Author Topic: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.  (Read 7310 times)

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Offline Veral

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New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« on: February 18, 2010, 07:31:32 PM »
   The 45 colt seems to be a more problematic round than the other revolver calibers, and I believe because of the larger than normal chambers in a majority of revolvers.  So, when a customer who's favorite toy is the 45 colt, asked if I would copy a commercial cast bullet which he's had great success with, but can no longer get, I asked him to send samples.  He said that this light bullet out shoots anything he has ever used, in any 45 colt revolver or levergun, and even performs well in 45 ACP.  I copied it with a few subtle modifications to enhance accuracy even more, and am offering molds at 20% off for a while.  There will be two weights in 45 caliber, one weight in 44 caliber to start. (The customer said the 225 grain, PLAIN BASE, groups, 4 inches at 100 yards from his unaltered lever guns, which is stunning for such a short bullet.)    What I'm offering will beat that ragged or I wouldn't be writing about it. --  If you get a mold, I would appreciate all feedback you'll send me on it, because if it isn't a steller performer, I'll axe it off my offerings immediately, like I have been doing for 30 years since I first started making molds.  Trust me though, I know it will be an accurate bullet, and here's why.

  First its .270 diameter meplat, in 45 cal, is big enough to be quite effective on game if well placed, and exceptionally good for small game, at low speeds, as it will punch a half inch hole through when driven at 800 fps.   That will kill small game instantly with an anywhere chest hit and most places in the body.  At 1000 fps wound diameters will run close to 3/4 inch and at 1400 fps, about an inch, making it deadly on any big game with relitively decent hits.  These are far smaller wounds than my WFN when driven at equal speed, but deadly never the less.  If it didn't offer this fairly decent killing meplat, I wouln't have redesigned the rest of the bullet.  Now heres the glory part.  The relitively slim meplat sits on a short graceful ogive that's only .250 long, with a tiny tapered shoulder from ogive out to body diameter, so it will run through a levergun as slick as working the lever with no cartridges, and feed smooth in auto pistols.  The trim ogive also slides through the air with minimal turbulance, while the lightweight nose and aerodynamic form, does wonders for accuracy by putting minimal side thrust on the bearing surface which guides the bullet.  (These are the things I see and look for in bullet designs, after 30 years of mold making.  A good bullet design is as visually evident to me as a rat nanny in a suger bowl.) 
  The customer who sent the samples wanted a 225 grain bullet copied, but it came out 230 gr with Wheel weight alloy and my tiny modifications to  strengthen and enhance the bearing and lubrication.  Everything about the bullet design is pointed toward wringing accuracy from a light weight.   If you've been wanting a really light, cheap to shoot, 45 revolver/carbine bullet, this is it.
  When I copied the light bullet it was with intentions of also making it in heavier weights, so I immediately cut a 250 gr with the same nose, and this is the one that really excites me.  It has a bearing surface slightly shorter but very similar to the Keith 44 SWC, but the tiny nose weight will enhance it's accuracy potential dramatically, and, the 250 gr weight is necessary to make most fixed sight revolvers shoot to the sights.  (I'll adjust weight to whatever is wanted if you have a gun that needs more or less weight to shoot to the sights.)  I haven't cut a 44 caliber yet as of this writing, but in 240 gr it will be slightly longer than the 45 250, and more accurate.

  For starters I'm offering this bullet in 230 and 250 gr. 45 caliber, and in 240 gr 44 caliber.  I can make them heavy as one wants but it's not a design for heavy weight use, nor is it a heavy duty game thumper like my other designs.  These are designed to be used at low to moderate velocities, and plain base, though I will cut gas check on request.  The customer who sent samples shoots his lightweight, 230 gr, at 800 to 1000 max in revolvers and up to 1200 fps in rifles.  My altered design will do better, but, to be sure you aren't dissapointed, plan on keeping velocities low if you choose the lightweight.  But wring it out by all means!  Just don't complain if it doesn't make a 45 Swift revolver.  The 250 gr 45, and 240 44 are another matter.  They carry heavy lubrication, and strong drive bands, which I know will stand along side the best plain base bullets ever made in similar weights, regarding accuracy and velocity potential, and they will kill big game clean and quick when velocity is pushed up to 1400 fps plus.  Keep in mind though, that I'm not selling these as the ultimate big game killers.  My other offerings meet that criteria, and can't be improved on. 
   Again, the goal with these is.  Steller accuracy for the light weights, with superb plainbase  performance, and decent but not dramatic killing punch.  A year round packing and plinking bullet par excellence.

