Author Topic: Mauser or springfield the best ? (Read 3474 times)

bcraig · « **on:** February 10, 2010, 03:49:17 PM »

Hi, I just recently became very interested in Military rifles . Curious as to oppinions as to which rifle is better? By better I mean design execution and shootability. I really dont know very little about the Mauser and almost nothing about the Springfield. The only thing that sticksout in my old 50 yeard old memory is something about the springfields with some of them being soft and unsafe. I would really appreciate information from people who know about this.as have seen several offered for sale at what i consider good prices but was leery i might get a soft one. Thanks,Craig also interested in using these rifle for deer hunting.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2010, 03:57:04 PM »

There was an early run of 03's that were improperly heat treated. Don't know the exact serial number, so look it up on line on a Google search. The 03 is a copy of the Mauser 98, with several modifications. The US GVT had to pay the Germans a royalty for using the design. I think the Mauser 98 is a better action, at least it handles gas leaks better.

Larry

Victor3 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2010, 01:45:13 AM »

I have several examples of both and it's hard to go wrong with either. Most Mausers of the pre and early WWII era had the edge in the fit & finish department when new, but that sometimes becomes a moot point after use, corrosion and damage.

You'll generally pay more for an 03 or 03-A3 but IMO, most European made 98's in the same overall condition are of higher quality and a better value.

Mikey · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2010, 02:23:40 AM »

I would opt for the Mauser - the US had to pay Mauser hard $ for patent infringement for copying some of Mauser's designs.

Americans like to hang onto their military rifles, especially those used to win big wars but there is little to excite me toward a Springfield rather than the Mauser. I have a number of Mausers, no Springfields, by choice. I don't see a lot of difference between the two....

The Springfield is a good solid rifle and if you get a mil-surp, even a new production mil-surp there is nothing wrong with it. If you get a Mauser there is definately nothing wrong with it. I consider the Mauser the stronger action but since the Springfield is basically a Mauser action it is more than strong enough to handle the 30-06 cartridge it was designed for.

I believe that with the Springfield, some with serial numbers below either 80,000 or 82,000 were made from softer steel that needed better heat treating and it is not suggested to use those actions for customizing. Many received that treatment during WWII and the Springfield was most often seen as a sniper rifle during that war.

Mausers seem to be much more prevalent and in greater variety. Springers seem harder to come by in mil-spec form and also seem to cost a bunch more. jmtcw.

1911crazy · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2010, 02:39:06 AM »

The springfield is copied from the mauser. I don't think you go any better between the two with a german/yugo/czech mauser in 98 or 48 or 24 what ever. I'd perfer the real mauser over the springfield. Right now samco is still offering the yugo 24/47 in 8mm. www.samcoglobal.com/ There excellent ones sure are purdy i have one.

Now there's a faster bolt action military surplus rifle and its the 303 britt...

It just beat the springer hands down with gunny on the history channel. The ammo is tough to get but we have the prvi-partizan and hotshot brands of new ammo trickling in every now and them.

If you don't have your C&RFFL03 collectors license yet i would suggest getting it to cut out the middleman (dealers) this way you can deal direct with samco and it gets delivered to your door step by the BBT(ups). You can deal with and wholesaler who has C&R guns and ammo plus accessories too at discount dealer prices. The license costs $30 for 3 years and it takes only 30 days to get it from the BATF. You save that on your first C&R purchase. You also get discounts at www.brownells.com and www.midwayusa.com too on any of there products that they offer. (reloading, ammo, holsters ect.) You can also get C&R handguns too. www.aimsurplus.com

84Jim · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2010, 03:46:13 AM »

I think the biggest advantage of the Springfields are the sights. 1903's and 03A3's both have windage adjustable peep sights. They are easier to zero and I can generally shoot more accurately through a peep. BTW, the serial # for the "soft" receivers is 800,000 something.

mannyrock · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2010, 06:54:56 AM »

There is a big difference betweent the 1903 Springfield and the 1903-A3 Springfield. The first was manufactured and used in WWI, and thereafter, and the second was not manufactured and used unti the start of WWII. The seconded has a great peepsight, but was more cheaply made, using stamped parts, and used very hard steel, so the bolt (opening and closing) always drags and feels "sticky" (because it doesn't "wear in" and there is not much yolu can do about it). However, they are very strong rifles.

