Pat Buchanan says Bring Our Marines Home

[gstewart44]

God protect us from "like mindedness." When a Govt makes that its objective then we all lose. It was because the people at the time shared a similar idea that our government was successful, but to impose that now would be the opposite of good.

.
No!! It would be the re-birth of the NATION and saving the people. Turning the nation into a composite mongrel is the main ploy of the NWO and exactly how you destroy nations and a people, which is what they do best; either surpitiously or by direct military action by surrogates. Would you rather sit in a room with 12 lions; or in a room with 2 zebras, 2 monkeys, 2 dogs, 2 peacocks, 2 pigs, and 2 deer.? Extreme polemics tries to convince people that you can't have a Nation and engage the world in trade.  This is the Big Lie of the neoconic NWO and their worshippers.  This is the front of the real war. And this is why they dilute this culture and fragment unity of thought by all tricks of left-right, liberal-conservative, capitalism-socialism, mussie-christian, and all other silly Jedi dichotomy mind tricks.  This is the real front of the war.

..TM7
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I would challenge your assertion that achieving complete like mindedness would be saving the people.   Certainly a new nation would be born, but at what cost?   In order to take the United States of America to your "Like Mindedness" you would necessarily have to "change" the minds of the diverse population groups, or eliminate them.    Concentration camps, political re-education facilities and Like mindedness has been tried by Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, and countless others have tried to achieve "Like Mindedness" and all have ultimately failed after years of genocidal purges.  
  
I believe that a Nation becomes great not by forcing a unilateral way of thinking controlled by the government, but rather allowing the great diversity of thoughts to be heard and the best rise to the top.   Are there rules and laws to be followed?  Certainly - lest we live in a state of anarchy and survival of the fittest.  

Since you have seen fit to compare our immigrant makeup of this nation to a genetic makeup of a non purebred canine I will continue with your metaphor.    In the world of genetics and especially dogs there is a reality known as "Hybrid vigor".   As a learned man I am sure you know about it.   The canines that are cross bred with different genes will outlive most of their purebred cousins with far fewer problems.    The "mongrel" USA certainly showed the "pure and like minded" Aryan nation of the Third Reich that our diversity was a great part of our strength.  

The European immigrants of the 19th century brought numbers and strength of mind to the USA.    But as they kept their cultural identity they also immersed themselves and families with the English language and sense of business.   This is what enabled the Italian, German, Irish and other groups to become such a driving force in the growth of our nation.

  If our "culture" has been diluted it is because of liberal left leaning politicians have forced it upon us.   12 lions alone in a room will soon starve.     A menagerie of animals will find an order that will balance itself.   Jedi mind tricks exist only on celluloid at the theatres and polycarbonate discs for our entertainment.

[Cabin4]

Since when does not having troops deployed in foreign lands mean we are defined isolationists??

[williamlayton]

Seems like "economy" is the first reason for a job--least it was for me. and the good job was second and it brought me in contact with like minded people who thought that this occupation was, by their definition, a good job.
Rules of order--food and shelter (see-economy).
From the meger beginnings comes nations of all types--monarchies, dictatorships & Republics.
Blessings 

[slim rem 7]

william you ever thought about writing a book..lets see.. mabe the title would be..
 common sense gained from years of living experience.. what you think brother.. slim
 next thing you know you be running for office..or.. running from office as i would.

[Cabin4]

The Civil war was, IMO, all about this Republic thing while some wanted individual country states--just won't work--this wanting control thought--in a Republic.

Our constitution is all about defining the power and or limiting the power of the federal government. The states are suppose to have the powers not afforded to the federal government. The reason why we have the mess on our hands today is because our federal government has usurped these principals in constitution.  The only thing not working, is what we have. Any state has a right to leave this union should it so choose. They joined the union at free will and they can leave under the same principal.

[jimster]

I am going to have to agree with you there C4. If a state thinks it will lose it's liberty per the constitution, it should leave, even if it has to fight it's way out.  The 10th does not seem to mean much these days, plus some others, if we all have a right to liberty, I guess maybe an entire state may need to do what it has to do to protect itself from a "limited" federal government....should the federal government decide to not be so limited and stray from the orginal intent.  There may not be any other way to preserve liberty for the people.  Liberty starts with econimcs. If they take to much of your money you have already lost your liberty, that alone is worth fighting for...or at least it once was.

