Author Topic: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.  (Read 1801 times)

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Offline nw_hunter

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2010, 06:22:44 PM »

Yes, you may belong to the NRA or Gun Owners of America, or the
California Rifle and Pistol Association, but so what? Do you think
that absolves you from taking personal responsibility for what
happens? YOU are responsible for protecting your rights. No one else
can do it for you.
************************************************************



There are a lot of people here that are active in one way or another in working to safeguard our rights! Some of us don't go around tooting our own horn about it!
Calling out an Organization that pretends to be for the 2nd amendment, and compromises our rights away, is one way of protecting our gun rights. They need to be exposed for what they are, and some of us have the guts to do just that!

This old crap about ..........If not for the NRA, we would be hunting with a sling shot, and protecting our homes with ball bats is just that! (CRAP) Sure the NRA is BIG, and there are thousands of good people that are members . Problem is! the good members don't run the show. Wayne L, and those in it for the money, Liberal , power hungry bunch at the top do, and they are NO friend of yours! If you want to believe they do.....Then by all means send them the 35.00 or what ever it is now, and when you get your tax return this year, Kick in a few hundred to really help out and feel good. ;)

Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2010, 07:09:46 PM »
Whining? I have some advice for you redhawk. Don't try to bully me. That is what democrats and idiots do when they have no other argument. If you don't like my complaints about the NRA you are free to ignore me or present an argument to convince me I am wrong. All you did was tell me to shut up and keep paying or get out. You can pay my dues for me next time they come due.
I've come to feel the same way.  His attitude merely reinforces my negative opinion of the NRA.  That he keeps saying the same thing, and even resorts to Wayne's World dialogue ("not") makes me wonder about the clarity of thought permeating NRA apologists and blind faith followers.  His argument and presentation would undoubtedly be better suited had he posted once and let that stand as his position.  Personal attacks and denigration of others will not win those he seeks to convince.  I can't imagine it impresses anyone.

There was no personal attack, quit trying to create a problem that is not there.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2010, 07:14:59 PM »
Whining? I have some advice for you redhawk. Don't try to bully me. That is what democrats and idiots do when they have no other argument. If you don't like my complaints about the NRA you are free to ignore me or present an argument to convince me I am wrong. All you did was tell me to shut up and keep paying or get out. You can pay my dues for me next time they come due.


That is all you will get from that Bird! I think to try and educate people like him is a waste of time.
Prob. have more success teaching a mountain gorilla to play the William Tell Overture on a baby grand.

I guess I could say the same thing to you, and it would fit just fine.
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2010, 07:31:04 PM »
Whining? I have some advice for you redhawk. Don't try to bully me. That is what democrats and idiots do when they have no other argument. If you don't like my complaints about the NRA you are free to ignore me or present an argument to convince me I am wrong. All you did was tell me to shut up and keep paying or get out. You can pay my dues for me next time they come due.

Didn't try to bully you, as for an argument, I presented several. I guess you just don't agree with what I said. As I don't agree with what you say.

I never told you to shut up and keep paying or get out, I said quit winning, big difference.

Why would I pay your dues?  I pay my own way and I donate as well.

I have presented facts, and the same guys on this site bash the NRA every chance they get. I feel as if I am dealing with the Liberal crowd at Legislative mall, they don't get it either.  ::)

If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2010, 07:37:36 PM »
NRA, GOA, JPFO, CRPA, etc.  support whichever you can, as you can.   I've been a member of all the above.  And gotten ticked off about something and let my membership lapse. Then join again.  BUT...it don't matter a damn if we don't actually do our parts.  Here is a rant I wrote a few years back.  I got ticked at the guys in the gun shops and at the range.  Not sure if the numbers at the end are still good, but you get the idea.

GET OFF YOUR COMPLACENCY AND DO YOUR PART!

In California there are at least 6,000,000 firearms owners, yet we
have some of the most draconian and Byzantine firearms laws in the
country. Why? Because too many of us are content to sit and complain
but are unwilling to take half an hour a week to do anything about it.

Most of us would rather stand around at the range or in a gun shop
and spend a couple of hours debating the merits of .300 Magnum over
the latest .270 super short ultra mag. Can you find five minutes a
day to support your civil rights? That is all it takes. If you can't
give that little amount of time, you deserve to have your guns
legislated away from you.

