Author Topic: 45ACP break-in (Read 1512 times)

Shamus · « **on:** November 07, 2003, 03:51:31 PM »

I tried a search and come up empty. How many rounds do I need to run through my SA 1911 before it's broke in?
I've got about 250 rounds throught it now and have been shooting S&B round nose only. So far no problems but eventually I'd like to try some different ammo.

williamlayton · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2003, 01:21:22 AM »

when i researched the 1911 the feeling i got was about 500 rounds. many said they shot different types of bullets during this period. we really don't know and to be honest i am not convinced, based on the post i read, that there is a science to it.
the only feeling i was left with was that you had to shoot it enough, with different bullets, to find the weakness' and repair or tweak the gun to accept or do what you wanted on a reliable basis.
there seems, to me at least, to be a period of time needed to refine your weapon. almost customize it as each weapon is different or each weapon has its own personality. certainly the different manuf. products had their own strenghts and weakness'. most folks seemed to enjoy this process and were willing to do it.
blessings

Shamus · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2003, 03:35:40 AM »

williamlayton
I have the "Loaded" version, meaning its already got everything on it. Tweaking is really limited to trigger work and it needs very little of that.
Beyond function I'm probably going to replace the sights as the Novak's that came with it are just to hard for these older eyes to see. :cry:

Thanks for the reply.

williamlayton · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2003, 06:16:07 AM »

go to the 1911 board and read there. according to many there and here there is tweaking in a number of areas requiered.
i also had some post, just recently, when i was researching the possible purchase of a 1911. came within a hairs breath of a dan wesson patriot-which is a loaded out gun.
my needs are possible different than yours. i wanted a weapon to stay in my truck. i am in need of a weapon that i could retrieve and, at least have confidence, that it would perform flawlessly. as much as i wanted one, and i probable will get one eventually, i decided that it was not the weapon that met my criteria. you will find those which differ in my thoughts and openions, i'm just expressing my thinking.
the main concern of mine was/is that i am not a person who enjoys working on weapons. it really did concern me the amount of work those folks put into a weapon to get it to perform reliable.
check out my post on this forum-there will be pro and con thoughts. go back thru the history of this forum, that is, the 1911 forum here and read all articles/post. go to the 1911 forum- read everthing on all post over there. you probably are more profecient and capable in the smithing area than i am.
heck i just made a decision for me and that is how i came to that decision. check it out and make your own decision, who says i got to be right-not me.
blessings

dclark · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2003, 06:36:37 AM »

Shamus,

"Break in" is a very subjective term, at best. I take it to be a period of you getting used to pistol and insuring that the pistol functions properly with the loads that you intend to use. I have several 1911 from several makers that have properly functioned from the first rounds through them. I have seen, also, several 1911's that were set up for specific loads, or improperly (in my opinion) and were not reliable after several thousand rounds.

My opinion is that for any 1911 in my collection, reliability is my primary concern. You can't win a gunfight (or a competition) if you can't shoot the gun. I demand that my 1911's shoot a cast 200 cast bullet (LSWC) with absolute reliability. Jacketed bullets will then generally shoot without question. There are a number of factors to review if that does not happen, even with the first rounds.

I start by stripping the pistol completely and insuring that there are no burrs or loose particles floating around to wear the other pieces. I then re-assemble the pistol and properly lube it with grease as I go. I then work the action to check how it feels as the action functions and to insure that the grease is distributed. You can feel "dry" spots with experience by going slowly. Then I shoot a "target" load with cast bullets and see if there are any problems. Within 20 rounds (3 magazines) I can generally tell if there are any areas of concern. Be sure, by the way, to clean the magazines also. I use McCormick magazines by choice, but have a number of other brands that function. If there is a malfunction I immediately suspect a magazine and change it, especially if it the one that came with the pistol.

After shooting it, I then re-strip the pistol and relube it as I reassemble it. This procedure works for me, and I hope helps you.

dclark

Iowegan · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2003, 07:29:51 AM »

Don't fix what ain't broke! If your pistol functions well after 250 rounds, its probably going to work well in the future. The S&B ammo is pretty cheap stuff so if it works well with those, it will probably work well with quality ammo.

Tweaking springs, grinding, shaping, etc; are a good way to get in trouble. If you do have problems, take it to a gunsmith.

Questor · « **Reply #6 on:** November 10, 2003, 02:58:08 AM »

There is no break-in period. If it doesn't shoot right with commonly available ammo of a type for which it was designed, send it back for repairs.

