Author Topic: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home  (Read 2820 times)

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Offline teamnelson

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Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« on: February 09, 2010, 11:32:03 AM »
Bring Our Marines Home
by Patrick J. Buchanan, February 02, 2010

A month after Germany surrendered in May 1945, America’s eyes turned to the Far East, where the bloodiest battle of the Pacific war was joined on the island of Okinawa.

Twelve thousand U.S. soldiers and Marines would die – twice as many dead in 82 days of fighting as have died in all the years of war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Within weeks of the battle’s end came Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Three weeks later, Gen. MacArthur took the Japanese surrender on the battleship Missouri.

That was 65 years ago, as far away in time from today as the Marines’ arrival at Da Nang was from Teddy Roosevelt’s charge up San Juan Hill.

Yet the Marines are still on Okinawa. But, in 2006, the United States negotiated a $26 billion deal to move 8,000 to Guam and the other Marines from the Futenma air base in the south to the more isolated town of Nago on the northern tip. Okinawans have long protested the crime, noise, and pollution at Futenma.

The problem arose last year when the Liberal Democratic Party that negotiated the deal was ousted and the Democratic Party of Japan elected on a promise to pursue a policy more balanced between Beijing and Washington.

The new prime minister, Yukio Hatoyama, indicated his unease with the Futenma deal, and promised to review it and decide by May. Voters in Nago just elected a mayor committed to keeping the new base out.

This weekend, thousands demonstrated in Tokyo against moving the Marine air station to Nago. Some demanded removal of all U.S. forces from Japan. After 65 years, they want us out. And Prime Minister Hatoyama has been feeding the sentiment. In January, he terminated Japan’s eight-year mission refueling U.S. ships aiding in the Afghan war effort.

All of which raises a question. If Tokyo does not want Marines on Okinawa, why stay? And if Japanese regard Marines as a public nuisance, rather than a protective force, why not remove the irritant and bring them home?

Indeed, why are we still defending Japan? She is no longer the ruined nation of 1945, but the second-largest economy on earth and among the most technologically advanced.

The Sino-Soviet bloc against which we defended her in the Cold War dissolved decades ago. The Soviet Union no longer exists. China is today a major trading partner of Japan. Russia and India have long borders with China, but neither needs U.S. troops to defend them.

Should a clash come between China and Japan over the disputed Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, why should that involve us?

Comes the retort: American troops are in Japan to defend South Korea and Taiwan. But South Korea has a population twice that of the North, an economy 40 times as large, access to the most advanced weapons in the U.S. arsenal, and a U.S. commitment to come to her defense by air and sea in any second Korean War.

And if there is a second Korean War, why should the 28,000 U.S. troops still in Korea, many on the DMZ, or Marines from Futenma have to fight and die? Is South Korea lacking for soldiers? Seoul, too, has been the site of anti-American demonstrations demanding we get out.

Why do we Americans seem more desperate to defend these countries than their people are to have us defend them? Is letting go of the world we grew up in so difficult?

Consider Taiwan. On his historic trip to Beijing in 1972, Richard Nixon agreed Taiwan was part of China. Jimmy Carter recognized Beijing as the sole legitimate government. Ronald Reagan committed us to cut back arms sales to Taiwan.

Yet, last week, we announced a $6.4 billion weapons sale to an island we agree is a province of China. Beijing, whose power is a product of the trade deficits we have run, is enraged that we are arming the lost province she is trying to bring back to the motherland.

Is it worth a clash with China to prevent Taiwan from assuming the same relationship to Beijing the British acceded to with Hong Kong? In tourism, trade, travel, and investment, Taiwan is herself deepening her relationship with the mainland. Is it not time for us to cut the cord?

With the exception of the Soviet Union, few nations in history have suffered such a relative decline in power and influence as the United States in the last decade. We are tied down in two wars, are universally disliked, and are running back-to-back deficits of 10 percent of gross domestic product, as our debt is surging to 100 percent of GDP.

A strategic retreat from Eurasia to our own continent and country is inevitable. Let it begin by graciously acceding to Japan’s request we remove our Marines from Okinawa and politely inquiring if they wish us to withdraw U.S. forces from the Home Islands, as well.

