Will a new health care bill be crafted afresh?

[Questor]

Will the failed health care bills be scrapped and replaces with more practical and beneficial bills? The potential is there, but I rather doubt it. I still don't believe that members of congress generally understand what the issues are.

[magooch]

The word "cobble" comes to my mind.  Whatever comes out of Congress will   have nothing to do with "craft."  I would task them with revising their own health-care benefit with the knowledge that whatever they come up with would be applied to all of us.  That ought to finish us off good and proper.

[beerbelly]

No ,Obama will drag out the bill they have had all along, at the so call summit the dumb assed republicans are going to go to. Then when they say no to it , the msm will paint them as the party of no!
   It is a trick to try to save some democratic seats in November.
                        Beerbelly

[SHOOTALL]

Obama said Americans were fed up with the process , seems to me the process is what saved Americans . Why can't Obama and the dumb-a-crats and others see Americans are fed up with BIG GOVT.

[dukkillr]

Ive said it before but no one has risen to the challenge:

If you want to keep the government from taking over healthcare someone must come up with an answer to the real problems we face in the American healthcare system.  If republicans, moderates, and thinking people don't take advantage of an opportunity eventually we will all lose.

[SHOOTALL]

Like putting restraints on the Lawyers , AMA and FDA ?

[dukkillr]

Tort reform is a great part of the answer, but just a part.

[gwhilikerz]

Obama said Americans were fed up with the process , seems to me the process is what saved Americans . Why can't Obama and the dumb-a-crats and others see Americans are fed up with BIG GOVT.

Because progressives like Obama (and Bush) think they know what is best for you and what you think is not important.

[gwhilikerz]

All I see them doing with their proposed health care plan is chopping it up in smaller pieces and force feeding us a little at a time.

[SHOOTALL]

Well lets vote um out !

[gwhilikerz]

SHOOTALL that is what I have been saying for a long time. Vote them out, then vote out those that replace them, install term limits.

[mcwoodduck]

Will the failed health care bills be scrapped and replaces with more practical and beneficial bills? The potential is there, but I rather doubt it. I still don't believe that members of congress generally understand what the issues are.

NO the offer to make a Bi partisan bill was two fold.
1 to get some of the republicans on board to this bill
2 NO BHO wants to show the Republicans as being a problem and it has been turned around.

What still has me is how can they write a bill to lower health care costs with out looking at the costs?
How can a single payer system (MONOPLOY) be more competitive than many people trying to provide goods and services to lower costs?
If the Government has bakrupted Madicare, Social Security, and home prices due to lending laws what makes you think they will be able to provide you with health care.
We need to listen to what the bill says as well as what BHO says.  He said this bill will not end private health care over night but will phase it out over ten years.  (4 years of that you and your company will be taxed with out services)
Why can congress write a different plan for them selves.  Doesn't the 14th amendment and the Supreme Court desicion "brown V Board of Ed"  that stated if you have seperate it can not be equal.

[SHOOTALL]

mcwoodduck , there you go clouding the issue with facts .

[mcwoodduck]

Sorry had the same arguements with a friend not too long ago over the health care fiasco (bill) and what really had me going was he was a part business owner.  Evidently really junior where they do not show him the ballance sheet so he has no idea of what health care costs his company, how much they pay in taxes and he did not know his profit was taxed twice.  Once as corperate income and again as his income.  and was dumbfounded that the last $100 of profit for his company was 30.25 in his pocket after the state and fed got finished with it. 45% for state and fed on the company and 45% state and fed on his share what was left.
At what point is too much taxes?  And now they want to add more to pay for this all consuming bill?  And what most people do not understand is that you and I will be paying that tax in the cost of the products and if cutbacks need to be made they will be made in personell.
I also had to explain to my friend that at some point his company will fire owners.  He said fine but they will have to buy me out.
I asked him what is 10% of nothing?  if the company is that bad off that (named his two majority owners) have to fire the jr. guys what do you think the company will be worth?
It amazes me sometimes.  I had to have a huge fight with my step mother as she votes Dem because her father was one.  When I discussed some of the national Dem platform with her and asked if those sounded like things her father would have supported she finally saw the light.  I explained that JFK would be called a right wing wacko by the press today.

[SHOOTALL]

I'm part owner of a business , To be honest the health care plan would short term help us money wise . OK take a deep breath and read . We bid aginst companies that do not furnish health care we do . It would level the playing field . We also spend more than 8000 a year .
Don't worry i /we realize it would be the worst bill in our lifetime but it does point out some of the short commings of what we have .

[Heavy C]

I wish they would quit wasting time with this garbage.  American's aren't buying the bill and they aren't buying B.O.'s argument that Republicans are the party of 'no'.  It is infuriating to think B.O. believes we are too stupid to see that the Dem's couldn't pass that pig of a bill with overwhelming majorities in both houses. 

They will try and get it done through reconcilliation.  If it goes through; then you'll see America really come to life and raise some hell.  I can see it now.  People marching on Washington with pitch forks, tar, and feathers in hand.

