BFG Design - An Introduction

[fireball168]

What started off as an obsession with big game and varmint wildcat cartridges, changed in to a combination of both with the introduction of the Indiana "Pistol Caliber Rifle".

I took all that I had learned and applied it to my first project - the 358 BFG (WSSM).


Other cartridges followed shortly thereafter.  Some have been successful, some not so much - but either way I've had fun playing with them.  And that's what it is all about.


I've secured a number of trusted suppliers of reloading dies, brass, projectiles and barrel manufacturers - with the sole purpose of enabling you to complete your wildcat or custom rifle build on time, and on budget.

I inventory the full line of BFG cartridges, preformed brass, barrels for numerous platforms and dies, along with many other wildcat and standard cartridges.


As my website designer is the same poor chump that answers the phone, manages the inventory and shipping, cleans the shop and does the accounting - the vast majority of the chamberings we offer aren't listed on the site.


I generally keep factory 500 S&W T/C rifle barrels in stock.  The full line of factory T/C barrels are generally available at VERY competitive prices.

Custom barrels in 357 Maximum, 44 Magnum and 445 Super Magnum, 45 Winchester Magnum, 454 Casull and 50 Action Express among others, as well as the full line of the BFG chambers are all special order to your specifications. 

I often keep the more popular combinations in stock. 

When possible, and at your request, all may be chambered and throated more appropriately for a rifle than a handgun for best performance.  This often restricts the usage of the barrel to "new" brass, as once fired brass out of a SAAMI chamber often won't fit.


I also offer drop-in, prethreaded and chambered Savage barrels for the rimless cartridges and the BFG wildcats.


AR-15 upper receivers in 50 Action Express and 458 SOCOM are available from time to time, availability can be a bit sketchy even now that the rush seems to be past us.


I'm always up for a new project to experiment with - and you never know, somebody may have sponsored something similar already.



Our latest experiment is quite simply the 357 Herrett shortened up to 1.625" (357 BFG).  Tightened up the chamber base dimension, throat OD and optimized the freebore length for appropriate .358" projectiles in single shot and repeater platforms(Hornady FTX).

Using off the shelf 357 Herrett dies and easily formed brass from either 30-30, 32 Special or 375 Winchester (depending on how hard you want to push it).  It will likely be the most cost effective wildcat I've offered to date - with performance similar to the 358 Gremlin.

No custom dies, no exotic brass - and thus far it appears to feed well in a Marlin 336.


I'm looking forward to supporting this dedicated forum and seeing it grow with all you folks. 

Thanks,

Bryan

www.bfgcartridges.com

[Dinny]

Bryan,
  What do you have to say about rechambering .357 Mag H&R Handi rifles to either your .357 BFG or .358 Gremlin?

What advantages does the .357 BFG offer over the .357 Maxi?

Thanks, Dinny

[fireball168]

Bryan,
  What do you have to say about rechambering .357 Mag H&R Handi rifles to either your .357 BFG or .358 Gremlin?

All my testing and data is based on a .350/358 bore and groove.

It would require a good deal of caution and careful selection of projectiles to restart the data workup based on a .346/.355 (or whatever they are currently slugging at from NEF).

If I was going to build either on an NEF - I think I'd find a used varmint weight barrel, send to Clearwater, Pederson or JSE for a rebore to .350/.358 and start from there.  Although by the time that was done, you'd be well into the expense of a custom T/C barrel.

It is hard to beat the 357 Maximum for ease of use and loading.

Case capacity in H20 of the 357 Max is 32-33 grains.

Case capacity in H20 of the 357 Herrett, shortened to 1.625" is 38.5 after fireforming(depending on the brass).

Not a huge difference, but often Herrett dies can be found on the cheap and brass is certainly plentiful.

[LaOtto222]

fireball168 - I am not sure where you got the impression that H&R 357 barrels are undersized. There have many of them chambered to 35 Remington shooting standard factory loads (.358" bullets). I have personally shot .357 and .358 sized bullets in my 357 Max with no ill effects. The rifling in the 357 Mag barrels are rather shallow and there is a lot of free bore, even when Maximized - so that may have some thing to do with it?? Pressures of a .357 BFG would be too high for a Handi rifle for sure, but the shortened 357 Herrett should be right in it's range - as long as you do not exceed 50K psi or so. Of course you have much more experience about these things, I am sure. So maybe there is some thing I am missing?

While I am on this thread - You said that you would have 357 BFG barrels for a Savage action. Would that have to be based on a Large ring action?

[fireball168]

fireball168 - I am not sure where you got the impression that H&R 357 barrels are undersized.

The last two I rechambered to 357 Maximum slugged .355" in the grooves. 

Not undersized for their original intended projectiles, but certainly undersized as compared to the barrels that I was using to work up my data for .358" projectiles.

You said that you would have 357 BFG barrels for a Savage action. Would that have to be based on a Large ring action?

I'll only make the 358 BFG-WSSM barrels on a large shank 1.125" (WSM or Precision Target) Savage action.

[Dinny]

Bryan,
  Has anyone asked about the .460 Dinny Special yet? That's a pipe dream I have had where the .460 S&W is shortened to 1.625". Think it would work? Any advantages over the 454 Casull?

Thanks, Dinny

[fireball168]

Several folks have talked about it, at least two fellows have shortened the case up and ran it in the existing chamber.  Seems like I see a fair amount for sale from Indiana residents though.

$150 for a reamer to cut a proper chamber, if there were at least two folks interested in one - I'd do a couple.