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Offline alsaqr

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2010, 01:32:21 AM »
I do not often agree with Pat Buchanan.  Buchanan is dead on the mark with this one.  The Japanese  routinely demonstrate against US troops and we need to bring those troops home.  Japan is a rich country capable of developing its own nukes and protecting itself.   

Taiwan is another matter and Buchanan is wrong on that one.  Nixon was also wrong on Taiwan.  But then Nixon was often wrong. 

Offline magooch

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2010, 02:45:57 AM »
I'd go one further than Pat.  I'd bring our troops home from everywhere, except a very few places.  What is so special about Taiwan?  If they want us there, then maybe they should cough up the funds to keep them there.

The message to the world should be that it is long past the time that we should be the world's baby-sitter and nanny.  We need to concentrate on muslim terrorism.
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Offline 351 power

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2010, 03:51:02 AM »
Would you really want the country responsible for Pearl Harbour to build up "nukes" alsaqr? I'm guessing there is more to that military presence than protecting Japan. What about German bases? Memories can be short. 50 years from now will there be a push to forget about the nation of islam?
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2010, 04:07:21 AM »
I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Buchanan on this one - no need for us to spend money to occupy Pacific locations leftover from WW2, when Japan has plenty of money to do it on their own. I don't think we're buying anything useful by our presence there, though I'll give an open listen to alternate views.
Would you really want the country responsible for Pearl Harbour to build up "nukes" alsaqr? I'm guessing there is more to that military presence than protecting Japan. What about German bases? Memories can be short. 50 years from now will there be a push to forget about the nation of islam?

sixty years is a while. The Japan of 2000 is a far, far different society than the Japan of 1930s; vastly different. Huge difference. They can take care of themselves just fine.

There is no 'nation of Islam' just as there's not 'nation of Christians' or 'nation of Buddhists'
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2010, 04:09:00 AM »
 well if we do what buchanan wants .. lets stop the cash flo to other countries altogather..
 put americans back to work.. then let the chips fall, let them fall where they may..
 isolationism..i never was for it before but think it needs careful consideration now..
we still have the capability of being the industrial giant..but we gotta start manufacturing things here again..jmo slim
 some country calls our debts ..we say well not today ..but let us get back on our feet ..then we ll talk..
 for instance with china.. whats the value of lost americans heroes,, incurred during the war with japan..
 you sure didn t mind letting our men die then ..huh
 lets just call us even ..you do what you wanta do.. don t worry about us.. we no longer any of your buisiness,nor your country ours..you outnumber us 10-1.. so you do your thing an so will we..
 the door to the bread basket,, just got shut.you ll find a bunch of bleeding heart liberals on rafts trying to get to your country..you can haveum..[a dream i know]

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2010, 04:16:25 AM »
....
 for instance with china.. whats the value of lost americans heroes,, incurred during the war with japan..
 you sure didn t mind letting our men die then ..huh

what do you mean, here?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2010, 04:21:22 AM »
confused ..not sure of your meaning.  :)slim
 the only place i see here is about our country manufactoring everything it uses..then doing without
anything we don t have..when i say here ..i mean the united states of america..slim
 theres fifty united countries that make that up..that does include alaska an hawayia..
 sorry ididnt spell the last state mentioned corretly.. no insult intended.l :)

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2010, 04:30:25 AM »
Well if ya'll bring home all the troops then how will the empire be built ?  ::)
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2010, 09:01:58 PM »
Empire?
I will concede that, with the ability to strike anwhere in the world, bases in foreign countries are almost not needed.
ALMOST--but not completely.
It is how we treat these bases and how we treat the host country.
If we treat them as us doing a favor, well, you know.
Troops, under the correct means and with proper laws, along a border would be a good thing. Do I sound like Iron Wall philosophy??
Now this is controversal---Does the presence of police in a neigborhood do any good, and I am talking about a substation, or does it present, too the mind, a bully threat?
As far a Pat Buchanna is concerned, he is a politician, desires the Presidency and can't admit to being too old to fill the shoes.
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Offline Squib

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2010, 09:30:51 PM »
it is rediculously expensive to house the troops and equipment overseas, and the money the personnel spend is overseas too.  why do it?  let the rest of the world just do as it will, our army shoud be on our land (and reduced too, we're supposed to be a militia nation), our navy shoud be in our waters and general vicinity, our airforce shoud be patrolling our skies, our marines should.... be picking up slack for the other guys.  :o

in a world full of conventional and nuclear missiles, I don't see the point in trying to defend strategic territory.  this nation can be blown up, hacked, nuked, or infected with some horrible disease JUST FINE whether our military is here, there,everywhere or nowhere.  what IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW is a quick slide to socialism so why worry about conventional warfare?  there isn't going to be much of a country to attack in a generation or two....