Imagine if in your assembly district EVERY
gun owner called his or her assembly member once a week to complain
about restrictive firearms legislation. Say there are only 15,000 gun
owners in your district (with 80 districts that comes to 1.2 million,
a far cry from all the legal gun owners in the state) and each one
makes a call once a week which takes 3 minutes of staff time. It
would take 750 man-hours per WEEK just to listen to gun owners
complain about restrictive gun laws. That would mean that every
member of the Assembly would need almost 19 full time staff members to
do nothing but pay attention to our calls. Think they might hear us?
After all, politicians are concerned with numbers.

There are five calls you need to make each week – to one assembly
member, one state senator, one member of the House of Representatives,
and two members of the US Senate. That is what it will take, each of
us calling once a week to make our views known.

Yes, you may belong to the NRA or Gun Owners of America, or the
California Rifle and Pistol Association, but so what? Do you think
that absolves you from taking personal responsibility for what
happens? YOU are responsible for protecting your rights. No one else
can do it for you.


US SENATE
Barbara Boxer, (415) 403-0100, web site – www.senate.gov/~boxer
Dianne Feinstein, (415) 393-0707, web site – www.senate.gov/~feinstein

Go to www.ca.gov and
you can easily find your state representatives. There are also links
there for your federal representatives.


Feel free to copy this, modify it to suit your situation, use it, distribute it.


I agree 100%.. People want to sit back and let others do the work for them. Look at Congress, they were sent to represent us, what a crappy job they are doing, and still the people sit there and watch it.

I feel good that I am out there fighting for MY rights myself.
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

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Offline myronman3

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2010, 03:34:03 AM »
i dont buy into the arguement of "it's the only option".  baloney.   it is a corrupt org period.   they actuallly endorsed the now congressman (liberal bastard)  ron kind when he was running against a progun guy.   keep wasting your money for all i care.  

  i choose to take a different route, and that is teaching none shooters about guns, taking them out and turning potential anti's into pro gunners.    i also teach each and every one of these people what a sham the nra is and advise against them ever joining them.  

  the pro nra guys remind me of the global warming crowd: facts and evidence is dismissed as hooey if it doesnt support their position.  or, they will use the same old tactics and mistruths to bend everything to their point of view.   it is a religon to some, and you cant change people's religon.   la pierre is laughing all the way to the bank even after all these years.   some people are definately followers and once you get something into their heads, they will follow faithfully and damned be ye who see it otherwise.   :D

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2010, 04:18:26 AM »
myronman3 ,thank you for what you do getting people involved in shooting and guns. I don't agree with you about the NRA and here is why. I never said the NRA was perfect, I also never said I liked everything they do. But I use the NRA as a tool in getting information to pass on to my 2nd Amendment committee so we can go after our Legislators. You have to admit, the NRA is very good at getting information we can use. They also get things accomplished that would other wise be detrimental to our 2nd Amendment.

Not only am I a founder and board member of our local 9-12 group, but I am the chairman of the 2nd Amendment committee. The information I receive from the Delaware Sportsman Association and the NRA are very useful tools and a wealth of information. We don't rely on the NRA to do all the fighting for our 2nd Amendment right, we put our elected officials to task when we get anti-gun bills and issues purposed. We also get alerts with information that is pro-gun issues, and we contact our elected officials and urge them to vote in favor of them. We also call them to thank them when they do vote for pro-gun bills.

So just like you, I get people involved in shooting, I have our 9-12 group sponsor classes for new shooters at the local range, I coordinate the classes and get people signed up for them. We also have many people that are not gun owners, learning the importance of the 2nd Amendment, and getting them to support it, even though they are not gun owners themselves.

That is the reason I am such a strong supporter of the NRA, they are a tool we use to get information as well as support for local level issues here in Delaware. Sure I care about what goes on in all of the United States, but others have to fight just as hard in there States, and not just rely on pro-gun groups to do the work for them.
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Offline subdjoe

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2010, 08:37:10 AM »
<snip>

GET OFF YOUR COMPLACENCY AND DO YOUR PART!

In California there are at least 6,000,000 firearms owners, yet we
have some of the most draconian and Byzantine firearms laws in the
country. <snip>

I agree 100%.. People want to sit back and let others do the work for them. Look at Congress, they were sent to represent us, what a crappy job they are doing, and still the people sit there and watch it.

I feel good that I am out there fighting for MY rights myself.

