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Offline shotgunhntr

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12 ga dilemma
« on: February 16, 2010, 07:34:38 PM »
I have a 12 ga turkey gun on it's way to me.  I bought it because I misread the ad and thought it was pre drilled and tapped for optics.  I didn't realize it was just the 10 ga.  I know I can get something silver soldered on to hold a scope, but was also thinking of just adding some fiber optic sights.

I understand it is ok to drill and tap the 20 ga single shot.  I looked at just ordering a 2nd barrel from H&R, but it's $75, $25 for labor and $25 for shipping to me in AK.  At that price, I can just buy a new 20 ga.

For those in the know, what do you think.  I know the 20 ga can ge set up to be a turkey buster and will recoil less than the 12, but is the 12 ga recoil really that bad and is the silver soldered rail really a decent option?
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Offline JamesIII

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2010, 12:04:33 AM »
The open sites on my 12 ga. Tracker I are silver soldered, glued or something onto the barrel and they seem to hold up just fine. A scope base would be a different story, though I have heard of people drilling and tapping 12's. I would be very reluctant to do it myself.
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Offline jlwilliams

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 12:35:51 AM »
  There is nothing wrong with silver solder.
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Offline Spanky

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 02:35:02 AM »
The silver solder will hold up alot longer than your shoulder will. :D



Spanky
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 02:59:01 AM »
They have turkeys in Alaska?

I have a factory 12 gauge slug wiith the scope rail glued or soldered on. Sloppy job. Glue or solder into the breech. Barrel locks up good on an SB1. Small gap at the top, maybe due to the glue or solder. Thus I haven't shot it, due to safety conerns.
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Offline spikehorn

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 09:39:58 AM »
I bought a Tracker II 12ga bbl from MSPRET That has a scope rail on it. If I understood him correctly he said they D&T one screw hole epoxy the rail to the bbl and put the one screw in with lock tight.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 09:55:31 AM »
That's what I've do if I wanted a scope rail on a thin wall chambered 12ga barrel, drill and tap it for one 8-40 or maybe even 10-32 screw to act as a recoil lug, then epoxy it to the barrel after proper prep or just silver solder it on, either way, good prep of both surfaces is essential for a good bond.  ;) Some members has have good luck using BlackMax Loctite 380 to attach sights.

Tim
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Offline PowPow

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 10:23:12 AM »
I used stock bedding compound to attach an NEF scope rail to my 12 ga barrel (because the bedding compound was already on the shelf and I did not want to buy a steel rail and silver solder equipment).
Blobbed it on the bottom of the rail to get a lot of surface contact. (wiped the excess off.)
Clamped the rail and barrel together.
Made sure the rail was 12:00 up and down.
The left/right alignment fell into place because of the contour of the barrel and the rail.
Fought the urge to mess with it for 24 hours.
I think it will be there for a long time, probably longer than I want.





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Offline geezer56

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2010, 04:50:20 PM »
I have a 3 1/2 in chambered 12 ga turkey gun.  It has the 22 in barrel.  I used Devcon 2 part epoxy to attach the firesight set that came off of my 500 S&W.  About 50 rds thru it now, no problems.  I removed the chunk of steel in the buttstock that made it handle like a butt heavy 2X4, so recoil is a bit brisk.  Especially with a 3 in magnum.  Don't think a 3 1/2 load is in my future, not in that gun.  The commercial type epoxies will hold the sights on come recoil or whatever.
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Offline shotgunhntr

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2010, 06:42:41 PM »
I've got a gunsmith to put the scope rail on and he said he can do sights as well.  This little gun is light.  I don't see any 3.5" shells in my future either and I haven't even shot it yet.  I am going to get a full length forearm for it and put a metal cap on just to add some weight to the front.  I hope this gun is a turkey buster without too much punishment on me.  I may get a 20 ga as well just for the fun of it.   ;D
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Offline shotgunhntr

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2010, 09:44:41 PM »
Well, took the 12ga to the gunsmith today and he changed his tune.  He said he wouldn't even consider drill and tap or silver solder.  He said he would make the chamber too hot and the chamber would be annealed and too soft following the solder job.   :-[

Can I get a 26" 20ga barrel for it?  I want the one with screw in chokes but without the vent rib.
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Offline spikehorn

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2010, 05:06:18 AM »
Find a diffrent gunsmith
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Offline shotgunhntr

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2010, 06:30:59 AM »
I have considered that.  In AK, not many to choose from.  The one I went to is one of the most reputable around, nationally as well.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2010, 07:02:17 AM »
I'm no expert on silver soldering, but I don't think it requires any temp close to enough to anneal the chamber, to my knowledge that requires the metal to be heated to a dull cherry red which is about 1300º, about twice the temp silver soldering requires.

Tim

http://www.gswagner.com/misc/silversolder.html
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Offline shotgunhntr

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2010, 07:19:52 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on February 21, 2010, 07:02:17 AM
I'm no expert on silver soldering, but I don't think it requires any temp close to enough to anneal the chamber, to my knowledge that requires the metal to be heated to a dull cherry red which is about 1300º, about twice the temp silver soldering requires.

Tim

http://www.gswagner.com/misc/silversolder.html
Obviously, I'm not either.  He told me he needed to heat the metal to 1100 degrees to do it.  From your link, it would appear he would have over heated it anyway.  I may call one other place to see if they can do it.

I have to admit I was a little mad when I left the gunsmith.  He and his right hand talked to me like I was stupid for wanting to customize a single shot anyway.  I heard "Just buy a pump".  I said why?  He said for multiple shots.  I told him, "I don't know about you, but I only need one."  Then I was told  "You don't need anything more than that brass post to kill a turkey. I don't know why you would want different sights anyway."  For a place that makes a living from customizing guns, you'd think they would be more understanding if someone wants to do some custom work.
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Offline spikehorn

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2010, 07:36:24 AM »
My gunsmith was hesitant to D&T my Tracker II 20ga but he did it, after I got it home and sighted it in I took a picture on my phone of my 3 shot group whiched looked like 2 holes touching at 65 yards with aTru Glo 2X red dot and stopped by to show him. he was quit impressed, and proud of his work. Now he is doing a 22" 20ga smooth bore for me.
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308 win                 45-70                       12ga         
30-30                    223 stainless steel   20ga TDC
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45-70 Manlicher     20ga USH                28ga
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2010, 07:41:42 AM »
Give site sponsor  Wayne York a call and ask him.  ;)

Tim

http://home.earthlink.net/~oregunsmithing/id11.html
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2010, 09:07:01 AM »
There are 2 basic silver solders used on guns, one has  900 degree melting point and another has an 1100 degree melting point. By ATF rules, solver solder used to affix a muzzle device to an AR barrel to bring it to the 16" legal minimum must have at least a minimum 1100 degree melting point. The gunsmith may be using that temperature solder....<><....:)
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 12 ga dilemma
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2010, 10:54:54 AM »
Brownell's solder instructions state that the work piece can't be too hot, or the silver solder will bead up and run off, the working temp should be 640° F - 650° F.

Tim

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=711/Product/HI_TEMP_HI_FORCE_44_trade__SOLDER

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/learn/Inst-506%20Hi-force%2044%20solder.pdf
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