Offline 351 power

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2010, 12:29:56 AM »
isolationism is a fine idea. and would save lives and dollars. but a world economy dictates that just staying home will make you a poorer country. i truly don't have alot of details but i think not being visible on the world stage can make a difference economically and politically
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Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2010, 02:00:13 AM »
isolationism is a fine idea. and would save lives and dollars. but a world economy dictates that just staying home will make you a poorer country. i truly don't have alot of details but i think not being visible on the world stage can make a difference economically and politically


Lol! "Well" We haven't tried Isolationism, and have our noses stuck in every nook and cranny in the world.
Guess what? We are still becoming a third world country anyway!
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline magooch

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2010, 03:14:43 AM »
First off, isolationism is a non-starter.  It is not going to happen.  Bringing our troops home, or rather removing them from where they are not wanted is not isolationism.  Isolationism is the notion that we can be totally self sufficient and successful at the same time.  Trade is an enormous part of our economy and so is foreign tourism.  This isn't the 18th century.

What we need is for our government to promote business--both domestically and with regard to trade.  Obama is in large part responsible for the economy being as bad as it is.  He was the one saying it is the worst economy since the Great Depression.  He said it over and over to help get himself elected.  Well, it worked; he got elected and too many people bought into it and made it happen.  I believe that the talking heads--yes and even Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and others are not helping by continuing to remind us that the economy is doing badly.  But they didn't start it and it has worked to help turn the numbers against this disastrous incompetent fool we have for a leader.


Jobs will return when confidence returns and that has to start with people knowing what the rules are.  What taxes and regulations will we be facing?  Will there be real energy, or just some fantasy "green" bs?  And finally, we have to get the illegals out of here--period.
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2010, 03:26:18 AM »
NW HUNTER
Read your history. We have tried isolationism and it didn't work.
Isolationism sounds good when taken with drugs, beer but is a complete disaster when you want to be preemptive.
I would love a good lettin alone---this would reqiure a lot of pre-emptive behavior, just as it does at the house.
Blessings
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Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2010, 06:35:39 AM »
NW HUNTER
Read your history. We have tried isolationism and it didn't work.
Isolationism sounds good when taken with drugs, beer but is a complete disaster when you want to be preemptive.
I would love a good lettin alone---this would reqiure a lot of pre-emptive behavior, just as it does at the house.
Blessings


Care to bring me up on that part of history?
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2010, 06:40:03 AM »

What we need is for our government to promote business--both domestically and with regard to trade.  Obama is in large part responsible for the economy being as bad as it is.  He was the one saying it is the worst economy since the Great Depression. 

That IS the problems today! Government sticking it's nose into private business.
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2010, 06:45:24 AM »
We tried to be isolationist in WWI and WWII and it failed.  We were attacked and declared war on.  We tried in our early history, and the pirates off the North Africa coast (Muslims) were attacking our shipping going through the Mediterranian.  Jefferson had three warships built, (one was the USS Constitution, Old Ironsides) and we used them to stop the pirates at their strongholds using the navy and Marines.  That is where the shores of Tripoli comes from in their song.  Tripoli, Libya, where the pirates were.  After that we were left alone for the entire 1800's, except for the Mexican war in 1845 and of course the Indian wars and the Civil War.  We trade with everyone, therefore we must maintain a strong military.  Even if we made everything like we did in 1960, we still imported coffee, tea, bananas, cocoa, titianium, and bismith.    

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2010, 06:47:51 AM »
You are right about the private business.  It should be self regulated.  We should have let the bad banks fail.  Their assets divided up and sold to other solvent banks.  They should also have never become part owners of GM and Chrysler.  Now they want to take over health care. 