[Squib]

while the taxation in general is rediculous, before now it's been on property and services, this "healthcare" issue will tax our BEING.  that is truly insane.  making people PAY every year for "care" that isn't asked for or even needed, pay for it if not even used. 

[dukkillr]

while the taxation in general is rediculous, before now it's been on property and services, this "healthcare" issue will tax our BEING.  that is truly insane.  making people PAY every year for "care" that isn't asked for or even needed, pay for it if not even used. 

*sigh*
All americans who have healthcare are ALL READY taxed on healthcare.  All americans who pay taxes are ALL READY taxed on healthcare.  How do people not get this?  When an indigent diabetic with no insurance shows up at the ER with a blue leg who ends up paying the bill?  That's right, taxpayers and those with insurance.  The question is, if the diabetic could be addressed before his leg turned blue would it be cheaper for us all.  For god's sake people, THINK.

If nothing happens to healthcare now, it will.  It is a real problem, the question is, what to do?

[gwhilikerz]

Sen Judd Gregg of N.H. just came out with his version of a health care bill. He was on Fox this morning and it sounded a lot like the Obama plan. Is this the first of the republican wave to jump ship?

[Squib]

it's simple, turn them away!  it's not an entitlement, if they accept treatment, they accept the debt too.  if they won't pay willingly, garnish their wages (or stop giving them welfare) and deny any future medical treatment until paid up.


the issue isn't who has to pay for it, but why not refuse the services in the first place?

[nomosendero]

Tort reform is a great part of the answer, but just a part.

Yes, it's a great part of the answer. Allowing Americans in any State to buy across State lines & thereby bring Health Insurance rates into Competitive alignment is another big part.

Stopping Gov abuses is yet another. My older brother retired from the Edu. system, now hauls folks around
getting Gov. paid (from us) Healthcare. Most people have no clue what we are allready providing in the way of Gov care, & I don't mean just truelly disabled that need help, but 40 year old meth heads & just folks feeding off the system. This agency funded by us picks them up, takes them to the Doc, brings them back, all at their beckoned call. Of course they have housing, food, the works & can't afford to work anyway.

If we stop the abuses, allow the free trade of Ins. & Tort reform, do it all, we can turn things around, but it wii not be next week ,but we can do it. We can't just have a new plan on the table which will be a cure, therefore it is not something that one perso can just do. It's a long term solution, it took years to get into this mess & just as it takes a person a while to get 100 pounds overweight & takes a while to lose it, it can be done.

[mcwoodduck]

Tort reform is a great part of the answer, but just a part.

Yes, it's a great part of the answer. Allowing Americans in any State to buy across State lines & thereby bring Health Insurance rates into Competitive alignment is another big part.

Stopping Gov abuses is yet another. My older brother retired from the Edu. system, now hauls folks around
getting Gov. paid (from us) Healthcare. Most people have no clue what we are allready providing in the way of Gov care, & I don't mean just truelly disabled that need help, but 40 year old meth heads & just folks feeding off the system. This agency funded by us picks them up, takes them to the Doc, brings them back, all at their beckoned call. Of course they have housing, food, the works & can't afford to work anyway.

If we stop the abuses, allow the free trade of Ins. & Tort reform, do it all, we can turn things around, but it wii not be next week ,but we can do it. We can't just have a new plan on the table which will be a cure, therefore it is not something that one perso can just do. It's a long term solution, it took years to get into this mess & just as it takes a person a while to get 100 pounds overweight & takes a while to lose it, it can be done.

See you are looking at what raises the costs of health insurance and that is where we should start.  If you look at the senate / presidents bill there is nothing that looks at the costs but more that adds to them.
As I have asked in the past Obama, Pelosi, and Reid my love this country but tell me what they would do different if they wanted to destroy it?

[billy_56081]

Tort reform needs to be done before any move on Health care is made. After we get the parastic lawyer scum out of health care then we need to asses what to do. The parasitic lawyer scum has its tentacles so intwined into it, that without their interference we will e able to see the true problems.

[mcwoodduck]

When a doctors larges expense is Mal Practice insurance.  Your right.
2nd is Labor (they now need to hire 3 people to handle all the paper work)
3 rd is Taxes.
4 is the building
5th is equipment

If you can cut down the first three and change employees from profit eaters to profit makers (adding nurses and Jr. Doctors) your cost go down and your rates than can go down.

Let's move this from Doctor to Trucker.
If the truck insurance cost you $480 a day or $40 / hour based on a 12 hour day.
and you have a fuel cost of of burning 5 gallons an hour @$4 a gallon
not to mention the loan on the truck at $50 an hour and the loan on your driving school the cost of your license and all the fees associated with it you need to charge a minimum of $110/ hour  of drive time just to break even.  Then add some $ for you, and then figure the government is going to take about half and your price per hour starts to go way up.  Add a person to drive the wide load truck and now you can see why health care costs so much.