Shamus · « **Reply #7 on:** November 10, 2003, 03:39:03 AM »

Gentlemen,
Excellent information and I thank you.
The pistol functions fine, but I'm wondering what "Target" ammo I might try next. I stuck with the S&B because I understood it would feed well and for breakin would be a good choice. Today, after 500 trouble-free rounds I am looking for a better ammo.
I'll be shooting mostly targets at the pistol range and would like recommendations on what to try.
As an after thought, I come from Rimfire Benchrest shooting and the ammo choices are huge. Is there a big difference in ammo accuracy between manufacturers in .45ACP ?

Thanks in advance,
Shamus

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** November 10, 2003, 04:08:08 AM »

Shamus: your 45 should be pretty well broken in. 250 is a good start, 500 is better. If you haven't had any problems, you shouldn't in the future when using ball ammo.

The S&B ammo is fine stuff. It is loaded close to original military specs and works all my 45s without a hitch. It is my main brand of factory 45 ammo and groups in 2" at 25 yds from an Ed Brown drop-in accuracy bbl out of a Springfield Gov't Model. It is loaded to the right specs and that is what I carry. I don't have a need for holler-points or soft noses, and the only way I can think of improving on the performace of the S&B ball is to get some of those 230 gn cast round nose flat point (very wide flat point at that) slugs for the 45 Shofield (? sp), reload them in the S&B cases and see if they function the gun without hang-up. The metplat on those things looks like something you might find on a 44 caliber Keith style SWC. Now, if I can only find out who makes them........ HTH. Mikey.

williamlayton · « **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2003, 02:08:06 PM »

listen to what mikey sez--he has way more experience in this area than i. what i did was probable due to knowing my own limitations.
blessings

dclark · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2003, 04:38:06 AM »

For target ammo, you can find Federal Premium, or you can load your own. Most of the target shooters are handloading, and generally with a progressive press. The specific load will vary, depending upon the "game" you are playing. Bullseye shooters will develop a load for their pistol, perhaps at each 25 yards and 50 yards. IPSC shooters generally have a single load, as do NRA Action Pistol shooters. I use a standard load of a 200 gr. Lead Semi-Wadcutter (LSWC) bullet, 3.9 gr. Bullseye powder and a CCI #300 primer for about 750 fps. It will shoot groups of 1 1/2" at 25 yards in my Les Baer bullseye pistol. It will also function all of my other .45's, even with 18# springs. The bullet is hard enough to slide over a factory feed ramp, but I general polish the ramps to insure function. I load these by the thousands on a Dillon 1050 and my boys and I shoot them about as fast in local leagues and tournaments. Bullets, powder and primers are easy to get locally.

Hope this helps.

dclark

1911crazy · « **Reply #11 on:** November 11, 2003, 09:13:15 AM »

I hope you used "moly" lube in all the working parts first before firing?? It will cut down on all friction/wear/galling the gun will never wearout put it on trigger and the barrel bushing and slides too!! They even make it for the bores now too!!! It will be less breakin time. BigBill

Shamus · « **Reply #12 on:** November 11, 2003, 12:34:55 PM »

BigBill
I've been a fan of MollyFusion for quite some time now. However I've learned that if you want to break-in a barrel ya got to keep it out of there until you have some rounds throught it. On my new 17HMR and 22LR I ran about 400-500 rounds before applying the Molly. It makes cleaning a breeze. Well, actually it almost makes cleaning unnecessary.

williamlayton · « **Reply #13 on:** November 11, 2003, 01:20:57 PM »

yes ts makes they mos-2 oil and paste. they make amp-o oil and paste. amp-o is for the barrel and external parts, cause the mos-2 is pretty hard to clean up. the amp-o is excellent, according to ben over at ts, for long term storage and collectables. it has more rust and corrosion protection than the mos-2. i just got my sig 220 today and cleaned it up with a solvent-coated it down withamp-o to break it in-will switch to the mos2 after the first firing tomorrow.
blessings

1911crazy · « **Reply #14 on:** November 12, 2003, 12:31:50 PM »

Quote from: Shamus

BigBill
I've been a fan of MollyFusion for quite some time now. However I've learned that if you want to break-in a barrel ya got to keep it out of there until you have some rounds throught it. On my new 17HMR and 22LR I ran about 400-500 rounds before applying the Molly. It makes cleaning a breeze. Well, actually it almost makes cleaning unnecessary.

