Author Topic: Thinking About New 4 Wheeler. 2WD or 4WD??? (Read 2284 times)

Dave1 · « **on:** November 07, 2003, 01:48:05 AM »

My 1986 Yamaha 2wd ATV is old and just about wore out. Deep water and mud has just about taken its toll on this old soldier and I am thinking about a new 4 wheeler. Probably a new Yamaha or Honda. I am wondering about whether to go with a 2wd or 4wd version. One doubt or concern that I have about the 4wd versions is the potential for corrosion and water damage in the front wheel drive ujoints, bearings, etc. The rubber boots on the front drive axles don't look very durable to me and I am wondering just how water proof the entire front end drive units are.

I run in water and mud almost everytime out, 6" - 18" is common but occasionally deeper and I am concerned about the future expense and trouble of having to rebuild/replace those front end drive parts.

I would appreciate any feedback of your experience and opinion on these new units.

Thanks, Dave1
davisalf@aol.com

Old Syko · « **Reply #1 on:** November 07, 2003, 02:46:17 PM »

Dave, once you've been spoiled with 4 wheel drive you'll never want to be without it again. Contamination to c/v joints, front diffs and so on is all but unheard of on the newer bikes. The Kodiak and Grizzly are suseptable to water problems with the belt drive in stock form. Every one here either snorkels the inlets and outlets to the belt or installs a filter in each before dealing with deep water. Polaris riders have this problem also in some cases but not as bad as the Yammy riders. My Kawasaki has never had any problems with water, mud or anything else nor have any of the Hondas I ride with.

My advice would be to buy whatever is most readily available in your area. This is one time you really don't want to be different.

DirtyHarry · « **Reply #2 on:** November 07, 2003, 09:02:54 PM »

Dave, the next atv I get will be a 4wd, I have a 2003 Yamaha Raptor. It is fast,but when I try to ride with my friends in the woods I am always getting pulled out of mud holes with thier 4wd and winch. If you run through mud and water alot I would definately get a 4wd. :grin:

Chubbs · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2003, 04:48:02 PM »

Get you a 4WD but on that locks in and out. If you have that you can have the best of both worlds. The mian key to mud and water is when you get done is to wash off real good and then grease it real good. I have a 700 polaris with nearly 1000 miles and the boots seem to be doing great.

264 WIN MAG · « **Reply #4 on:** November 11, 2003, 07:08:21 AM »

Quote from: Old Syko

Dave, once you've been spoiled with 4 wheel drive you'll never want to be without it again. Contamination to c/v joints, front diffs and so on is all but unheard of on the newer bikes. The Kodiak and Grizzly are suseptable to water problems with the belt drive in stock form. Every one here either snorkels the inlets and outlets to the belt or installs a filter in each before dealing with deep water. Polaris riders have this problem also in some cases but not as bad as the Yammy riders. My Kawasaki has never had any problems with water, mud or anything else nor have any of the Hondas I ride with.

My advice would be to buy whatever is most readily available in your area. This is one time you really don't want to be different.

I have a 2004 Grizzly and the first thing I did was bring it through water almost up to the top of the engine and no problem with the belt at all. From what I have seen the Polaris and Kawasaki has more problems with the belts.

Old Syko · « **Reply #5 on:** November 11, 2003, 02:24:52 PM »

Tell ya what there 264, wouldn't have a bike that wouldn't go through stuff (almost to the top of the motor) without a problem. After all that ain't more than a damp day around here on the county roads. And here I thought you were from down cajun way!

All bs aside, any belt drive needs certain attention to avoid contamination problems. Got a friends Kodiak in my shop now waiting on a belt and sheaves because he didn't take necessary precautions before going through 4 foot or better deep soup last week. He tried to tell me my Kaw knocked the bottom out of it before he got there therefore causing him these problems. Problem was I followed a highly modified 700 Sportsman through the same hole. By the way, the guy riding this 700 should be the poster child for Polaris.

At any rate, they all have their modification needs but like I've said before, the Grizzly is still my 2nd choice.

rub rub

264 WIN MAG · « **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2003, 03:38:05 AM »

I dont understand what people mean by belt problems really. Is there times when the belt will be slipping but still going? I dont get it. I have seen plenty of belts slip before but all the ones I have seen just pretty much came to a dead stop and couldnt turn the tires and then started smoking and stuff. When I took my new grizz through that hole it never missed a beat and when I would give it some more gas it would take off immediately. I do plan on getting the snorkel put on probably after hunting season though. I want to get the motor broke in first.