[southernutah]

I don't know about any of you but I'm real tired of buying products made by the same countries that we just were at war with. Some of the gun accessory companies that outsource to China, Korea, and Vietnam are being removed from my buying list. The prices are still going up on these products and jobs are being lost here. Check the tags next time you buy and get a surprise.

You see more and more well educated people taking the jobs where just a few years ago were totally illegal immigrants. Government employee salaries exceed most of those of the public sector and someday the private sector won't be able to pay the taxes to sustain the high priced government.

[gstewart44]

I don't know about any of you but I'm real tired of buying products made by the same countries that we just were at war with. Some of the gun accessory companies that outsource to China, Korea, and Vietnam are being removed from my buying list. The prices are still going up on these products and jobs are being lost here. Check the tags next time you buy and get a surprise.

You see more and more well educated people taking the jobs where just a few years ago were totally illegal immigrants. Government employee salaries exceed most of those of the public sector and someday the private sector won't be able to pay the taxes to sustain the high priced government.

We were at war with China and South Korea?

[teamnelson]

TM7, how do we achieve nationhood from here?

[williamlayton]

Where does infastructure intrude on states rights?
In a Republic the individual is responsible for his rights as defined by law--either local,state, or national.
What is not acceptable is the assuming of power by any government, wheather it be local, state or national while maintaing a cohesive bonding of all individuals in favor of  the Republic.
Sure, giving up some rights in favor of the Republic such as the right of a state to make a treaty with a foreign nation or individual trade negotiations that would favor the state over the Republic.
The old saying is "we are in this thing together".
The smaller the unit the more individual freedoms--they are more easily to be controlled but, the weaker the Republic.
Wood bound together by chords--all with common desire.
This absolute freedom thing is the purple haze of anarchy and easy pickings for a Republic.
Blessings

[rio grande]

In my perfect country our military would be on standby here in America and very few places overseas. There would be good border security, enhanced by military posts along the borders. (Good fences make good neighbors). The American worker would be able to find a job because we manufacture the things we need. The "service-based" economy would be flourishing because they are servicing manufacturing and workers. When an American company provides for the citizen's demands the surplus is offered for sale to other countries. If they need it they will buy it. If we NEED something that is just not available here we buy from them.
 If an American based company insists on making their product elsewhere they pay a tax or tarrif that would make it just as economical to produce it here. If they build overseas plants they sell overseas, no problem. Foreign based companies are welcome, even encouraged, to build facilities here. If they don't take advantage of that then their goods are taxed enough to raise the prices to those comparable to American products.
 Social Security would be phased out. Those already paying into that system would have the option of continuing. Those already of retirement age will continue to receive benefits ( they bought that insurance). New people coming into the workforce or starting their own income source would be required to put aside a portion of their income for retirement purposes. This "requirement" is necessary because we all know people will not always do what they need to for the future, then they would be right back in a retirement disaster. Social Security would be funded for the 50 or so years it would take to clear the rolls. Then only funded for disability.
 I could go on forever But i'm outta time.

gwhilikerz for President.
IF we really were concerned about the Chinese threat, we wouldn't worry as much about selling arms to Taiwan as we would be concerned about building up our infrastructure, farming and manufacturing.  We'd be looking at self-sufficiency, paying down the national debt, and living within our means.  We'd stop tossing our $ and our lives down the rat-holes of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.
And we'd stop the massive and destructive illegal immigration and ruinous out-sourcing of jobs.
In my opinion, the people pulling the strings in this used-to-be 'Republic' couldn't care less what eventually happens to it, as long as they stay in power and make their fortunes.  In other words, they are traitors.
And yes, Pat Buchanan is right.  It would be a very good start to bring our troops home, give most of them real and productive jobs, keeping the rest at readiness and  protecting our borders.

[Cabin4]

TM7, how do we achieve nationhood from here?

.