[nomosendero]

The amt. of Insurance paid by Doctors varies by State, but here in AR or in MO for example the amt. that Doctors pay is much, MUCH more than the average business. In Nebraska for example the difference is not that great. Yes, Tort Reform will help alot.

[Questor]

That's mostly nonsense. Machines are very simple compared to people, and although people can design machines we know very little about the body and the mind. Much of being a doctor is realizing how little control we have over nature.

As for the notion that medicine doesn't have strict controls, that's preposterous. There is so much activity in medicine related to the prevention of law suits that, if anything, the medical profession is guilty of being overly cautious.

[mcwoodduck]

The amt. of Insurance paid by Doctors varies by State, but here in AR or in MO for example the amt. that Doctors pay is much, MUCH more than the average business. In Nebraska for example the difference is not that great. Yes, Tort Reform will help alot.

What I was trying to point out is these Pinko Commie Bed Wetters are not looking at the costs.  they are looking at what they want and that is to have central planning economy.  And this health care bill is one of the moves to do that.

[mcwoodduck]

That's mostly nonsense. Machines are very simple compared to people, and although people can design machines we know very little about the body and the mind. Much of being a doctor is realizing how little control we have over nature.

As for the notion that medicine doesn't have strict controls, that's preposterous. There is so much activity in medicine related to the prevention of law suits that, if anything, the medical profession is guilty of being overly cautious.

.
Yes and No, but alot of myth once again. And some might argue that airliner and systems are indeed more complicated than medical science. Medicine is not some black arts hoodo magic show. It is science. It is quite readily known how to stop a human body from working...and making mistakes like not getting somebody's complete med records before assigning treatments; mis, mal or over medicating, inept unnecessary or botched surgeries, failure to practice basic sanitary codes, not indicating other treatment possibilites, and a huge list of other possible screwups.

If you think malpractice is costing you alot, I suggest following the research which indicates a] dwindling legal awards since 2000, b] the malpractice cost only being of HC anywhere from 0.58% to a max of 8% of your total HC bill, c] 54% of malpractice cases involve the same core 1 out of 20 doctors over and over.

If you like your medical care without quality control assurances or viable recourses ... than go for it. But the tort reform is a smoke screen in the HC reform stage, and a false premise only to save HC insurance payouts in the future; and afterall between the Gang of Six who is writing this HC reform bill..? Yep, HC insurance companies...so much for central planning alright!


..TM7

But your data does not show the amounts that the insurance companies have just settled out of court in fear of the huge awards and those settlements are what raises the insurance premiums.  The company i worked for had a legal staff and they settled everything.  The had to go to court a few time and have won most but if you have a problem with your boiler, pool heater, or water heater then just keep saying you are going to sue and my old company will bend over backwards to Not go to court.  These settlements are what raised the cost of our heaters one year.  not the cost of copper, steel, manpower, or energy but legal fees to settle out of court on gas company problems. 

[dukkillr]

Actually the largest cost of the malpractice system is defensive medicine but it's very difficult to quantify because there is no accurate set of basic measurements.  For instance, if your kid falls off his bike and splits his head open you take him to the ER to get stitched up.  But once there the doctor has to order an expensive scan to make sure he isn't the 1 in 10,000 that has subdermal bleeding.  If he doesn't do it he opens himself up to suit even though there is virtually no chance it matters and is very expensive.

But you can see why this is difficult to quantify.  Some will say, "well why not just scan everyone?  Why just let 1 out of 10,000 die because the scan is expensive?"  And now you see why the American healthcare system is so expensive. 

TM7 is right in that there must be some recourse.  I think we all understand that.  If the doctor cuts the wrong leg off you should have some recourse.  But we also need to offer basic protection and standard minimum care guidelines (yes, rationing), if costs are going to be contained. 

The 1:20 statistic is misleading because OB doctors routinely face more suits than any other specialty. 

I will continue to advocate for a two tiered system, one for paying patients, one of goverment run clinics staffed by DOs and FMGs with basic guidelines and near immunity from suit for non-payers.  It scares the hell out of me when people argue that we should all have the healthcare that congress has.  I DO NOT want to pay for that for every non-working, lazy, stupid, or otherwise worthless American.  I can't even imagine how high taxes would be.  It seems obvious to me that if you're not paying for the service you should expect lower quality.

[mcwoodduck]

The 1:20 statistic is misleading because OB doctors routinely face more suits than any other specialty. 

No Kidding John Edwards (democrat ex VP candiate) made  10's of Millions on sueing OB's in a class action law suit that later science found his whole arguement to be wrong.  the 10's of Millions was his fee/ Cut, he got for the plaintiffs.  And it is this greed that has made the unnessary scans and extra tests as well as the costs of insurance to go up. 
Now if the Government is in charge of health care and you are not allowed to sue the government is that going to be how they address tort reform byt out lawing it and giving you no recourse and the doctors no consiquences?