  If you want to try one of these molds, email me at LBTisAccuracy@Imbris.net     and do your ordering direct by email, as I won't be putting it in my catalog till I get a flood of good reports.  With the 20% discount the price will be $100 for a two cavity, or $140 for a 4 cavity, plus $10 shipping to any US address. 

 
Veral Smith

Offline wdr2

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2010, 05:33:33 PM »
Hi Veral -

Does this new bullet have a crimp groove similar to your WFN and LFN 45 cal pistol bullets?  Also, what is the nose length on the 250 gr 45 version?  I am interested in using the new bullet in a Ruger Bisley at about 1000-1100 fps.

Thanks,
Bill
Idaho Falls, ID

Offline Veral

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2010, 06:20:06 PM »
  I put a small crimp groove on the light weight 45, and the normal larger crimp on the 250 gr, which will have a nose length of .4, due to the short ogive.  In other words it goes much deeper into the case than any of my normal bullets which are all designed for slugging power, yet it's bearing outside the case is strong for top accuracy, as jump to the rifling is the same as my LFN's with .45 nose, or the 44 Keith.  Going into the case a bit deeper improves efficiency of the powder, meaning slightly lower powder charges.
Veral Smith

Offline david.bergen

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2010, 10:24:14 PM »
Hi Veral,
I am also interested in the 250 gr.
Is this a SWC or truncated cone bullet? I have no idea how the bullet looks like.
David

Offline Veral

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2010, 11:03:43 PM »
  Of the other bullets I offer, its appearance is closest to my LFN's but the ogive has a beveled shoulder similar to a tiny SWC shoulder and the meplat is smaller, ogive shorter.
  I sure wish I could post pictures and maybe can do some experimenting with that.  Since the above bullet, I came up with another quite similar but with the same meplat as the LFN.  Its purpose, like the one described above is to acheive maximum bearing for light weight bullets, to yeild better accuracy than most lightweights.
  I don't know that I made it clear though, that these bullets will never match the accuracy of heavy LFN bullets, because their bearing length is still shorter than a heavy bullet.
Veral Smith

Offline Porterhouse

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2011, 04:26:52 PM »
Hi Veral,
Do you still offer this design? If so, would you consider other calibers other than for .44 or .45?
 
Thanks,

Offline Veral

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2011, 08:29:52 PM »
  Yes, it's still available and an excellent bullet, and I'll consider any caliber asked for.    It hasn't taken off well at all, and I believe only because i don't have the smarts or equipment to post photos on my website or this forum.  Please email me and tell me what you want to shoot it in and I'll tell you the possibilities, which are near limitless.
Veral Smith

Offline Porterhouse

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2011, 12:25:06 PM »
Veral,
Sounds good! I'll send you an e-mail with the details but what I have in mind is for 500S&W, around 400gr @1,300fps or so.
What would you like to call this design by the way? SFN=Smallish Flat Nose or MFN=Mini Flat Nose or such? I know this won't be a standard offering yet but still, it'll be nice to have some kind of name.

Offline curator

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2011, 04:16:45 PM »
Veral,
 
 The 454-280 LFN mould you made for me a few years ago is a real winner in my various .45 SAA revolvers and especially my Rossi M92 lever rifle. I have shot many 2", 5-shot groups at 100 yards from the bench (iron sights) much to the astonishment of my hunting buddies. That 280 grain LFN is a real thumper on Florida white-tails and giant feral hogs.
 
The plain base slug cast from 1 in 30 tin-lead alloy is extremely accurate under 35 grains of FFFg black powder. This gives almost 1000 fps from my 7 1/2 inch Uberti Cattleman's barrel and the authority to positively flatten the steel targets at 50 yards.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2011, 04:44:55 PM »
well if you can't post a picture veral


just fill up a  USPS SMALL FLAT RATE BOX FOR LESS THAN $5


mail them to me and  i will post the  pictures  for you


i will also test them  in  my  45 lc handi rifle


go ahead and send  some  WFN [my favorite]  and LFN  for comparison


i picture is worth a thousand words...
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Veral

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2011, 09:10:28 PM »
MR 45-70.   Thank you VERY much.  Email your address to me and I"ll fix you up with a hearty thank you!  My email address is LBTisAccuracy@localnet.com
Veral Smith

Offline gewing

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2011, 10:24:42 PM »
I am only now getting into reloading for handguns.  I did a bit of loading for rifles when I was a kid, but now I want to load for .45acp and hopefully fairly soon, .45colt.  Would this be a good general purpose bullet for both calibers?  I had thought about a disparate pair of bullets that would be usable for each.  I thought a 200gr bullet with a fairly wide meplat would work for either, loaded to about 1000fps in the acp.  I also considered a 250-260 grain bullet loaded much slower, but with extreme penetration for the acp cartridge, and a reasonable bullet for the colt in a revolver, as it would have plenty of penetration for deer. 

I don't know enough about lead bullets to know if your WFN or LFN  bullets would be good for both cartridges, or what the advantages and disadvantages of each might be.  I understand one is better at "long range", but at lower velocities would that be over 25 yards or over 150 yards?   
I think your book will probably be my birthday present this month, but until then...

Thanks a lot for any advice.  I have been reading rave reviews of your bullets for years, so am thrilled that you are in production again.

Offline Porterhouse

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2011, 05:50:06 PM »
Gentlemen,
I just received a mold with this design for my .500. The design looks very good! Just as Veral said, it has smallish flat nose and it appears to have the longest bearing length by comparing with some jacketed or other cast bullets design in same weight(400gr). I haven't had a chance to try this mold/design yet as it literally arrived here but I will in a couple of weeks. I'll let you know how they shoot once I get enough test done so, stay tuned! 

Offline crash87

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2011, 03:03:28 AM »
I to would like to see a picture of said bullet.
45/70, you were suppose to post the pictures, BEFORE ;)  you shot them!
crash87

Offline Porterhouse

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2011, 01:33:36 AM »
Okay,
I took some pictures. Does any of you knows how to post pics. here?

Offline cinosbus

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2011, 01:51:05 AM »
What weight would you cut for a .475?

Offline Veral

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2011, 06:08:37 PM »
  With any bullet profile that I offer, you can ask for any weight you want to try and if I feel certain it is a good design I'll make it.  If I'm leary about performance  I'll let you know before I make it, and will still make many things I don't recommend as long as the customer is forwarned.  In most cases when I've done this, they are happy with performance, though I don't believe I would be.

Keep in mind, that if you want a minimum weight accurate bullet for any caliber revolver, this is the bullet which will shoot best, because it maximisus bearing length while maintaining a good flight form nose profile.
Veral Smith

Offline goofyoldfart

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2012, 08:44:33 AM »
OK Veral, I'm going to jump in here and ask the "Stupid Question".  While I have cast for many years (about 60) I would surely appreciate your opinion on this style bullet in two pistols. one is a .44 Spl. Taurus and the other is a Taurus .357maggie. Both are Brand new and very tight. the .44spl. is a 4inch barrel while the .357 is a 3 inch barrel.  Both will be carried as daily concealed weapons in different situations and also as a short range hunting weapon (25-50 yards). I don't want high velocity in either (around 950-1000 fps.) but do like heavy for caliber. I, for one, would appreciate your experience and opinion as to how I would best be served in these calibers. Thank you for your time and wisdom. God Bless to all.


                                                 Goofyoldfart.

PS. If this design is not optimum--what would you suggest considering the parameters given especially with stopping power for two legged "rat Nanny's". Thanks again. :)

ETA: correct sentence structure.  OOPSIE.







Offline Veral

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2012, 08:54:40 PM »
  These bullets have not sold well, and probably because I've never shown a photo, as they are very neat looking and accurate.    However the design is intended for large caliber, lets say 44 plus, and primarly to be used on small game with less destructiveness than the WFN or in the 38 cal, the FN.

  Those two are your bullets for the two specials.  probably stick with the standard weights of 240-250 for the 44 and 160 + a little if desired for 38 cal, as most of the little guns have fixed sights and will  need the standard weights to hit to the sights.
Veral Smith

Offline goofyoldfart

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2012, 11:45:00 AM »
Veral : thank you for your reply. I really want to order both, but I have to wait for a month due to the fact that I'm on Social Security and have to budget for them. If I understand you correctly, the 38/357 would be best at 160grs. (though I would really like about 170ish) and that this bullet would be able to be fired in 38spl. as well as 357? If so that would give me a good bullet to fire in 4 pistols and one handi rifle. :)  thanks for any advice. God Bless you and yours. 

                                                    Goofy.

Offline 475AR10

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2012, 12:56:44 PM »
Veral,
Do you think this would make a good subsonic bullet in .458 and .500 diameter?

Offline Veral

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2012, 08:09:33 PM »
  It will definately make a superb subsonic bullet in any caliber, but not if made to too heavy a weight for the rifling of the gun of interest.  I get many requests for extra heavy bullets by customers who want to shoot them subsonic.  I'll cut any experiment wanted, but have found it best to keep weights moderate to light for low velocity use.   Heavy bullets which are marginally stabilized do not make good game bullets, which is normally the reason heavy subsonic bullets are wanted.  If a bullet is barely stabilized in flight, or wobbling when it hits game, it will certainly tumble before penetrating very far.  Tumbling bullets are not good killers.
Veral Smith

Offline azvaquero

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2012, 05:13:08 PM »
Anybody had a chance to try one of these out yet?  Was anybody able to post a picture anywhere?

Offline azvaquero

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2012, 08:03:55 PM »
Veral, have you received ANY reports on these back from ANYBODY? 

Offline Veral

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2012, 07:47:03 PM »
Only one, and that from the guy who I origonally designed them for, and I concluded that he was content if his gun went bang, almost.  He said they shot well but no real report.

  I've only sold a few, and the design is good for those who want light revolver bullet.
Veral Smith

Offline 475AR10

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2013, 01:29:08 PM »
Veral,
With this bullet design what weight would you suggest for the 50GI (the 50GI is same length and psi as 45ACP, but .500 caliber.) the 50GI also uses 300gr bullets as standard weight, but can run bullets in weight from 185gr to 350gr, it is loaded to same COL as 45ACP.I would want this bullet for subsonic loads.
Thanks
Scott

Offline Veral

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2013, 07:27:40 PM »
  Whatever weight you want within the range your gun is capable of handling.    I'd reccomend keeping the weight in the about a third of the way up in the weight range, so you can drive them fast enough to make them deadly on live targets.  Maybe 250 gr.  But take a pick yourself. 
Veral Smith

Offline 475AR10

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2013, 08:20:33 AM »
Great, thanks.
What do you call this style of bullet?

Offline silverpelican

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2013, 04:50:23 PM »
Veral
Maybe, I am getting ahead of myself.....but how would this bullet style work in 44 SW special....ie Ruger Lipsey flattop new model Blackhawk....But using the shorter 44 Russian Case?  Thank you.....waiting on the mail everyday looking for my  260 gr. WFN in 44 special.....Thanks so much for your time on the phone ....

Offline crash87

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Re: New large caliber handgun bullet, especially 45 Colt.
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2013, 04:35:17 AM »
  These bullets have not sold well, and probably because I've never shown a photo, as they are very neat looking and accurate.
This post, started by Veral, in Feb'2010, then 2 years later the above post was typed. Yes, as with a lot of things I've learned from Veral on cast bullets, I AGREE.
But, I won't know about the accuracy in my firearms until I actually see, how neat looking, they really are.
To the masses, if you can figure out how to turn on a computer, log on to this site, and let us know of your experiences, you certainly CAN post a picture. This post is 3 years old, surly by now someone, (fortunate enough to have an example) has gotten it figured out.
Crash87