential material. The dems and republicans are two sides of the same coin. They both will follow the party before they defend the Constitution. I don't see much of a future for us.

[yellowtail3]

I liked Ron Paul, and still do.

[Oldshooter]

I like Ron Paul as well, now all you folk that think he is the answer to your prayers go out and send him some cash and get off your dead weight and politic so he can at least win a danged primary. So far he has not ever done so and may not run again. .

Some of you guys will never see a candidate you like! He/She does not exist, cause you demand too much.  You want to find someone that will get national appeal, obama got it by lying his behind off. Now those voters are having buyers remorse and in a few years another charlatan will come along and the sheeple will follow.

 
Arm chair Quarterbacking is not gonna get nothing done! You died in the wool selfrightous voters, get out and pick your man NOW and help him win. I'll vote for him/her if they can win. and I'll know that a week before the election. Look back at the polls and see for yourself in the last few presidential elections, dont take my word for it.

I'm betting you wont do a darned thing but whine and complain then blame it on the lessor evil voters when your ten percent guy looses and obama is re-elected!

[jimster]

That was a good post Dee, and glad you decided to not keep so quiet on things concerning politics, because people need to hear the basics of how this country was formed in the first place, and why.  Need as many people to spread the word as we can, and the more people that walk the talk like
nomosendero and others, the better.  The country was formed by the few people who believed in the constitution and believed there was no going around any of it.  Most likely, it will be the few persistant people who would take the country back like in the begining. There was no majority in the beginning, most people thought the people that signed the first documents were radicals and wanted nothing to do with them. Until it appeared as if they were winning.
That's they way it most often is....a few good people, doing all the work for the rest.  All the people that will ride on the republican party thinking that is all we have, will be the first ones to jump on board if there is a hint of anything new that is winning.  That's the way it always was, and that's the way it always will be. 

And darn....my wife still thinks the republican party can be rebuilt....and I still have to tell her it never really existed....ha!   But look how long it took me to wake up, so I can't throw stones too much, I was suckered for a lot of years myself. 

[Dee]

Thanks jimster. Folks like Oldshooter that start throwing around words like "self righteous" should look in the mirror.
He just admitted that he'll keep givin our rights away, and he'll get on board if there's something to gain in the last few days before the elections, but he also stated that he would "cut and run" if it didn't look good.

Those folks aren't gonna ever take a stand. There gonna keep giving mine, and your rights away, because they don't have strong enough beliefs in what this country, was founded on. They claim they do, but they won't support an honest man, they'll support a flamboyant crook, out of fear of another candidate. They have lived easy, and think it will always be easy, because some one else will take care of it.

I would hate to see the day, that I voted because I was so afraid of another candidate, that I would vote for one that had betrayed me and my rights, time after time like they do.

Keep vote'em in Oldshooter, and keep givin our rights and freedoms away. I don't expect anything different.


ANYONE WHOM WILL TRADE "LIBERTY" FOR A LITTLE SECURITY, DESERVES NEITHER.    BENJAMIN FRANKLIN

AIN'T IT THE TRUTH?

[bearmgc]

If there ever was a time when both the Republicans and Democrats clearly have shown their hand, it has  been these past 2 years. Anyone who suspected it, could read it, see it , hear it. I support the Tea Party, and while it is not a third Party as yet, the Tea Party will be effective in teasing out the truth about candidates that support the Constitution.

[Oldshooter]

I support the Constitution and the Tea Parties, the problem i have with some of you purists is that while your are waving the flag in all your grand high ground the progressives are eating your country up. You do nothing but rant and complain, no body is as good or as interested in the union and the constitution as you are. No one willing to run for office is good enough, Reagan dragged you kicking and screaming into prosperity and when he left office you ridiculed him I'm sure.

NO the Republicans are not perfect, but you dont have a damned candidate, you never will cause you hold everyone to too high a standard. The guys you want in office wont run cause they know how you are, you'll sell em out and call em liars as soon as something dont go your way and i dont mean against the constitution.

Dee, you whine about selling out and losing with a winner but you just loose period! You love to spout out that I will cut and run, you're a fool if you believe that. But that is just what you are doing with your lose with a winner BS. All you do is criticize me because i wont buy into your poor attitude, Show some backbone and transform the party you think holds closest to your beliefs dont cut and run. and to where? You and your constituents put your candidate up and support him(whomever is fool enough to lead you) ......all four? of you!

[Swampman]

The total rejection of morality & Jesus Christ is the downfall of America.  Noone can save it.

[Dee]

Show some back bone and step out of the hog pen Oldshooter. I not whinin, I standin for what's right. I'm votin FOR the Constitution. Your votin against it by tradin it off a peice at a time. And your a fool if you think your not.
I picked a candidate and voted for him for president. I didn't jump from candidate to candidate like you. You COMPLAIN that you didn't particularly like McCain but, he was the best you could come up with. There were two on the ballot that were better than him or Obama. You just didn't have the guts to step up. You took the easy way out and have complained about what you ended up with ever since.

I voted Reagan, but there hasn't been a Republican worth a damn since. But that's ok. The Republicans have goT weak sisters like you to follow them around. You can keep votin'em in, and sendin your dues to the NRA so your candidates won't take your guns.
Why don't you show some backbone. Be a man. Support an honest man instead of a theif and a liar. Take a chance!
There will be a third PARTY candidate and maybe even a forth on the next presidential election, just like last time, but you'll just keep squeakin along behind the Republicans and hope for a crumb.
The progressives are eating our country up because you are votin'em into office time after time, after time.
Goodbye Oldshooter, I have funeral to go to.

TRADING FREEDOMS FOR A LITTLE SECURITY, IS A COWARDS WAY OUT!    AUTHOR UNKNOWN

                      AUTHOR UNK

[sagegrouse715]

Doom and gloom.  The American Revolution was won by optimism and possibility thinkers not by pessimism.  Pessimisitic thinkers aren't good capitalists.

[Swampman]

I'm voting for Republicans.

[nomosendero]

Is voting for anti-Capitalist polititans good Capitalism?
Stating reality is not doom & gloom. I still think there's hope as stated at the comclusion of my post, but not just staying the old course & that should be obvious by now. I'm about as "Capitalist" thinking as it comes & Practicing Capitalism did not get us in this shape, Gov. did, the founders realized that was their plight before acting & must have appeared quite negative to those who were willing to lick "Royal" boots to get along & get by.


Oldshooter, I figure you included me in your comments since few had posted at the time when you said
"some of you will never see a candidate you like" well, I did with Reagan, I liked him & I do like a candidate we have running to detrone B. Lincoln in AR, can't say if I will "Like" anyone who runs for Pres. since we don't know who they are, but if they are Constitutionalists there is a good chance I will.
You also said "He/She doesn't exist, because you demand too much." I went back & looked at my post & the only thing I demanded was that they follow the Constitution. So are you saying that is asking too much.
What is more importantant for them to follow?
This has been THE problem. With each term, a little more is whittled off, soon the block will be quite small. I am no longer willing to "settle" for that.

[bearmgc]

I support the Constitution and the Tea Parties, the problem i have with some of you purists is that while your are waving the flag in all your grand high ground the progressives are eating your country up. You do nothing but rant and complain, no body is as good or as interested in the union and the constitution as you are. No one willing to run for office is good enough, Reagan dragged you kicking and screaming into prosperity and when he left office you ridiculed him I'm sure.

NO the Republicans are not perfect, but you dont have a damned candidate, you never will cause you hold everyone to too high a standard. The guys you want in office wont run cause they know how you are, you'll sell em out and call em liars as soon as something dont go your way and i dont mean against the constitution.

Dee, you whine about selling out and losing with a winner but you just loose period! You love to spout out that I will cut and run, you're a fool if you believe that. But that is just what you are doing with your lose with a winner BS. All you do is criticize me because i wont buy into your poor attitude, Show some backbone and transform the party you think holds closest to your beliefs dont cut and run. and to where? You and your constituents put your candidate up and support him(whomever is fool enough to lead you) ......all four? of you!

I am not on high ground. I'm in a river bottom with really high ground all around me. I was in the military during the Reagan years, and truly loved him. We can take the hill come next election, if we're all on the same page. Just gotta decide what page that will be. This is a good place place to bounce ideas back n' forth.

[Oldshooter]

There will be a third PARTY candidate and maybe even a forth on the next presidential election, just like last time, but you'll just keep squeakin along behind the Republicans and hope for a crumb.
The progressives are eating our country up because you are votin'em into office time after time, after time.

You run as many third and fourth parties as you want DEE and it will insure 4 MORE years for obama, Guess what,  the left has a candidate and they are unified behind ONE party and ONE man. So they welcome you to put up as many as you want in fact they hope you do! Keep repeating that to yourself until you get it!  What you do keep repeating is nonsense, Wanting things to be ok wont make it so

I keep hearing that the parties are the same, that is nonsense. There is no room for radicals on either side, because they wont win. There is an awakening here in this country, we can thank obama and the left for that. but it is very important that we find a candidate that can garner NATIONAL Support, not 10 %. I didnt pick McCain to run the primaries did. Your boys came in last and didn't make it to the dance and what if they did, with 10 or 11 percent popular vote you win Zip,Nada, Zilch, nothing! You do win obama for 4 MORE years. Even if everyone on this site did what you want and voted for who you want, it dont amount to a hill of beans. You got bigger problems than me . I dont want 4 more years of obama. You keep insisting he get em! You and the people that want the world to change in a season are the problem. It didn't get this way in 8 years, and it ain't gonna get fixed in one because you want it to! Voting for some 10% shmuck just gets you Obama.  

Nomo, Now you know I dont want to ignore the constitution, and dont want anyone else to. But it seems that no one is good enough for some here.  Jesus couldn't get elected here! IF thats not plain enough then I cant help you.

Bearmgc, I hear you and feel the same way!

[nomosendero]

There will be a third PARTY candidate and maybe even a forth on the next presidential election, just like last time, but you'll just keep squeakin along behind the Republicans and hope for a crumb.
The progressives are eating our country up because you are votin'em into office time after time, after time.

You run as many third and fourth parties as you want DEE and it will insure 4 MORE years for obama, Guess what,  the left has a candidate and they are unified behind ONE party and ONE man. So they welcome you to put up as many as you want in fact they hope you do! Keep repeating that to yourself until you get it!  What you do keep repeating is nonsense, Wanting things to be ok wont make it so

I keep hearing that the parties are the same, that is nonsense. There is no room for radicals on either side, because they wont win. There is an awakening here in this country, we can thank obama and the left for that. but it is very important that we find a candidate that can garner NATIONAL Support, not 10 %. I didnt pick McCain to run the primaries did. Your boys came in last and didn't make it to the dance and what if they did, with 10 or 11 percent popular vote you win Zip,Nada, Zilch, nothing! You do win obama for 4 MORE years. Even if everyone on this site did what you want and voted for who you want, it dont amount to a hill of beans. You got bigger problems than me . I dont want 4 more years of obama. You keep insisting he get em! You and the people that want the world to change in a season are the problem. It didn't get this way in 8 years, and it ain't gonna get fixed in one because you want it to! Voting for some 10% shmuck just gets you Obama.  

Nomo, Now you know I dont want to ignore the constitution, and dont want anyone else to. But it seems that no one is good enough for some here.  Jesus couldn't get elected here! IF thats not plain enough then I cant help you.

Bearmgc, I hear you and feel the same way!

