not necessary to carry in church... or is it?

[SHOOTALL]

If Richmond Ca. is worst why has it not made #1 on the most murders per population list from the FBI ? I took a defense class several years back and several in the class were ER doctors . Seems if the battle isn't over they finisn in the ER quite often. Where did you live in Richmond Va. ?

[billy_56081]

Years ago at our Church the old biddys had a fit when a Sheriffs deputy would carry his sidearm into the Church while on duty. (It was allowable for a deputy to attend services if his radio was kept with him). The Church board told the ols women that their complaints were invalid and dismissed them outright.

[bubbinator]

It NEVER happens here!  Per Montgomery, AL PD !   This Easter Sunday some scumbag sex offender tried to snatch a 10 yr. old girl from the church parking lot Ester Egg Hunt by asking to see what what was in her basket. He dragged her into the back of an Nissan X-Tera SUV and started to drive off.  She escaped from the vehicle as it started to drive off. Thank God.  Had you been in a position to intervene, how would you feel if your politically-correct CCW was at home?  NEVER LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT.  Even a burst of .22 rds. over this guys head could have saved a life!

[Dee]

It NEVER happens here! 

This attitude has been the demise of many a "911 American". Problem? Call 911. Rape in progress? Call 911. Burglary in progress? Call 911. Robbery in progress? Call 911.
And the list, and the stats go on and on. This country is full of easy victims (targets), and is getting easier all the time.
My rule of thumb is: If there are people there, something could go wrong. If there are "no people" there, something could go wrong. If I have a gun, and no one knows it. I have an advantage, if there is a possibility of having an advantage.

[SHOOTALL]

It never ever happened anywhere until it happened the first time .
 Good plan Dee !

[Old Fart]

Shootall it always amazes me that people don't recognize that the child molesters are where the kids are.
I'm glad the kiddo was able to get away. Here in Oklahoma church carry is legal as long as the gunbuster sign isn't on the door.
Mine goes where I go. Except where it's illegal. And then I lock it in my car safe until I'm through there.

[t-reg]

Carry in a church is legal here with permission of the Pastor.

I would not brother up with a group that didn't believe in self defense.

Nor would I donate money to an organization that is not pro 2A.

[bubbinator]

Easter Sunday, 2010 Montgomery, Al -a 10 yr. old girl was snatched from a church parking lot in west Montgomery but she managed to escape from the vehicle as it drove out of the parking lot.  All caught on video sueveillance cams. Four days later Atlanta PD confronted a suspect in another abduction case, same vehicle/physical description, and he killed himself in the stand-off.  MPD confirmed yesterday that it was the same person.  This thing "never" happens here, everyone said.  But it did, in the blink of an eye.  How would you feel, if you were legal to carry, and didn't?  Found yourself in a position to stop something like this and could not?  I personally don't want to face those demons in my mind for the rest of my life !  Put your gun in your pocket/belt.

[mechanic]

I have to go to Montgomery to work on occasion.  I carry everywhere when I'm there.  That is one of those places where I just feel like something is bound  to happen....if you know what I mean.  Enough obvious drug dealers and prostitutes  that you don't have to look for them.  If they quadrupled the police they wouldn't have enough.

[SHOOTALL]

vajohn if its worst than Rich. Va. was in the 80's its a very bad place , are they in the top 2 for murders ?

[kctibs]

I carry in church every Sunday it is promoted by the preacher to all trained people in the congreation.

[bubbinator]

Update on the Montgomery, AL Attempted Kidnapping:  4 days later Atlanta PD confronted a suspect in another similar sitaution: same vehicle/same MO/ same description: Stand-off/ shootout- Coward (censored word) shot himself.  Further investigation connected the two cases. Score 1 APD-BG/AH-0. Just proves the point- It was a bad guy doing bad things in a place where we are not expecting bad things. Carry your gun!

[jackruff]

Concealed carry is illegal in a church in this state.  No one carries in my church, or do they?  How would the rest of us know?  We do have a state trooper who sometimes attends in uniform with his sidearm as well as a city policeman.  The police officer has even performed in a small musical group while in uniform and armed!  Nobody has said anything about it that I know about.  I think everybody feels very good about it.

[tonantius]

If it is legal, I would carry in church. You never know when evil when arrive.

[tonantius]

Many churches in Colorado are encouraging their members to get CCW and carry for security.

[coyotejoe]

Someone would have to hold a gun on me to get me into a church. I attend the "church of the great outdoors". Yes, I do carry in my church.