Thanks.  I had printed off 1500 copies of my 'gun rant' to put in local gun stores. Two of them said sure.  The third 'didn't have room' for it.  And, months later there were still lots of copies in the boxes.  I talked with people about them.  "Oh, I'm just too busy to keep up on it all" or "i don't want to waste my time calling when we know the Boxer and DiFi are solidly anti-gun."  Well, HELLS BELLS!  If MORE of us decided to 'waste our time' maybe they would change their votes if not their minds!

As I pointed out, if 15,000 of us each week call to express our concerns and manage to take up just 3 minutes of staff time, that comes to 750 man HOURS per week, that would mean it would take about 19 full time staff members each week to deal with nothing but firearms legislation.  I think that might get their attention? 
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline myronman3

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2010, 10:10:50 AM »
 redhawk- honestly, not even 4 days ago i was  thinking about our lively debates back and forth over the years; and i was wondering if you were still around bacause i hadnt seen you in a while.  then this post comes up...lol. 
   hey, if you believe being a member of the nra is doing some good, great.  i am sure you see things on your end that lead you to your opinion/view.   
    i have just seen too many instances personally that have soured me on the nra, and they will get no money or support from me.   i see them as corrupt and not a friend of mine.  others see it differently. 
  it boils down to different strokes for different folks, and we all have to do what we think is right.   

Offline myronman3

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2010, 10:14:12 AM »
i will also add, that out of all the people i have introduced to shooting, i do know that at least one of them joined the nra against my advice.   but hey, i cant look down on someone for making their own decisions so long as they educated themselves before making them.   

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2010, 10:48:42 AM »
myronman3, yes we have had our debates on this issue in the past and probably always will. But yes I have had a lot of good results here in Delaware with the NRA involvement. Also when John Sigler the former President of the NRA was President, we got a lot done here in Delaware because of his position. He still works hard with our local NRA backed groups to aid in getting pro-gun issues passed for us. We even have quit a few Democrats that are very pro-gun and 2nd Amendment, which helps.

Like I said many years ago in our debates, the NRA has its faults and draw backs, no where's near perfect. I would love for the NRA to have a no compromise position on the 2nd Amendment, but I have seen way to many times when they push the all or nothing attitude, we end up with nothing...

I have supported the NRA for close to 30 years now, I will support them until my last breath, that is just the way it is.
I am 100% for the Constitution and all the Amendments, my strongest fight always is for the 2nd Amendment, because if we loose it, all the others will fall as well.

On a side note, some times my posts may come across as over bearing and down right rude, but I am passionate about the 2nd Amendment and don't take it lightly. I also believe I have given a lot of good incite on some of the good the NRA has done.

myronman3, I hope we can keep being civil to one another, it works out better for both of our benefit.

Thanks
Alex
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One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

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Offline beerbelly

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2010, 04:00:59 AM »
I am certain that if it were not for the NRA you would not be allowed to own a gun right now!!! The anti-gun folks would have took them way back in the 60s.
  Are they perfect? NO! But then who or what is? If we let the anti-gun folks pit us one against the other we lose! They hate the NRA with a passion. and with good cause.
                                Beerbelly

Offline powderman

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2010, 07:49:16 AM »
I am certain that if it were not for the NRA you would not be allowed to own a gun right now!!! The anti-gun folks would have took them way back in the 60s.
  Are they perfect? NO! But then who or what is? If we let the anti-gun folks pit us one against the other we lose! They hate the NRA with a passion. and with good cause.
                                Beerbelly

BEERBELLY. You are exactly right. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
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Offline jimster

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2010, 08:12:26 AM »
I do not believe they would have taken our guns at any time in history if the NRA was non existent back in the 60's or any other time...because we personally would not have let that happen, and they know it.
They can't even disarm criminals, let alone millions of gun owners. They know that, they also know that even if a very small number of people would resist, their resources run out very fast.  2 Million people a year have the courage to defend themselves against criminals, so there is 2 million right there without even looking that would defend, that is more than the feds can handle right there and there are not that many solders deployed in the war.  The NRA was a good organization years ago, they been around a long time, and have done many good things.  But they are different now, which is all I will say, I have complained about them before, so I won't do that again, but I have the right to complain because I pumped so much money into them for so many years. Not any more for me, my own choice.  If they change to what I want, I will join again maybe.  For now, I do not trust them to keep my rights at all, that is my job now.

I do think we need to stay active all the time in whatever organizaton we choose, and also alone with no organization, a few phone calls a month is more than possible. 

Offline beerbelly

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2010, 09:43:49 AM »
jimster, it is not if ,but when they take away the right of the people to have guns! It will happen! I has already happened in most of the western world.  At my age I probably will not live to see it but you just might, I hate to tell you this but when they pass the law and tell people to turn in their guns by such and such a date , 98% will comply!!!
   A few won't and those they will kill!!!
                             Beerbelly

Offline ms

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2010, 09:59:36 AM »
jimster, it is not if ,but when they take away the right of the people to have guns! It will happen! I has already happened in most of the western world.  At my age I probably will not live to see it but you just might, I hate to tell you this but when they pass the law and tell people to turn in their guns by such and such a date , 98% will comply!!!
   A few won't and those they will kill!!!
                             Beerbelly
Yep 98% of the Nra members will give there guns up.

Offline jimster

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2010, 10:07:26 AM »
Maybe so...maybe the 2% left will give them a run for their money too, probably close to the same percentage that fought for our freedom in the first place.

Either way, Wayne from the NRA won't be standing with me, he'll be hangin out with Congressman asking them to not be too hard on us.

I'm 53 now, kids are all grown and gone, I guess I'll be part of the 2%, not much else to do anyway. 

Jim 


Offline southernutah

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2010, 03:46:19 PM »
I stole this from a friend,  thanks BP


Ya see, the problem with being an old phart is that we have been around long enough to know some HISTORY, so when we see BS, we recognize it PDQ. As it happens, I was in the NRA back before the GCA of 1968 was passed and I know what they did BEFORE they had to divert resources to fighting against the abolution of the Second Amendment.

The NRA is the first sponsor of building shooting skills in the American people. Indeed, that is in their original charter and one of the reason it started as a national organization with the appproval and encouragement of the government I might add. Dismayed by the lack of marksmanship shown by their troops, Union veterans Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate formed the National Rifle Association in 1871. The primary goal of the association would be to "promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis," according to a magazine editorial written by Church. They have done that all over America for those who are interested enough to get off their butts and actually ATTEND those classes and shooting matches. You don't see that on the 6 o'clock news, so many of you don't know it is even going on. It's out-of-sight, so it is out-of-mind. You don't know about the NRA sponsored Civilain Marksmanship Programs and that Teddy Kennedy got the money to fund it cut off and that NRA had to do it alone and are doing it alone without help from these "OTHER" so called gun rights organizations.

If the McDonald case is successful in the court, there will still be THE SAME PROBLEM that we have today in Washington D.C after the Heller decision. You STILL CAN'T own a pistol there despite what the Supreme Court has rulled.

So the powers at be at NRA have lifetime job security because the left will NEVER give up its fight to remove all privately owned firearms from American citizens and they DON'T CARE what the Supreme Court has rulled on that subject or what it will rule on it.

If we ever do get to a place where that becomes settled, then the NRA can go back to doing what it was so successfully doing BEFORE it had to start fighting against the liberals who want to destroy the Second Amendment. You know, all those things I KNOW THEY DID BECAUSE I WAS THERE so this bull****is not going to fly with me.

But you have to wonder what all of these camp followers and also rans who constantly attack the NRA while riding on their coat tails are going to do then because we know what they have done besides attack the NRA and that is absolutely nothing. The first date to be found referencing the JFPO is 1989. According to the old math, that was 118 years AFTER the NRA had been doing its job. That was 21 years AFTER the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Kinda makes ya wonder where they were and what they were doing during all of that time doan it?

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2010, 06:34:35 AM »

But you have to wonder what all of these camp followers and also rans who constantly attack the NRA while riding on their coat tails are going to do then because we know what they have done besides attack the NRA and that is absolutely nothing. The first date to be found referencing the JFPO is 1989. According to the old math, that was 118 years AFTER the NRA had been doing its job. That was 21 years AFTER the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Kinda makes ya wonder where they were and what they were doing during all of that time doan it?
[/quote]



What your missing here is........Most of us so called (Camp followers) are former NRA members, or some still are, but we have seen where they are going at the NRA and are not going along with it anymore.As to us doing nothing.....This statement is just pure BS on your part.You don't have a clue what we are doing.
One of the things we are doing, is trying to enlighten members of the wrong actions the NRA is taking.

The NRA is like the Republican party. Full of BS, and it's apparent some of it's members are too. The NRA, like the Republican party has a great platform. It's a damn shame they don't follow it anymore.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2010, 10:06:01 AM »
nw_hunter, you need to do some research on the NRA and why it was started. It has taken on a bigger role than what it was intended for, because people refused to stand up for themselves.