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2010, 07:45:15 AM »
Fascinating ... Obama is pushing us quickly towards an isolated economy, using government means to thwart competition, backing the UAW, and we don't like it. But on here folks are advocating that exact same model?

To become an isolated economy means we need to go back to a manufacturing based economy. To retool this nation back to manufacturing will required government mandated reemployment from a service based economy to a goods based economy. That means you will be forced to by US only products, regardless of quality. You will be forced to retrain from the job you may have now that your parents worked their whole life to save so you could go to college and get that better white collar/service based job and not the factory job they had. And inflation will soar because our withdrawal from the global economy will trigger our overseas customers to stop buying our products and resources. Local corporations will struggle to remain profitable because they can only sell their products to Americans, who no longer make the wages they used to, but everything costs more. Government will have to step in to keep it afloat, and our taxes will go up, which means even fewer $ to spend on those american made products. And you expect those products to be higher quality because of american pride? When already the UAW and others have proven that greed is the only motivator; as long as they get their cut off the top, they're happy. If not, they drive a business into the ground, which is okay because the union bosses are still getting paid, but the american workers are out of luck? Were y'all alive during the Cold War? Did you pay attention to the USSR? Is that where you want to live?
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Offline 351 power

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2010, 06:48:36 AM »
i don't think any country can be isolationist anymore because the multinational companies have too much power in govt policy. and a huge dependance on oil won't help either. but changing the national mentality to saving and buying local as much as possible are steps in the right direction. little to do with foreign policy though.
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2010, 07:06:44 AM »
... Outsourcing and insourcing are fatal to NATIONS....always has been and always will be. If you want a NATION then run the place like a NATION of like minded people....summarized in the Preamble of the Constitution.... 


..TM7
Therein lies the conundrum.   We are not a NATION of like minded people.   We are a melting pot of different cultures and unfortunately our government never took the steps to facilitate Like Mindedness.  In our PC world today no one in our Govt will ever have the cajones to step up and say so. 
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2010, 07:10:10 AM »
TM7, that's an interesting intellectual distinction, but not realistic given the way things are today. What's best for this NATION would mean the collapse of our ECONOMY in the short term and the likely deaths of some of the NATION's CITIZENS. What's best for this NATION is therefore not inherently best for its CITIZENS, at least the present ones. Perhaps in a few generations. They may be distinct concepts, but presently they are inseparable. There is in fact a cost to every great idea ... something very few ever seem to factor. So like all folks who aspire to lead, which CITIZENS are you willing to let die to re-establish our NATION? Public pressure won't let you make that decision, unless you plan on being a dictator. You cannot both have a Democracy, and separate NATION from ECONOMY.

351, As for supporting local, great, all for it ... but our manufacturing base is so very very low now that you literally do not have many US made or local options. Can't buy a car, put gas in it, have furniture, build a house, wear clothes, watch tv, or go to McDonalds without paying for foreign made goods. And when there are local alternatives they are often more expensive, so it often doesn't make sense to the 18 million out of work folks, and the tens of millions of underemployed to buy freerange organic food at the local coop, when they get 3000 calories at McD for $5. And it has everything to do with foreign policy ... China, India all those places need markets for their goods. You close those markets, or change the playing field (GM vs. Toyota/Honda) and you are talking foreign policy because those NATIONS are intrinsically bound to their ECONOMIES.
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2010, 07:11:49 AM »
God protect us from "like mindedness." When a Govt makes that its objective then we all lose. It was because the people at the time shared a similar idea that our government was successful, but to impose that now would be the opposite of good.
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2010, 07:21:23 AM »
Very good observations TN and well written. 
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline gwhilikerz

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2010, 07:28:27 AM »
In my perfect country our military would be on standby here in America and very few places overseas. There would be good border security, enhanced by military posts along the borders. (Good fences make good neighbors). The American worker would be able to find a job because we manufacture the things we need. The "service-based" economy would be flourishing because they are servicing manufacturing and workers. When an American company provides for the citizen's demands the surplus is offered for sale to other countries. If they need it they will buy it. If we NEED something that is just not available here we buy from them.
 If an American based company insists on making their product elsewhere they pay a tax or tarrif that would make it just as economical to produce it here. If they build overseas plants they sell overseas, no problem. Foreign based companies are welcome, even encouraged, to build facilities here. If they don't take advantage of that then their goods are taxed enough to raise the prices to those comparable to American products.
 Social Security would be phased out. Those already paying into that system would have the option of continuing. Those already of retirement age will continue to receive benefits ( they bought that insurance). New people coming into the workforce or starting their own income source would be required to put aside a portion of their income for retirement purposes. This "requirement" is necessary because we all know people will not always do what they need to for the future, then they would be right back in a retirement disaster. Social Security would be funded for the 50 or so years it would take to clear the rolls. Then only funded for disability.
 I could go on forever But i'm outta time.

Offline gstewart44

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2010, 07:45:46 AM »
In my perfect country our military would be on standby here in America and very few places overseas. There would be good border security, enhanced by military posts along the borders. (Good fences make good neighbors). The American worker would be able to find a job because we manufacture the things we need. The "service-based" economy would be flourishing because they are servicing manufacturing and workers. When an American company provides for the citizen's demands the surplus is offered for sale to other countries. If they need it they will buy it. If we NEED something that is just not available here we buy from them.
 If an American based company insists on making their product elsewhere they pay a tax or tarrif that would make it just as economical to produce it here. If they build overseas plants they sell overseas, no problem. Foreign based companies are welcome, even encouraged, to build facilities here. If they don't take advantage of that then their goods are taxed enough to raise the prices to those comparable to American products.
 Social Security would be phased out. Those already paying into that system would have the option of continuing. Those already of retirement age will continue to receive benefits ( they bought that insurance). New people coming into the workforce or starting their own income source would be required to put aside a portion of their income for retirement purposes. This "requirement" is necessary because we all know people will not always do what they need to for the future, then they would be right back in a retirement disaster. Social Security would be funded for the 50 or so years it would take to clear the rolls. Then only funded for disability.
 I could go on forever But i'm outta time.
Would you sanction a single official language for government use, education and business?
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2010, 07:49:42 AM »
In America - YEP !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline gwhilikerz

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2010, 08:31:02 AM »
In my perfect country our military would be on standby here in America and very few places overseas. There would be good border security, enhanced by military posts along the borders. (Good fences make good neighbors). The American worker would be able to find a job because we manufacture the things we need. The "service-based" economy would be flourishing because they are servicing manufacturing and workers. When an American company provides for the citizen's demands the surplus is offered for sale to other countries. If they need it they will buy it. If we NEED something that is just not available here we buy from them.
 If an American based company insists on making their product elsewhere they pay a tax or tarrif that would make it just as economical to produce it here. If they build overseas plants they sell overseas, no problem. Foreign based companies are welcome, even encouraged, to build facilities here. If they don't take advantage of that then their goods are taxed enough to raise the prices to those comparable to American products.
 Social Security would be phased out. Those already paying into that system would have the option of continuing. Those already of retirement age will continue to receive benefits ( they bought that insurance). New people coming into the workforce or starting their own income source would be required to put aside a portion of their income for retirement purposes. This "requirement" is necessary because we all know people will not always do what they need to for the future, then they would be right back in a retirement disaster. Social Security would be funded for the 50 or so years it would take to clear the rolls. Then only funded for disability.
 I could go on forever But i'm outta time.
Would you sanction a single official language for government use, education and business?
Absolutely

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2010, 12:15:03 PM »
HUMMMMMMM1
Well now, let's see.
A nation/national government is responsible for infastructure, period.
A nation/this particular nation is a Republic and as individuals is responsible for economy.
It produces the economy and each segment augments this economy wheather it be the corner gas and gulp or Kroegers. It keeps money in the air and if it is in the air every body has a shot at a handfull.
If it settles into the hands of a few then this is no longer a Republic and it quickly becomes have or have not and stagnant.
The Civil war was, IMO, all about this Republic thing while some wanted individual country states--just won't work--this wanting control thought--in a Republic.
Now we have groups who think they know something and think they can form a society that is resourceful and socialistic.
The two cannot exist in the same time in space--IMO.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD