Mount Vernon Statement

[teamnelson]

http://www.themountvernonstatement.com/

A movement for constitutional conservatism. Whaddya think?

[BoomLover]

I signed it.

[teamnelson]

TM7, could you elaborate? Perhaps dissect the statement and show us where it's in error?

[teamnelson]

I don't know if it is, which is why I posted it here for feedback. Neocon jedi mindtrick seemed to indicate that you had a strong feeling against it, which is why I asked for clarity.

What I do find interesting about the movement (not the document) is that it is seeking to draw 3 types of conservatives into a single entity, and its implied in the document that the movement believes that each of the 3 needs to embrace aspects of conservativism it perhaps has not prior. Not unlike appealing to traditional hunters to support CCW legislation under the single umbrella of 2A rights. It makes logical sense to me that unifying the conservative base is the way forward for them ... perhaps the like mindedness you desire?

There are 3 types of change people pursue in almost every aspect of their lives ... 1) reform; making the existing better or returning it to its perceived better roots. 2) revolution; replacing the existing with a different form which is perceived to be better than the prior. 3) or retreat & rebuild; standing back and watching the existing fall apart of its own accord, then stepping in on the rubble and building up a perceived to be better replacement. [A 4th might be "redeem" but thats a theological concept not applicable to governments.] I perceive this statement to be an effort of #1, reform. However, I am doubtful that things will change without #2, revolution. And there are many days when I kinda hope it would just fall, and we could start over from scratch, #3.

[littlecanoe]

TN,
TM7's 4th point is interesting.

I'm reminded of the Great Awakening of the mid-1700's.
Do you view that as setting the stage for the patriots?

Do you see hints of such a resurgence now?

[teamnelson]

Well, I think its true that the revolutionary concept that all man are equal and defined by their moral behavior, not their class, was fruit from the 1st great awakening. There's a few books out there that support that, and the influence of the 2nd great awakening on slavery, and the 3rd great awakening on the depression. I think you can see that pretty clearly in history.

And if you map the differences between the 3 awakenings I think you can see a steady drift from an emphasis of true spiritual awakening towards mere social action. If we are in a 4th awakening, it is less about faith and more about conservative moral outrage ... or liberal social conciousness. In other words, it originates less with God and His Word, and more from ourselves and what we think about God and His Word.

But that's the same cycle of development you can watch in the life of an individual. At the moment of regeneration, they are afire with the reality of a restored relationship (1st GA), but the feeling fades a little and they miss the feeling. So then they have a passion for personal holiness in themselves and others (2nd GA) perhaps to rekindle the feeling, and that's frustrating and unattainable, so then they move into social concern (3rd GA) which gives one the direct satisfaction from participation in what is "good." But that's tiring and you can get abused so the next phase is less hands on, but perhaps more vocal in the public forum over moral outrage ... and that's where we are now. After that I think we just mutter under our breath nostalgic epithets, and fade into irrelevance.

But God calls us to remember our first love ... I think we the people of these United States are gonna suffer a lot more than we do now before we see another time like the 1st great awakening. I don't think you can bring back the constitutional commitment of the founders without first having another great awakening.

TM7, I concur that the articles of confederation were stronger by far, and I would argue more firmly rooted in the ecumenical morality springing from the 1st awakening. But I think the constitution was a wise compromise that acknowledged we would lose our zeal over time and need a more sizeable set of stone tablets to lean on.