If you have a specific target person here say it, but I again only mentioned upholding the Constitution & again that is not too much to ask & if that's not plain enough I can't help it either.

[gypsyman]

Even thou I'm for voting everybody out in the next election, don't think it will do a bit of good. This country is like an alcoholic or drug addict. And, it hasn't hit bottom yet. When it does, there will be an awakening. gypsyman

[nw_hunter]

Even thou I'm for voting everybody out in the next election, don't think it will do a bit of good. This country is like an alcoholic or drug addict. And, it hasn't hit bottom yet. When it does, there will be an awakening. gypsyman

There you have it! That is what Dee is trying to tell some of the lesser people on the forum.
Who knows exactly what will happen after we hit bottom, and we will hit it!

If this country is to be saved from total destruction, I think it will come from state level.The Federal government is too corrupt to ever salvage.

We all would like to think we still live in the land of the free and the home of the brave..
Truth is we don't! It's not even close to the same country we knew in the 50's and early 60's.
These Democrat, and Republican criminals are the same people.Look at their records! They speak for themselves.We have in our possession, the greatest educational tool ever known to man. (The PC)
We don't have to listen to what the liars tell us. It's obvious, only a small percentage of us use it. The rest listen to Bill O., Rush L, Keith O., or Shallow Sean H. to pick a side to belong to.

We spend way to much time worrying about which criminal makes it to the Oval Orfice anyway!
If the House and Senate had some good Constitutionalists in it, the country wouldn't have to worry about the Monkey in Chief.

Not to worry! When the Social Security Checks bounce, the retirement checks become IOU's, and a good job is only in India, the rest will get the idea!

[Dances with Geoducks]

we just need to rigidly refuse to elect anyone who will not do as they are told. we need 100% constitutionalists and people who are willing to do the right thing

You got two problems, The bias media, and the one world government.
Being that America is now 90% sheeple, and 10% patriots, the deck is stacked.

Dont look to the two major parties, they are the same thing now. Center left, and far left.

When I saw the republican party break its own rules, and change the way the convention was run.
After the primaries, after the popular vote was counted, they changed the bylaws here to exclude Ron Paul from
the convention. When we went, we held 62% of the delegate seats.
When they passed the ballot around, it had one name on it. McCain. Two weeks before Paul had been disqualified.
They just didn't bother to tell anyone until the vote was taken.

Most of us walked out, and Im done with voting. Just gonna wait until the collapse comes

[BoomLover]

Dances...I agree with your point...52 years as a Democrat, 'cause my parents were, couldn't stand them any more, don't know how I lasted that long! Switched to Republican, didn't take long to see the error of that decision, and have been a Constitutionalist ever since. Ron Paul, if he got the solid backing, would be the one I would vote for any day...he walks the walk and talks the talk. That said, we all know the problem, it's the Sheeple. Both sides, drinkin' the party mumbo-jumbo, and ACCEPTING second best! That crap won't change, sorry to say, but like sagegrouse715 said, Optimism , not pessimistic attitudes are what we need! We have an opportunity to groom and promote the right person, but we got to get everyone who feels that way on board the same boat! Otherwise, we will continue to drift aimlessly around while being sucked further down the drain! I for one love this country and it tears one up to see the petty BS ripping it up! Wake up, get really organized, and get Obama out of office and down the road where he can't harm us anymore!

[billy_56081]

The reason an "independent" cannot do anything or save America is right there in the name. Laws are passed by a majority of votes it takes people working together to pass a Bill. The dems have banded together a whole bunch of filthy liberal scum into a voting block. Many of them have conflicting veiws but in a non independent voting block they can force their will upon the nation. Remember by being Mr. Superindependent you are being defeated by a block of queers, transvestites, feminists, abortionists, petards, socialists, illegal aliens, welfare recipients, and various other scum. These tiny freak fringe groups have banded together to become a real power to contend with.