You have traveled alot....what is your impression of how other NATIONS operate..?


..TM7

Most are worse off than we are but we are following close behind in their foot steps and making the same bad mistakes. The Liberals want us to move to an EU style of governing/politics. The ultimate goal is to join the EU countries with the US & Canada for some new western union on a single currency. Ultimately, the move is towards one single world government. The process of "crisis" either natural or manmade support this process and general direction. One step at a time the architects of one world government are plotting their tactical moves based on an over arching strategy of deceit & lies.

[beerbelly]

If a state thinks it will lose it's liberty per the constitution, it should leave, even if it has to fight it's way out. 

We tried that , didn't wprk out to well! So I guess that pretty well makes a lie of the BS that we are a nation of laws not men!
                   Beerbelly

[Cabin4]

If a state thinks it will lose it's liberty per the constitution, it should leave, even if it has to fight it's way out. 

We tried that , didn't wprk out to well! So I guess that pretty well makes a lie of the BS that we are a nation of laws not men!
                   Beerbelly

We elect criminals to run our country. Lincoln being the worst of them so far.....

[teamnelson]

C4, if we relent to Japan and Chinas wishes to withdraw from the pacific it will be because the Isolationists in our country have gained influence politically. The pacific is a complex issue, and how we deal with it sends signals to the world about how we view ourselves and our role in the world.

[beerbelly]

Hell ,do we have a roll in the world any more? Other than begging for loans, because we are broke?
                                 Beerbelly

[Squib]

doing the UN's dirty work.... and helping the chinese become the new UN powerbase

oh, and developing green stuff since no other nation wants to cripple it's economy to do so....

[teamnelson]

If you think we have no role then the nwo has succeeded.

TM7, we were supposed to be a republic of cooperating "nations," not a singularity (Borg). And even those were to be comprised of multiple communities of disparate ideals but with enough similarity of idea to cooperate. When I hear 330 million like minded people, I think Gestapo enforced, pogroms, reeducation camps.

[Cabin4]

TN,
I'm not suggesting we relent to anyone. The only thing this country has relented to are anti US principals. How many trillions do we owe China?? How much does Japan pay us for having 47,000 troops and associated materials in Japan??

[teamnelson]

C4, are you saying we should only have troops in the pacific if it generates revenue? What if their presence ensures continued revenue that would otherwise cease? What if there are other nonmonetary benefits to preserving our commitments to smaller countries that might cease to exist?

[Cabin4]

C4, are you saying we should only have troops in the pacific if it generates revenue? What if their presence ensures continued revenue that would otherwise cease? What if there are other nonmonetary benefits to preserving our commitments to smaller countries that might cease to exist?

I was being somewhat sarcastic about Japan paying us. I think we should pull our troops out of Japan and we should stop borrowing money from China. We have no business doing either.

[teamnelson]

You neglected my comment about republic above. I've not been to a happy country yet ... been to happy towns, tribes, islands ... but they're like minded as a product of their size. Somalia stinks; somaliland in the north (not recognized by the US) is great. All the European educated moved back there and are trying an experiment, free markets, religious pluralism, innovation mixed with traditional Somali culture. Iraq is a mess, but Kurdistan is getting it's feet under.

What you've not answered is how to achieve like mindedness. In those two previos examples I give it required gathering in a single smaller geographic area and kicking out or killing nonconformists. There are still high levels of dissent but enough cooperation to make it go. Again, I think we cannot achieve nationhood for the union. And I think the founders knew that which is why we have states. Constitution prescribed very small and limited government so the nations/states could operate with relative freedom.

Today those states have been diluted and neutered to the point that the only sense of nationhood they have is in athletics, or euphemistically. National thinking comes after shared culture and you cannot force that on anyone. Alaska might get it; Hawaii is it's own nation and it chose socialism, as did alot of states.

Heck, our military is incredibly fragmented and lacks the healthy like mindedness we had in times past when our shared values didn't have to be taught monthly. It was enough for me to know Marines don't do that. Today we can't say that and expect it to be enough.

TM7, if you'll allow this pastor ... it's not like mindedness you want, it's like hearted ness.