[Dinny]

Several folks have talked about it, at least two fellows have shortened the case up and ran it in the existing chamber.  Seems like I see a fair amount for sale from Indiana residents though.

$150 for a reamer to cut a proper chamber, if there were at least two folks interested in one - I'd do a couple.

Bryan,
  What exactly have you seen for sale? TC barrels with custom/shortened chambers or TC barrels chambered for the full 460 S&W? Makes me wonder if it's due to recoil or the twist has been slightly off and bullets aren't flying straight?? Poor accuracy??

Your thoughts?

Thanks, Dinny

[fireball168]

Used factory T/C Kataydin 460 S&W barrels seem to be pretty common in the market.  Some even include cut down brass.  I've never inquired as to why they are trying to sell/trade out.

[Dinny]

Used factory T/C Kataydin 460 S&W barrels seem to be pretty common in the market.  Some even include cut down brass.  I've never inquired as to why they are trying to sell/trade out.

I would almost bet the freebore ahead of the shortened case is an accuracy killer...... 

I would almost bet there's enough interest in the Handi rifle forums to pay for that reamer. Let me figure out a way to convince a few other folks and then I will look for a .45LC barrel to ream.

Thanks, Dinny

[Dinny]

Bryan,
  Can you give average operating pressures for the following cartridges?

.357 BFG
.358 BFG
.358 Gremlin

Thanks, Dinny

[fireball168]

Bryan,
  Can you give average operating pressures for the following cartridges?

.357 BFG
.358 BFG
.358 Gremlin

Thanks, Dinny

357 BFG -> 357 Herrett

358 BFG -> 358 Winchester

358 Gremlin -> Just takes $$$$ to find out

[Dinny]

It appears they would all be suitable for a H&R SB2 rifle receiver. Maybe we can get Lonny to volunteer his .357 Mag barrel for a rechamber experiment. 

Thanks, Dinny

[LaOtto222]

Dinny - I could be wrong on this, but it seems that Quickdtoo (Tim) tried a 30 WSSM or a 338 WSSM and he had big problems with it. The case head size and the pressure it develops, put just too much pressure on the breech face causing set back on the barrel lug and then opened up the barrel/frame gap. The case head size has a lot to do with how much pressure is put on the breech face, not just cartridge pressure. PM Tim to find out for sure or do a search in the Handi section. I would think the cartridges that were based on smaller diameter parent cases would be fine. Good Luck and Good Shooting

[fireball168]

I won't consider doing anything on a WSSM case in an H&R/NEF.

[Dinny]

I won't consider doing anything on a WSSM case in an H&R/NEF.

PM or not, that answers that.

LaOtto,
  FWIW, you're absolutely right. I forgot about case head size. .

Thanks, Dinny

[Graybeard]

Most reputable gunsmiths will not even chamber the fat short magnums in the Encore much less the handi rifles. Dunno about derivitives from the case but the Winchester and Remington fat mags are generally considered too much for safety in both rifles.

[Dinny]

Bryan,
  I've been reading some of your posts(in other places) about the 7.62 x 25. Please tell us how you can make it a subsonic, accurate, coon killing machine.  I have a close friend who is in the process of spending a small fortune to find a quiet rifle capable of killing large coons year round. He shoots plenty of them with a 22LR, but most of them run off to die out of sight. He has also tried the 5.7x28, but it has a loud report. I have repeatedly told him to find a small case with a big bullet that has enough velocity to lodge a bullet in the boiler room. I need help convincing him to try some things. Currently he's trying Trail Boss in large pistol calibers. Your suggestions?

  On a separate note, I have seen you mention the 458 SOCOM. Can you build a bolt-gun chambered in the Big SOCOM?  Do you have a reamer? Do you know Marty? 



Thanks, Dinny

[LaOtto222]

Obviously I am not Brian - but I have been using 38 Special cases, a Hornady 148 grain HBWC, Remington 1 1/2 primers and 3.0 grains of Bullseye as a pest control load. I have shot and killed several 'coons. I have been using them in a Handi 357 that has been reamed to 357 Maximum and I get good accuracy and enough knock down power to make instant kills on small critters like raccoons. They are quiet too. I shot a raccoon and a skunk one night in the back yard and never woke my wife up. Another time I shot a woodchuck and she asked me if I got a shot - she did not hear the shot in side the house. Load a few up, I  think you will find them accurate as well as quiet. A 148 grain Wad Cutter going at 850 - 900 fps drops them real quick if you hit them in the boiler room and you keep the distance under 50 yards. Most of my shots have been in the 25 - 30 yard range.

[fireball168]

I'd be concerned about overpenetration with heavier bullets on the 7.62x25, just like the 300 Whisper.  That little 90g Hornady XTP is a bomb at the supersonic velocities mentioned, and due to the small charge weights - doesn't make a whole lot of noise.  I'm sure they could be downloaded with decent and hopefully controlled expansion.


I've been playing with the SOCOM case for the last three years - I call my version the 458 BFG.  I've got at least one Encore barrel in stock now, and a few Savage barrels should be coming in shortly.

There is a link to a video on the 458 page on the website of a Savage short action feeding the SOCOM case.

I've got reamers!

I met Marty last year at SHOT in Orlando - he was a lot more interested in a friend I had with me than anything else - but yes, we've met.

[fireball168]

A 148 grain Wad Cutter going at 850 - 900 fps drops them real quick if you hit them in the boiler room and you keep the distance under 50 yards.

Amen to that.