The older rifle, being the original 1903, is made of a slightly softer metal, and contains all milled parts. It is considered the better of the two rifles, BUT (i) has very small tangent sights like the 98 Mauser, which are really hard to line up except in a clear open field, and (ii) during WWI, rookie metal-smiths were added to the workforce at the Springfield and Rock Island arsenals, and proceeded to heat the receivers to way too high of a temperature, ruining the temper and making the actions brittle. How many thousands did they ruin this way? Nobody knows. Reports started coming in from the trenches of exploding actions, and actions breaking when struck with hard objects.

The military found out what was causing the problem and proceded to correct the procedures at the arsenals. However, to be sure that you do not get an action that is potentially defective (read that as dangerous), do not buy an 03 Springfield made at the Springfield arsenal unless it has a serial number above 800,000 and do not buy one made at the Rock Island arsenal unless it has a serial number above 400,000.

84Jim · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2010, 07:09:47 AM »

Mannyrock,

Well said. But the 1903's also have a windage adjustable peep.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/schemzoom.asp?schem=2070zSPRINGFIELD%201903

Its on the ladder when in the upright position, #42, below the triangular gizmo, #49. Its different being in that its mounted in front of the receiver, but still way better than the battle sight.

Jim

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2010, 07:19:39 AM »

IMO the 03A3 is one of the better shooters. I've had several and they were all very accurate.

The old saying used to be the Germans have the best hunting rifle, the Americans have the best target rifle, & the British have the best battle rifle.

This was refering to the Mauser, Springfield, and the Enfield.

kwells2006 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2010, 07:24:16 AM »

I've had a couple of each and I DEFINITELY prefer the Mauser.

mauser98us · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2010, 05:14:58 PM »

Also the Springer has a two piece striker which has the potential to come apart during firing. Albeit rare,the posibility of having the cocking piece in your face exists.

1911crazy · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2010, 05:35:08 AM »

Lets not forget the russian mosins too these were manufactured in the worst conditions during the war as the germans advanced into russia. I seen films of manufacturing plants with no roofs, exposed to the weather and the elements yet there were bold enough to manufacture them and they even came out with decent accuracy too. Don't let the machining marks and the crudness fool us these babies can shoot too.

There ya go price wise we gone the whole gambit from affordable/cheap(mosins/yugo mausers) to way over priced(USA stuff) in my opinion. Being frugal but yet wanted the most bang for my dollar i tend to stay with whats still affordable right now but it won't be for long.

To me the prices on the american made stuff is just silly thats why i don't own any yet. The prices on the used surplus military stuff is close or passed the new stuff i can by from springfield (m1 garands/ M14's) its way out of wack.

S.S. · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2010, 03:17:48 PM »

I too would choose the Mauser, You find a 6.5x55 Swede
in good condition and you have pretty much found the best.
But in all honesty, I have never encountered a Mauser I did not
like. Their sporting rifles (True sporters, not Bubba'd milsurps)
are things of beauty.

30-30man · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2010, 02:08:12 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on February 11, 2010, 07:19:39 AM

IMO the 03A3 is one of the better shooters. I've had several and they were all very accurate.

The old saying used to be the Germans have the best hunting rifle, the Americans have the best target rifle, & the British have the best battle rifle.

This was refering to the Mauser, Springfield, and the Enfield.

That has been around forever, but that is just not true. The Swedes and the Swiss have the best target rifle. A Swedish Mauser and a k31 swiss will outshoot or at least equal a Springfield any day of the week. They were designed from the ground up to be accurate. The Swedes and Swiss shimmed their rifles for accuracy before they left the factory.

If I had to chose between a Mauser and a Springfield, I'd go with the neither. I remember in the 60's Springfields were sold for around $40. People thought they were junk, now they bring more than commercial rifles. The same thing will happen to every surplus rifle in one fashion or the other as soon as supply dries up. The mauser is good, but I think the k31 Swiss or the Swedes are much better for the money. The have almost trippled in value in less than two years. There are a lot of mausers being sold with all the markings ground off. They are cheap, and not what a collector wants. These are Russian captures. It's hard to find a mauser with all the nazi stamps still on it, and if you do....It's going to be as much as the Springfield...They're just too costly for what you get...Buy cheap and enjoy the gain in value...Don't buy on the high end....If I were looking to buy millitary, I'd try to get a k31 right now. They will only go up in value.

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2010, 02:45:32 AM »

I didn't know the Swedes or the Swiss were involved.

84Jim · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2010, 04:53:00 AM »

Quote

A Swedish Mauser and a k31 swiss will outshoot or at least equal a Springfield any day of the week.
Quote

I agree. IMO, those three are the best Milsurp target rifles. Evidence is the scores turned in at the CMP Perry Springfield and Vintage rifle matches. You have to go pretty far down the list to find either a K98 or Enfield.

If the K31 and Swede's had issue sights equivalent to the Springfield, they probably would be better. Unfortunately, they don't.

84Jim · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2010, 05:06:53 AM »

FYI - http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/report_eventAward.cgi?matchID=4689&eventID=14&awardID=1

The top Springfield score was 293 6X

S.S. · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2010, 09:31:46 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on February 13, 2010, 02:45:32 AM

I didn't know the Swedes or the Swiss were involved.

Mausers were made all over the world

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2010, 11:30:03 AM »

The famous quote applies to the World Wars.

1911crazy · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2010, 04:22:55 AM »

I'm sure by now most are confused about what to buy or whats a better rifle than the other.

If you haven't nailed down what you want yet, here's some info and a list to consider when looking at them;

Swede m96 / m96/38 / m38 / m94 6,5mm x 55mm mauser
(made by Carl Gustaf / Oberndorf / Husqvarna)

Chilean M93 / M95 7mm x 57mm mauser 29" barrel or carbine
(made by Lowe / DWM)

Yugo model 98k 8mm x 57mm mauser
(this is a german 98k mauser that was captured by the yugo's and the german markings ground off and its restamped with there crown. Your buying a real 98k german mauser at a yugo price)

Yugo Model 24/47 in 8mm x 57mm (these are still offered and there affordable too)

Swiss k31 in 7,5mm x 55mm swiss. (these are still being offered too, plus the swiss GP11 ammo is a match grade ammo)

Finnish Mosin model 27 / 39 in 7,62x54r (these are offered time to time lately(M39) too but there getting more rare. These were captured russian rifles from the russo/finnish 1939 winter war and converted into finnish rifles. The receiver has the russian date and the barrel has the finnish date as to when it was built and rebuilt by both countries. These stocks are shimmed by the finn's too.)

Finnish Mosin model 91/30 in 7,62x54r ( I've seen different looking rifles of the same model. One finnish 91/30 still has the skinny russian stock while the other has the finnish fatty stock, some have the [SA] finnish marking and i seen some with the #41 finnish markings too. These stocks are shimmed for accuracy too by the finn's.)

Here's a site with lots of info; www.carbinesforcollectors.com/

Its a good thing to be armed with knowledge and info before you go out looking.

enjoy, bill

Get your C&RFFL03 collectors license once you been bitten by the surplus bug you will be glad you did get it.

blackpowderbill · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2010, 08:35:28 AM »

Just my 2 cents. As a military rifle I'd take the Kar98A (this mod in particular) over the m1903. Better sights for field duty, better bayonet attatchment method and overall cleaner design. Change out the M1903 with a M1903A3 and the improved sights would bump the A3 slightly over the Kar98A. The other points of difference are not deal breakers.
As a target range rifle, any m1903 mod over the Kar98A, again due to the sights. BTW I once tried to hunt with an as issued M1903. I do not see how the troops could have faught with it. The sights are nearly invisable when in the down possition. Great target sights however.

351 power · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2010, 03:29:40 PM »

what about a p14 or a m1917?

mannyrock · « **Reply #22 on:** February 16, 2010, 05:40:37 AM »

Guys,

The mauser vs. springfield question all depends on what you want to do with it. If you want an exellent, sturdy, accurate rifle, with an excellent peep-site, that you can shoot or hunt with "as is", without spending a dime for modifications, then the 1903-A3 is the answer. The total cost will be around $600 to $700.

If you want a great rifle, that will be a wonderful all purpose rifle after you spend lots of dollars on it in modification, then the 98 Mauser is the answer. The combat tangent sights on the Mausers are simply not as good or all-purpose as the peep sight on the 1903-A3.

REgards,

Mannyrock

s

docmagnum357 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 06, 2010, 06:15:48 PM »

I have had and hunted with both a springfeild o3, and a haenel ghwer 98. I have two mauser rifles of unknown manufacture right now that i hunt with. One is a 243, the othe is original barrel 8x57, wiht peep sights, ands a severely whittled on stock. I easily shot groundhogs with the o3, wqith the targt type sight flipped up. the two mausers are ok the 243 wears a scope, and can probably dispatch ground hogs or deer at 400 yards + The peep sighted mauser I bougt to bear hunt with. The 243 wS a gift. also hunted with a basically stock k98. Springfeild beat them all, hands down for accuracy. beautiful piece of work. And it was a below 400000 serial #ROCK ISland, so i traded it off. And the receiversa were possibly BRITTLEi.e. TOOO HARD, not to soft.

eod20 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 07, 2010, 02:24:18 PM »

i have no idea where i read it but it was something like this ......

a mauser is a hunting rifle , a springfield is a target rifle but the enfield is a battle rifle

i have never carried any of them into battle so i can not answer that, but i do own 2 mausers both in 8mm a stock milsup and a bubba custom both shoot very well and have both taken deer the enfields i have are all stock milsup and shoo well enough for government work but are beat hands down by both mausers

1911crazy · « **Reply #25 on:** May 08, 2010, 09:17:00 AM »

I have a few different mausers to compare them. I find the german 98k and the yugo model98(its a captured german 98k with the markings changed) to have the same smooth bolts while the other mauser bolt actions don't even come close to the feel of the german manufactured mauser. (large ring mausers) To me the next bolt action "mauser" that comes close in smoothness is the argentine 1891 in 7,65mm of course its german manufactured too. My point is if your looking for a large ring mauser i would compare the feel of the bolt action too if you can. Some are smoother than the others.

For the small ring mid bore mausers I think the swedish 6,5mm and the chilean 7mm mausers are pretty equal and unmatched in there quality. The spanish small ring just doesn't have the same smoothness on the bolts, its close but a tad different.

The russian mosins are like a cheap 22 bolt action its crude but it works and these can be smoothed out with a little work too. Its a no frills, no bells or whistles action but it gets the job done. I think the finnish mosins took the russian mosin design to a whole new level in accuracy too.

While the britts had no semi auto rifle the 303 britt bolt action was it. I think its the best bolt action rifle ever made in fastness of the operation.

1911crazy · « **Reply #26 on:** May 08, 2010, 09:21:30 AM »

Quote from: S.S. on February 13, 2010, 09:31:46 AM

Quote from: Swampman on February 13, 2010, 02:45:32 AM
I didn't know the Swedes or the Swiss were involved.

Mausers were made all over the world

The Germans manufactured there mausers for most of the countries and most of the world right? I think there are as many different countries that use mausers back then as there are countries that use the ak47 today they were that popular.

prairiedog555 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 10, 2010, 06:23:56 AM »

I have and shoot both. I vote for the 'O3 which I have in both un-modified form and a very well done sporter.
The sporter is free floated and a Timminy trigger and scope. Will shoot around honest 3/4 groups.
The military 'o3 shoot great also, use ladder sight peep, military trigger is very good.

Now the mauser is a Yugo which I also put a Boyd's trigger on it. But the problem seems to be to me in finding 8mm ammo. Factory is loaded down (supposedly because of all the pre ww1 Mausers) so I shoot commie 8mm.
And sights are fixed and need to be adjusted.

Anyway, Mauser is much cheaper, but you almost have to reload and drill for a scope. Which is OK, and 8mm is a great round.

Richard P · « **Reply #28 on:** May 10, 2010, 03:52:27 PM »

If you're looking at an 03a3 dont neglect the 2 groove barrels. They will shoot very well. REgarding the Moisins, one of the best is the model 28-30 reworked by the Finns. It has great sights. rp

Mikey · « **Reply #29 on:** May 11, 2010, 01:48:08 AM »

prairiedog555: Get some Sellier and Bellot 8mm ammo for that Yugo - it is made to original european specifications and shoots very accurately in my Yugo M48A, and every other 8mm I own. The S&B advertises a 196 gn bullet at 2500'/sec and that is right where 8mm Mauser ammo should be. PRVI also makes great 8mm ammo and their's is right up there in the power department too. Don't waste your time on US made ammo as it is loaded down to about 30-30 levels - if you have to, just get it for the brass......