[williamlayton]

Seems I have heard this poor but happy used in the US of A.
People in Japan suffer a lot of stress in the workplace from my reads.
Seems those who live under dictaors are always poor but happy according to the leadership.
Blessings

[teamnelson]

I think its the Netherlands (maybe?) that are considered the happiest if I remember the TV show I saw. Seems they actually like spending time as families, never work more than 35-40 hours a week, value craftsmanship over materialism, ride bikes or walk everywhere. They're not obese, materialistic, or have an incessant need for MORE, whatever that is - its part of their national culture. I may have my countries mixed up, but I want to say its one of the furthest north european nations that you seldom read about in the news. One or two of our states could make that go, but not the whole US.

[Cabin4]

I have been to the Netherlands more times than I can remember over the past 25 or so years for business. It was the EMEA HQ for a company a worked at for 24 years and while I was with Apple, we had a number of operational facilities there. While it is a nice country, it is a welfare state. As a Dutch native, you are golden with your employer. You can be laid off, but it’s so financially painful for the employer, it almost never happens. If you set up shop in the Netherlands, as a company you are committed to the business and the employees for quite a long time. If I'm not mistaken, if you are laid off, your employer must pay you for at least 3 years. Drugs and prostitution are allowed in what’s known as the Red Light district. It’s a filthy dirty disgusting drug infested area. Employees in the office environment have what’s known as Work Counsels. It’s a similar concept as a Union here but for office workers including low level management. The Dutch dislike Americans as a rule. You are treated with disrespect and rudeness by everyone that can get away with treating you poorly. They live in very small houses mostly row homes. As an example, I have a former co-worker who has a wife and 2 small kids. They live in a 2 bedroom row home of about 900 sq feet. This is normal and I don’t think they were very happy in it. I find the Dutch to be stubborn, argumentive and downright combative especially with their American counter parts.

[rio grande]

Seems I have heard this poor but happy used in the US of A.
People in Japan suffer a lot of stress in the workplace from my reads.
Seems those who live under dictaors are always poor but happy according to the leadership.
Blessings

We've got the Dictator, and we're poor or getting there. Where's the happy?

[alsaqr]

We've got the Dictator, and we're poor or getting there. Where's the happy?

+1 
We are getting there quicker than most Americans think.  For years the Republicans accused the Democrats of being "tax and spend" advocates.   Then the Republicans ran the country and they did something much worse than "tax and spend."  The Republicans came out with their percolator theory of economics:  They spent like drunken sailors in a red light district when the money was not there.  Their resident hero Ronald Reagan tripled the national debt.  Yep, the percolator theory worked; the national debt perked down to the point where every Americans share of that debt is about $60,000.  George W. Bush and the Republicans doubled the national debt in eight years.  Republicans still have the guts to talk about tax cuts as the federal budget runs at a rate of 1.5 trillion per year. 

Then the Democrats quickly picked up on the Republican plan to totally bankrupt the country.  By 2020 the national debt will be 25-30 trillion dollars and that is not sustainable.  This country is being quickly reduced to the status of Somalia. 

[williamlayton]

Dependsn how you view spending.
Republicans spend money on defense.
Democrats spend "more" money on social prjects.
One is infastructure and one is socialism.
Blessings

[magooch]

I'm not sure that I would call defending the country as infrastructure, but I would say that without that spending (defense), nothing else matters.

Yeah, George Bush probably could have vetoed much of the spending that was done during his administration, but he did keep us from being attacked again and that is worth every penny--in my book.

Trying to equate our last administration with what we have now is so ridiculous that it isn't even worth arguing about.  Just remember who was running Congress in the last two years of Bush's term.  The President can't spend much without the approval of Congress, so let's at least put part of the blame where it belongs.

[teamnelson]

Congress spends $, the President can only voice support for legislation.

Back to the thread, we were already moving out of Japan partially on their dime. Now they don't want to pay, and many here support our move. Where do we get the $ for that again? Where do we put all the assets moved? Which district gets the jobs to build another base? You see where I'm going?

The decision to withdraw costs a lot of $ ... we don't have.