I'm not sure what method they use now but they were broaching barrels and they left burrs in the rifling this is why it takes a few rounds to remove the burrs this is when the accuracy/speed(velocity) gets better. In my '06 years ago I had a very hard time when it was new with using remington ammo, it took two boxes of military FMJ and reloading to make it accurate. I was so upset with it I ran FMJ thru it to smooth out the bore. Then reloaded for it and brought the 5 shot groups in the diameter of a quarter @ 100yds and after almost 30 years it still shoots the same groups. Moly is great stuff and I'm sure it would impede the barrel break in time your right. Its funny how some guns shoot great when new and some don't with factory ammo. My remington in 338win mag didn't like remington ammo either it shoots the best with winchester ammo. But my 444 marlin shoots great with remington ammo?? I really think its the bore diameter or jacket thickness?? Something influences this and i'm sure its not rifles only it has to be in handguns too ever notice this? Some bought ammo shoots more accurate than others? Now with using moly another key thing is that it doesn't attract dirt nor does dirt stick to it this is why your barrels are cleaner too plus everything just slides out even the powder residue and there is less friction!!! Sorry for talking about rifles but I was wondering if you guys with more handgun experience notice it and can relate to it too? I shot handguns but never tested ammo like i did with rifles mainly because I hit the targets at 25 yds(45acp/38spec.) and 100 yds(357mag/44mag) with them I never got too serious about accuracy I was happy to hit a 10" circle with a 44mag at 100yds. the 357mag i was ringing small rocks at 100yds. I'll have to get into handgun shooting more now that I have the time. BigBill

I'm not sure how many rush to the range shoot rifles then rush to shoot handguns all in the same day it seems we just never have the time? Right now I just shoot rifles during the week because the range is too crowded on weekends plus they charge more on weekends too. I'm sure I'm not alone I guess its time to join a gun club? We did have a free range but the trailer trucks were getting shot at as they went by it so it closed.

Tankmurdock · « **Reply #15 on:** November 16, 2003, 03:37:36 AM »

I bought a $1800 Les Baer 45. Every mag it jammed at least once.
I got a lot of experience clearing every type of jam. Called Les Baer
cleaned gun and lubed with Breakfree CLP (the only lube they recommend). After 500 rounds it got better but still jammed. They said each gun is different. Their tolerances are so tight the metal sufaces have to wear in. I sold it and the guy is happy with it after another 500 rounds it works....
If your 45 has tight tolerances (front bushing takes 5 min to get on bbl)
then breakin takes longer. Buy a case of 45's and have fun.

Take a look at the RBCD Performance 45's they are like firing Roket propelled Grenades!!!

Tank

techshooter · « **Reply #16 on:** February 02, 2004, 07:23:45 PM »

Shamus: Thanks for sharing what Moly-Fusion is doing for you. :-)
All: As an incident in use by a moderator of http://www.CZForum.com you can check there in the feedback section as to what the results of it can be expected in the action, slide and rail, and barrel.

At rimfirecentral.com forum, it has worked well, amongst other places in the .17HMR, which is an aggressive round for rimfire.

BigBill: Moly-Fusion is not Moly-Disulphide, but Fusion of the ingredients with the chemistry of the metal, including (of the ingredients) "Molybdenum" metal. The kits consist of paste (the absolute pure ingredient) and Treatment-Oil, 15% of the pure. No MOS2: Moly=Molybdenum only. Other old technology is from the "dark ages" (powder and/or goop + oil +/or solvent) Moly-Fusion reacts with metal creating a new surface area with metal.

The technology reacts with the metal surfaces and does not come off with cleaning, which makes it a cinch to give it a test as to its performance.

at http://www.rimfirecentral.com in the .17 caliber forum, redtip17 (Bill) stated that after 3000 rounds of .17HMR and no cleaning, he soaked the bore in ammonial copper solvent overnight, and there was not a tinge of green to patch out: 100% reduction of copper in this little "hot" rimfire.

Friction is eliminated on metal to metal at high pressure, and it was noted that it is desirable to install a heavier spring to avoid "battering" just as if you had gone up to a hotter load without increasing the spring strength: no friction = lighting fast push and less wear to the slide. You'll see that at the czforum.com reference of a study by a moderator of that forum as detailed above.

It is not just for guns, and is available for commercial use, so if I can help anyone, I will be glad to do so.

A .45 caliber gun barrel treatment is important, as it can eliminate that first round flyer, which is certainly a convenience. Handguns can benefit from improving metal at its "root" or core nature, so to speak.

The treatment oil at 15% is priced competitively because at 15% if you only pay for it and not the rest, its price becomes $5.95 for a one ounce bottle, for example (1/8 ounce of Moly-Fusion).

Well, that's my story, but others at other forums back up the issue. (e.g at http://thefiringline.com / Hogans Alley area - before it closed, thread still there.)

MolyFusion: http://shootersolutions.com/molyfusion1.html. An old site I try to keep up-to-date, but some good descriptions there.

I'm trying to help. I just wanted to clarify the results as noted. I hope there ends up more feedback as greater numbers "give it a whirl", and I am available for support as well as technical ideas. What I say is not important: only "the pudding."
Jonathan Doege

:blaster: