carriage material

[prospector86]

I have found the plans I want to use for my first carriage and was wondering what type of wood you guys would recomend to use. I know I need to use a hardwood but there's a lot to choose from, was looking for input from the experts

[Cannoneer]

In America the preferred wood for naval, field, siege, and seacoast carriages was/is white oak. 

[carronader]

prospector you need to give more information on what you are going to build........some idea of date of carriage........US......Euro.......Asian...........to suit what barrel ?........but maybe even more important.......are you gonna paint it ?  Some people seem to forget one or two other countries outside the US did get around to nailing a few bits of wood together. 
 Nothing wrong with your question ... just too wide a subject without more info from you.  Budget....tools you have.......and access to materials........should be high on your list.  How good and historically correct you wanna build it.......who you building it for ?  yourself ?  then food chopping boards from store can be good source..........got a bandsaw ?   Check out the neighbours fruit trees... a bit of after dark pruning ? dumpster diving..........when it comes to finding material...........take no prisoners.......even the Montana moneybags brags about gratis goodies.........and rightly so. If you gonna paint it.........you don't need high quality........biggest of your responsibility.....safety......make sure it's strong enough for live firing.   come back with a wee bit more info.   

[Double D]

White oak was preferred and not always available and other woods were used.  If you go through this board you will find a lot different woods used...one of fellows used some sort exotic purple-red wood.

Finding heavy thick slabs of white oak that isn't cracked and split can be pretty difficult.  If you get the book "Building 18th Century Naval Artillery"]/u] that problem is address.
Laminating.  The Book is about building Naval Artilery but there is a lot of Ideas in there for building anything with oak.

I might mention if you get a copy of the original plans for the Napoleon gun from Antique Ordnance Plans, those plans describe how to properly orient the grain of the wood to laminate and make the original carriages.Those plans also mention other wood that were used.

Sources of wood can be difficult. But look for alternatives sources.   When I moved in here up in the attic of the garage was a stack of what looks like oak that came from the frame of an old sofa and and an old chest of drawers. The local Hardware store has stacks of pallets out behind their warehouse, free for the taking. May not be white oak, but it's hard and strong. 

I encourage painting.  I cite that most carriages were painted, they were.  Fancy figured wood has a purpose and if you want to make a fancy cannon by all means use it.  I prefer paint...I have limited wood butchery skills.  Paint and putty cover up any number of ills.

[Zulu]

In the past, I have found a number of old pallets that yeilded nice white oak and even one that was made of mahogany (I didn't know it till I planed it).
DD is right about paint.  It is very forgiving.
Zulu

[longcaribiner]

pallets and skids yield good wood for small projects.  I had a project recently that required larger pieces and went to a small local saw mill. I made sure that what I got wasn't green but several years old.  (even skids and pallets are often made from green wood that will check and split in time. )   I got some very nice well aged 6x6 white oak pieces.  This particular miller will actually cut to custom size if you really want special stuff.   I have purchased several amounts from him over the past ten years.  I recently traded him two cherry logs for some sawn locust posts.   This guy keeps an eye out for all kinds of wood and usually has just about any local species in stock.  He even supplies walnut burls to bowl makers across the mid atlantic. 

If you must, there is a way to "dry" wood at home in a home made "kiln"  You must get the wood hot enough to kill certain cells in the wood.   A friend of mine did it for some special  pegged plank flooring he made for his house.

[1Southpaw]

scrounging in my shop I found a piece of laminated oak. Years ago my son worked for a building outfit in Boise Id.  They had remnants of this material they were throwing away .
"Like father like son "  he packratted home a good supply if odds and ends of this material .
I made a clock of this larger remnant.


I think I have enough left to make a carriage .  It should be stable.
The company made all different thickness of laminate , What I have is 3/4"

[dan610324]

older swedish carriages had the hubs and axle tree in elm and the rest in oak

[RocklockI]

I must say like everyone has been saying ...good wood ...is where you find it . I found a cutting board made of figured olive wood at a 'Bed Bath and Beyond' IIRC

It made a dandy piar of 1911A1 grips ! and some other stuff but I forget now what it was .
gary

[Double D]

Wood is where you find it.  Watch for old building being tore down.

Back when I was in the Service, they rebuilt the base bowling alley.  They took a chain saw to the old alleys and dumped the 6-7 foot sections in the dumpster.  Several of use dug them out  and carried them to the base hobby shop where they were made into hundred of maple cutting boards and table tops.

Some years ago a friend Maryland was helping the neighbor tear down and old collapsed derelict barn.  The heady header beams were walnut. I got dozen or so gun stocks out of the beams. I only have one left.

I also have over the year cut numerous gun stock blanks from many a log.  Some good wood from those trees, and lots of plain Jane boring stuff left over, some in my attic yet and will make good carriage wood...

My son has a big sweet gum tree down on his place that I am thinking bout getting when I go back to see him next year. I'll take the log over to the Amish sawmill and get some big lumber made say 4" x 8" and haul it back here for future use.

[Cannoneer]

I have found the plans I want to use for my first carriage and was wondering what type of wood you guys would recomend to use. I know I need to use a hardwood but there's a lot to choose from, was looking for input from the experts

Prospector86,
There's one major drawback to speed reading, and that is not "getting" the actual content of a statement, or question because of haste. For some reason I thought you were asking what was the historically correct wood that was used in making the original carriages, and latter reproduction carriages. If your making a scale model carriage, and are asking what types of woods could possibly be utelized, then there is a large selection of woods that you can choose from. Just off the top of my head here are some of the woods that I've seen used on model carriages: Teak, maple, ebony, black walnut, rosewood, mahogany, elm, ash, red oak, bubinga, purpleheart wood, cocobolo, cherry, etc., etc. Double D mentioned a member that used (IIRC) bloodwood to make the bed for his Confederate coehorn mortar, and one of our sponsors (Lendi) has made a couple of carriages for another member (El Cazador) out of exotic woods that I can't remember the names of right now, while yet another member (Richard "The Usually Mad at Me" - Hi Rich) is planning on making his next carriage out of rock maple. So as I said, you've got a lot of options open to you.

[Frank46]

I have to go with Double D, look out for old houses and especially barns. Some old houses actually had two layers of flooring installed. The house I had on long island had a double flooring. 3/4" oak running in opposite directions. Bowling alleys if being torn down is usually hard rock maple. Seem to rememmber 1" thick slabs. Old movie theaters had wood on the stages. There are a lot of places to get scrap wood that would be suitable for making carriages. Shouldn't cost much since the contractor is usually being paid to dispose of it. Just a few thoughts. Frank

[carronader]

Speed reading boomj.........tsk ! tsk !   ........not what you expect from an ' expert '

[Spuddy]

I have to go with Double D, look out for old houses and especially barns. Some old houses actually had two layers of flooring installed. The house I had on long island had a double flooring. 3/4" oak running in opposite directions. Bowling alleys if being torn down is usually hard rock maple. Seem to rememmber 1" thick slabs. Old movie theaters had wood on the stages. There are a lot of places to get scrap wood that would be suitable for making carriages. Shouldn't cost much since the contractor is usually being paid to dispose of it. Just a few thoughts. Frank

Just to the left of the fire ball is a barn that will be torn down this summer.  The camera is sitting on the front steps of a house that will also be torn down.  Hard wood floors throughout the house and plenty of beams in the barn.  Maybe some potential carriage wood here?

[RocklockI]

'Just to the left of the FIREBALL '....you mention the fireball as a point of referance ? Like maybe that sort of thing just happens in Maine and come in handy as referance marks .

"..Oh ya the grocery store eh ? ...go down this road past the first fireball and turn left at the second one ...." The third Fireball is in the parking lot ...you cant miss it !

Why is there a fireball Spuddy ?  I like it alot 

[Spuddy]

Gary,  I wished we lived closer together we could have a lot of fun I think.  I have a friend who is in the State Police bomb squad.  The Maine Potato Board inherited a seed farm from the State.  Along with the farm came a lab with tons of old chemicals.  Most of the chemicals were taken away by clean harbors.  What they didn't take is a quart of ethel ether that was about 35 years old.  So we called the bomb squad.  They dug a shallow hole and put two pounds of a military grade tnt next to the quart can, wired it all up and presto no more unstable ethel ether.  I have permission to use the house as a target to try out the new Fox balls.  It is the only house within two miles with 2 million acres of North Maine Woods to the rear.  I am planning on setting up a video camera inside to film the effects of a steel balls passing through a wall.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiuyWfnNyr4

[carronader]

do it tomorrow spuddy..............pretty please        always wanted an idea of what being in a ship under fire was like.............what you are gonna do is proly nearest I'll get to see.

[Spuddy]

Still to much snow will probably have to wait until middle of April.

[RocklockI]

I can only agree Spud "we could have alot of fun !" 

Do you have a burm ,So you can recover the balls ? Have your shot any steelies yet ?

Its snowing again here  .....I think its been snowing my whole life this winter .....

I'm in the begining stages of planning a trip to Coasta Rica as a good friend has spread down there . He just got there 2 weeks ago and has already said COME ON DOWN ......Pacific coast .

yep still snowing .... Two more "Boat Drinks" Please , Oh dear I believe I've hooked another huge Marlin ,

"Listen once you get him off the hook Mr deckhand , throw him back ,and dont bait my hook Iatellaya ! 600 lb marlins are begining to wear me out ......"

still snowing ......

 


 

[xo18thfa]

I know it's probably not authentic, but I would go with cherry.  Cherry darkens quickly, so you get a natural aged look in a short period of time.  Quarter sawn white oak is second choice.

[Ex 49'er]

Shooting a house sounds like fun. Shooting a house with a cannon is even better.

[seacoastartillery]

I know it's probably not authentic, but I would go with cherry.  Cherry darkens quickly, so you get a natural aged look in a short period of time.  Quarter sawn white oak is second choice.

     xo18thfa,  We like cherry too and walnut and mahogany, they are so easy to work and look very nice too, but our favorite is still white oak.  Below are a few snap shots from the pile of wood that will go into one of the three Brooke rifles we are currently making for customers around the country.  One customer wanted fancy wood, so we indicated that was possible as long as it was white oak. He's getting the nicest quarter sawn white oak that we have worked in a long, long time.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy

[KABAR2]

  I have permission to use the house as a target to try out the new Fox balls.  It is the only house within two miles with 2 million acres of North Maine Woods to the rear.  I am planning on setting up a video camera inside to film the effects of a steel balls passing through a wall.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiuyWfnNyr4

Spuddy,

Here is a great chance to set up a northern cannon shoot! I bet there would be a few people up that way  or would be willing to travel
who would love a chance to tear down a house with artillery fire.....

[1Southpaw]

I have permission to use the house as a target to try out the new Fox balls.

I may never get over the visual image of  Fox balls flying through the house ...... 

Wish I lived closer , I would love to help with a few bowling balls !   The Bowl really wouldn't mind.

[GGaskill]

Wish I lived closer, I would love to help with a few bowling balls!

Maybe at the next CBC², the early arrivals can build a frame wall at the range as a target.

[Cannoneer]

I know it's probably not authentic, but I would go with cherry.  Cherry darkens quickly, so you get a natural aged look in a short period of time.  Quarter sawn white oak is second choice.

There was a guy that was selling his scale model (different sizes, this one had a 16'' barrel) cannons on an e-auction site, and on some of his pieces the carriages and wheels were made of cherry; it is definitely a good looking wood.

[Cannoneer]

I have permission to use the house as a target to try out the new Fox balls.

I may never get over the visual image of  Fox balls flying through the house ...... 

Wish I lived closer , I would love to help with a few bowling balls !   The Bowl really wouldn't mind.

Southpaw,
Your post made me think of a field experiment that you and Douglas could undertake. I wonder how far a BB fired using a maximum charge in your mortar would travel before it hit the ground, if it were fired point-blank range, (barrel parallel to the ground) or with just a few degrees of elevation? But you can't get the barrel level on that bed; can you? You'd have to find a way to angle the whole bed downward, maybe set up on the slope of a hill. 

[1Southpaw]

Not a problem for a farm engineering hammer and tong sort of guy .  I have a machine vice I could mount it in for a test bed . it will angle to 45 degrees so 45 and 45 would be parallel  . I saved the wood boxes my Mill and Lathe came in . They will make nice big stable (with a few rocks in the bottom ) Targets.
Now for some ambition to go with the ideas ....... 

[Cannoneer]

Hey, it may turn out to be a long slow summer, you might get the urge to conduct some intresting artilley ballistic tests.
I don't remember what grade powder you were using; how much cannon grade would the powder chamber hold?  

[Double D]

John,

I knew as soon as you said can't he would and will!