Old Syko · « **Reply #7 on:** November 12, 2003, 06:09:29 AM »

Water flooding the belt and clutch will cause them to slip and sometimes to the point of not pulling any more but usually just to the point of making noise and limiting forward motion. In our experience here the water is less of a problem than the mud and rocks that get washed in with it. If you only have a water problem you can go to dry ground and rev the engine in neutral for a minute or two and it will clear right up. Mud and rocks require some disassembly in most cases. This is why we run either foam rubber or panty hose over the belt intake and exhaust vent tubes. Don't stop the water but will stop the big chunks that cause the major damage. By the way, we do this to everything with a belt reguardless of brand. Still if you're in deep water all the time, nothing beats some pvc snorkle extensions.

264 WIN MAG · « **Reply #8 on:** November 12, 2003, 06:44:00 AM »

Well, I plan on snorkeling it but the way mine is run now it goes to the back and is down low. It comes out by the rear differential and then goes up under the back of the seat and goes up under the handlebar and then down to the belt housing. I would have to be in some pretty deep water to get it all the around like that. If I was going to run in something like that I am going to get the 300 and take it out there. What I was talking about was the housing itself leaking and that has been what I have seen most of the times I have seen belts slip. I knew some guys that bought a bunch of Kawasaki 300s and they all leaked at the housing and then I saw a lot of people that got 500 HOs that leaked at the housing. I have also seen a few Grizzlys that leaked like this too. Mine has not had a problem in the housing but I guess time will tell.

markc · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2003, 04:28:01 AM »

this is all the more reason for my next ATV to be a manual shift.
markc

Old Syko · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2003, 02:29:03 PM »

They all have their problems. Went riding at Lynnville, just east of Evansville In. a week ago and pulled out a Quadzilla, Raptor, Foreman, and a Rancher. As I said, they all have their problems. Maybe next time one of them will pull me out, who knows? Automatics are what I prefer and have since my days of drag racing 30 some years ago due to consistency and the lack of required repairs.

Dave1, who started this thread, and I have discussed this subject and his feelings are much the same as Markc. Guess that's why they make so many different types of these things. All I ask is, if you see an old fat guy, in mud up to his whatsit along the trail some day, throw him a line. He'll do the same for you if need be.

264 WIN MAG · « **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2003, 03:50:53 PM »

I have always been a big fan of a manual but after owning a CVT I have to say I like it. Not to mention if something breaks it will often be the belt and they are not all that expensive. It's alot cheaper than repairing all kinds of mechanical parts.

Tony D · « **Reply #12 on:** November 14, 2003, 04:21:25 AM »

I too like the CVT on an ATV (how's that for slinging acronyms?) I bought a 2002 Kodiak 400 and truly love it. I keep it at my hunting club and seldom ride through deep water and when I have, had no problems with the belt slipping.

Besides not having to shift, the big reason I like the auto trans is the full floor boards. My club is in the Mississippi river bottoms and we call the mud "gumbo." It is thick and sticky! The guys with manual trannies get a lot of mud from between the front and rear fenders, no problem with my Kodiak. I know you can get the full floor boards with the Honda ESP models - I've ridden them and still prefer the CVT.

markc · « **Reply #13 on:** November 15, 2003, 08:02:38 AM »

their manual tranny models also have full floor boards. They accomplish this by having a rocker (heel/toe) manual shifter similar to what you find on some Harleys.
markc

kc5rkg · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2003, 04:45:44 AM »

I would also tell you to get a four wheel drive. You might not think you need it now, but who knows where you'll be in 5 years? I have a 2002 Polaris 325 4x4 and have had no problems so far. Good luck with whatever you pick!

Dave1 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 26, 2003, 07:09:41 AM »

Are the slipping belts and the need for snorkeling yall are talking about only on the automatic transmission models??

Because I am leery of the new gadgets, electric this and that, I will most likely go with a manual trans model. What, if any, modifications should would be advisable for a manual trans model 4WD to prevent water intrusion and expensive maint costs down the road?

I will probably make the plunge into a new selectable mid-size 4WD version. I read thru some ATV forums and it seems there are fewer problems and complaints with Yamaha than the other brands. Hondas seem to have a good following but some problems and complaints are evident. The older model Yamaha ATVs and outboard motors I and others own seem to be bullet proof. I am leaning toward the Yamaha product but haven't made up my mind yet.

Dave1

Old Syko · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2003, 11:18:23 AM »

Dave, the snorkeling we so impolitely hijacked your thread to discuss is necessary for any atv that is to be used in deep water no matter if it's belt drive or manual shift. Only thing is with the belt drive you have 2 extra snorkels to run for clutch cooling that the manual don't use. Deep water is usually defined as something over the racks and seat. Most people will never try such things on a regular basis therefor snorkeling isn't necessary.

Dave, I can't help but think you've been misled into believing there are more electronics on the belt drives than on the manuals. This is not necessarily so. For example, the Big Bear and the Kodiak by Yamaha are basically the same bike. Only difference being belt or manual. Same electronics in the ignitions and all that rot. The only real difference is in the type of drive mechanics, not the electronics.

If you want something old school don't bother buying a new atv of any kind as they are all in the same boat nowdays. They all have more electronics than what you're presently riding but you can't let that bother you. Ride some of the new ones a couple times and buy what you like. You'll be amazed at how they've changed since you bought your last one.

Good Luck!

Justin10mm · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2004, 01:22:41 PM »

Hey Dave1, I have a '99 Yamaha Big Bear 350 4x4, and it is great! In case you did not know Big Bears have Manual tranys. If I was you I would take a look at a new 400 Big Bear 4x4. :-)

264 WIN MAG · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2004, 07:14:18 AM »

I used to be against belt drive transmissions until I bought one. I have a hopped up 300 fourtrax and now I have a 660 Grizzly. I hate to say it but the belt drive is awesome and the Grizzly goes tons of places that my old 300 couldn't even think about going.

xnmr53 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2004, 02:47:42 PM »

I have a 2000 Grizzly. When I'm not riding it for fun, I'm using it to move sand around my place with a 4' blade, towing a disk harrow, a fertilizer spreader, or a utility trailer. Not a complaint so far from the transmission, and it's a lot easier to deal with load changes or sudden steep hills (up or down) than with a manual transmission.

264 WIN MAG · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2004, 07:20:57 AM »

One of the things I love the most about the automatic transmission is you don't have to worry about bogging down in some serious mud from changing gears. Just put that sucker in fully locked and low range and give it however much gas you need to make it through.

I used to have alot of problems on my 300 fourtrax that I built up strictly for swamp riding. The problem was that when I would get in some deep mud and end up having to downshift half way across a hole I would put my foot down and no shift lever because it is buried under the mud. Seems like on the 300 there is too much of a gap between first and second gear and there is alot of stuff I can push my 28" laws in 2nd but sometimes I have to downshift to 1st and then the problem arises.

markc · « **Reply #21 on:** January 26, 2004, 03:25:10 AM »

on that large gap between 1st and 2nd gear. On Honda's manual tranny quads, they always used a super low 1st gear as a selling point, whereas other manufacturers put a dual range tranny on theirs so you could go low range for serious work, and high range for trail riding etc.. With the extra low 1st gear on Honda, there may have been a bit more of a gap in the rpm's between 1st and 2nd than would be preferred. Hadn't thought of it that way until now, but never cared for the super low 1st gear anyway.
markc

264 WIN MAG · « **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2004, 07:30:26 AM »

Well, in my case it is not a bad idea because I run extremely large and aggressive mud tires on a fairly undersized (even after the mods) machine. The super low is great but when you are going good and go to switch into "1st" it just bogs down because the gap is so great the engine can't keep up. I am glad to see that Honda finally abandonned this idea and now they don't use that super low anymore. Who needs it anyhow being that you almost can't buy anything smaller than a 400 now.

varmit_master · « **Reply #23 on:** August 05, 2004, 10:12:00 AM »

Hi i have a Rancher 350 2002 model it has a 2500pds winch on it and Super Swamper tires and i had it added wher you can kick it in and out of 4 wheel drive i like it alot VM

ragdude · « **Reply #24 on:** August 22, 2004, 04:50:28 PM »

Quote from: kc5rkg

I would also tell you to get a four wheel drive. You might not think you need it now, but who knows where you'll be in 5 years? I have a 2002 Polaris 325 4x4 and have had no problems so far. Good luck with whatever you pick!

does the 325 4x4 have enough power? I'm not as interested in speed, so long as it'll climb and pull.

264 WIN MAG · « **Reply #25 on:** August 23, 2004, 02:14:43 AM »

That all depends on what you want to do with it. If ride is an issue the 325 doesn't come with IRS while the SP400 does. Also the SP400 is a 425cc motor. They are not the fastest bikes around but they can get the job done. I still feel the 500HO is the best Polaris has to offer IMO.