[FourBee]

Someone would have to hold a gun on me to get me into a church. I attend the "church of the great outdoors". Yes, I do carry in my church.

coyotejoe; I can see why.  Many churches don't warn us to flee from the judgement that is to come.

[coyotejoe]

Where would you run anyhow?

[FourBee]

Where would you run anyhow?

The Holy Bible holds the answer.   Many begin to search but grow weary and give up .   
But the scriptures tell us to "Seek and Ye shall find"
Matthew 13:44 ¶ Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

 Peter 4:18  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Every man must seek out his own salvation with fear and trembling.

[E Texas Minuteman]

Honestly, who would know unless you are flashing it around?
And if you ever did need it, folks just might be thanking
God that you had it. Most churches are private property any how?
Should the gov't be able to tell a congregation what goes on in
their church? Does the gov't meddling in church affairs not
violate the constitution?

I'm with you, SS.

I'm more concerned with what's Lawful, than with what's legal.   

Lawful is the 2nd Amendment.  Legal is what Chucky Schumer is comfortable with.   

And only if the church specifically requests that "no weapons in the church" due to policy or doctrine, should that be observed.

It's their right under their beliefs (as much as I disagree vehemently with my Mennonite brethren over their pacificist stance), and as  property owners to request this standard. 

Of course, it would also preclude my membership in their church, due to divergent views on several levels

Thanks for the great discussion,   E Texas Minuteman

Jesus said:  "Let him who has a cloak, sell it an buy a sword.....The disciple replied, LORD we have two swords.....Jesus said...that is sufficient."

[E Texas Minuteman]

Someone would have to hold a gun on me to get me into a church. I attend the "church of the great outdoors". Yes, I do carry in my church.

coyotejoe; I can see why.  Many churches don't warn us to flee from the judgement that is to come.

Amen, FourBee. 

Most chuches today are "seeker friendly" - which is to say they flatter our sinful nature. 

They don't describe the glory of the LORD for all his wondrous works, and for his profound Grace in forgiving our profound sins against Him & His character.

If He is the Judge, Lawgiver & King  (in order to be our Savior, he MUST be: Isaiah 33:22), then we have much to answer for in this sinful & adulterous generation.

I don't blame CoyoteJoe for not seeing church or the gospel as relevant; it's actually a natural reaction to a 'cost-less, salt-less, challenge-less gospel'.

The pablum that is served up (I trust the manly preachers here are NOT of this wimpy variety; right ?) in many churches is as likely to wake us slumbering congregants from our slumber as a bucket of warm spit......   

What we really need is freezing cold water to shock us into this reality: 

The reason our God-given Rights are under attack, is: Professed Christians  haven't honored Jesus Christ with all of our strength - I mean we've given him lip service, but haven't truly honored Him as Judge Lawgiver, King & thus our Savior.

And then we wonder why the State is rising up as (faux) savior state; why it's acting as God & mediator; why is this a surprise ?

Do not the Scriptures and History, both, testify that if we fail to Honor Him & learn the lessons of History, a cruel master will be appointed over us ?

William Penn wrote prophetically:  "Men must either be governed by God; or they are cursed to be ruled by Tyrants."

OK, "Fire & Gunpowder" sermon over.  Thanks for listening & considering.  Veritas ?

E Texas Minuteman   

[williamlayton]

Well---don't ask, don't tell has worked for me for over 40 years.
As far as salvation is concerned, fire and brimstone sermons may not work any better than any other.
The plain facts are that some will not and some will.
Blessings

[FourBee]

   

Posted by: williamlayton :   As far as salvation is concerned, fire and brimstone sermons may not work

 williamlayton ; that is so VERY true.  I'd like to add that bible prophesies prove that Almighty God's holy word for the last days will come to pass.  It is only fair that each and every one of us , young and old alike, should hear of his warning.

[E Texas Minuteman]

   

Posted by: williamlayton :   As far as salvation is concerned, fire and brimstone sermons may not work

 williamlayton ; that is so VERY true.  I'd like to add that bible prophesies prove that Almighty God's holy word for the last days will come to pass.  It is only fair that each and every one of us , young and old alike, should hear of his warning.

William, not sure what you mean by this.....not trying to argue, can you clarify ?

God bless you all,    E Texas Minuteman   

Psalm 2; Matthew 28:18-20, John 3:16-17

[Dee]

Most chuches today are "seeker friendly" - which is to say they flatter our sinful nature.  

They don't describe the glory of the LORD for all his wondrous works, and for his profound Grace in forgiving our profound sins against Him & His character.