You are so busy point out the flaws of the NRA, but you offer no good points. The NRA has done a lot of good for gun owners. Why not tell people about them? If you want to give both sides of the story, then at least let other make the decision. Remember when you point fingers at others, you have 3 pointing back at you!

If indeed the GOA or other pro-gun group is such a good thing, why have not the 4 Million NRA members jumped over to the GOA?  4 Million members can't all be wrong.
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Offline nw_hunter

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2010, 02:07:35 PM »
nw_hunter, you need to do some research on the NRA and why it was started. It has taken on a bigger role than what it was intended for, because people refused to stand up for themselves.

You are so busy point out the flaws of the NRA, but you offer no good points. The NRA has done a lot of good for gun owners. Why not tell people about them? If you want to give both sides of the story, then at least let other make the decision. Remember when you point fingers at others, you have 3 pointing back at you!

If indeed the GOA or other pro-gun group is such a good thing, why have not the 4 Million NRA members jumped over to the GOA?  4 Million members can't all be wrong.


Sheeple! That's why.It's not about the NRA vs GOA or some other gun group. It's about right vs wrong!

There have been people jumping ship to join other pro second A. gun org's.Some have , like me quit them and joined others, and some have stayed and joined others as well.

I am simply stating facts about the NRA........"Nothing more"
If you choose to ignore the facts, then by all means do so.I chose the truth! I don't need to belong to the feel good crowd.



Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2010, 04:48:50 AM »
Yes there have been people that quit the NRA, it happens all the time. I call them ship jumpers. But when the going is good they jump right back on the boat. It is the people that truly believe in the good, and hang in there in the good and bad times that I want to align myself with. Also I don't just depend on the NRA to do my fighting for my 2nd Amendment rights, I do it on my own. To me the NRA is a tool I used to aid me in fighting the Legislators. The only people that have come here in Delaware to fight anti-gun Legislation has been the NRA, never seen the GOA or any other group come here for our fight, NEVER.

nw_hunter, no use to discuss this with you. You can't even come up with good reasons to quit the NRA, and you offer no real "truth" as you put it.
I don't have time for people that are ship jumpers. So as far as I am concerned, you and I have NOTHING further to discuss!
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
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Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

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Offline southernutah

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2010, 08:40:34 AM »
Yes there have been people that quit the NRA, it happens all the time. I call them ship jumpers. But when the going is good they jump right back on the boat. It is the people that truly believe in the good, and hang in there in the good and bad times that I want to align myself with. Also I don't just depend on the NRA to do my fighting for my 2nd Amendment rights, I do it on my own. To me the NRA is a tool I used to aid me in fighting the Legislators. The only people that have come here in Delaware to fight anti-gun Legislation has been the NRA, never seen the GOA or any other group come here for our fight, NEVER.

nw_hunter, no use to discuss this with you. You can't even come up with good reasons to quit the NRA, and you offer no real "truth" as you put it.
I don't have time for people that are ship jumpers. So as far as I am concerned, you and I have NOTHING further to discuss!

+1here

Still waiting for the facts as to why I shouldn't be in the NRA, it is pretty plain to see they are against a few people and forget about the big picture. It's a political numbers game ,if you don't have the numbers you don't get a voice. 4 million is a better number than any other organization. You don't see any politicians that will take on the NRA. 
It is a cheap insurance investment in the right to keep and bear arms. About the price of a dinner at a desent restarant. 

Offline 243shooter

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Re: The NRA Horns in on Supreme Court Gun Case and Hires Attorney.
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2010, 10:01:48 AM »
i respect people that have principles and stick with them, but this "lesser of two evils" arguement doesn't make sense to me. if there is a republican canidate and you agree with him 80% but you vote for a third party that you agree with 100% and then the democrat that you agree with 0% ends up winning, wouldn't you have been better off with the 80% guy. the NRA ain't perfect, but in my opinion we stand a better chance if we stick together.
maybe each of us should all join a group of ten or twelve guys that thinks EXACTLY like each of us. then each tiny group can find their own political canidates that have the exact same ideas as the group. then we can all sit around and bicker about trivial B.S. and while we're not paying attention the librals can take over. ::)
the NRA ain't perfect, but there is power in numbers and we need to stand together.
I'm just a bitter Christian clinging to my gun.