If He is the Judge, Lawgiver & King  (in order to be our Savior, he MUST be: Isaiah 33:22), then we have much to answer for in this sinful & adulterous generation.

I don't blame CoyoteJoe for not seeing church or the gospel as relevant; it's actually a natural reaction to a 'cost-less, salt-less, challenge-less gospel'.

The pablum that is served up (I trust the manly preachers here are NOT of this wimpy variety; right ?) in many churches is as likely to wake us slumbering congregants from our slumber as a bucket of warm spit......  

What we really need is freezing cold water to shock us into this reality:  

The reason our God-given Rights are under attack, is: Professed Christians  haven't honored Jesus Christ with all of our strength - I mean we've given him lip service, but haven't truly honored Him as Judge Lawgiver, King & thus our Savior.

And then we wonder why the State is rising up as (faux) savior state; why it's acting as God & mediator; why is this a surprise ?

Do not the Scriptures and History, both, testify that if we fail to Honor Him & learn the lessons of History, a cruel master will be appointed over us ?

William Penn wrote prophetically:  "Men must either be governed by God; or they are cursed to be ruled by Tyrants."

OK, "Fire & Gunpowder" sermon over.  Thanks for listening & considering.  Veritas ?

E Texas Minuteman  

[/color]

AND ALL GOD'S CHILDREN SAID AMEN.

AS THE OLD SAYING STATES: WHEN SECONDS COUNT, THE POLICE ARE ONLY MINUTES AWAY. HAVE YOU GOT TIME TO WAIT?

[williamlayton]

What I am saying is that you can't scare hell out of folks.
Christ message is one of faith not the law, as a means of salvation.
The law should be taught and the Holy Spirit will move on those who are His to mold and correct--but our salvation is not based on our perfection but on Christ. His Holiness is imputed, as a gift, to those who come to him in faith.
Fire and brimstone may scare one but it is the drawing of the Holy Spirit and giving the faith to believe that Christ is who He says He is---God, which leads too salvation..
It is a mixture of love and warnings, cajoling and urging which helps the faithful grow.
Fire and brimstone as a steady diet is not teaching the full council of the scriptures.
Blessings

[teamnelson]

As one of my Systematic Theology students put it (very smart 14 year old by the way) some folks want God to be like Subway. Some want them to save them from the fire and brimstone of hell ... but not have any say in their life right now. Some want Him to give them their best life now, but find discussions about sin and hell to be irrelevant. Even those who want to deny Him want Him to be as capricious, or disinterested as they claim. Everyone wants Him just they way they want Him ... which means He's not really God any more is He? We are, and that's the way most folks want it.

The preacher's job is the ministry of the word and prayer, that the people would glorify God as He sits on His throne exactly the way He wants it. Course the churches might be smaller, and we can't have that now can we.

To the OP, perhaps if preachers were doing what they were supposed to, it would not be necessary to carry in church. But neither would it be forbidden.

[williamlayton]

ME-ism is common amongst the children of the milk.
When the full council of the scriptures is taught, and folks start growing and getting off the milk and into meat is when the Holy Spirit takes control,
Many in church die a child. Many in church are not even children.
Social churches tend too be large as folks can hide and no demands for growth are required---just attendance and money.
Saying that--there is no judgement of who is a child of God and who isn't.
Blessings

[ironglow]

Incidents such as are happening in public places including churches, have convinced this very seldom carry guy to consider doing so. With the Muslim extremists and the "hate Christians" propaganda being spread by many groups, things are likely to get worse before they get better.
    The 2 have churches I attended over the last 35 years had no trouble with guns per se. In the first one, the young pastor borrowed my Ruger .357 and fired a blank during the message. In the one I presently am a member of for the last ten years..about 3 months ago our pastor illustrated his message with his 6" S&W .38..after calling upon me to demonstrate that the gun was indeed unloaded.
   Don't know if it is legal or not in NY...after all, the cities are very deep blue, while outside the cities it is a very crimson red..but the city dudes outnumber us; so it could be illegal !
       ..But better tried by twelve than carried by six ..and obviously the twelve trying me would be from my county, and they are almost all "bitter clingers".. .


      It is a wonderful thing that somebody was "minding the store" that day in Colorado;

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nujt4QPN61U

[williamlayton]

I have been carrying for 40+ years and have never had too draw a weapon.
What does that mean--in the law of averages--nothing. Everyday is a new day and events unfold during that day without refrence too the past---and the past does not set the odds for this day.
You do it your way--I go dragging my pants down.
Blessings