Author Topic: New 1911 failures  (Read 3258 times)

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Offline mdi

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New 1911 failures
« on: February 19, 2010, 05:25:05 AM »
I am shopping/researching to buy my first 1911. I look at most posts about "I just got a ____ and it jams and won't feed". There seems to be an answer on every such post; "Well, my ______ will eat everything I feed it". So, I guess my question is; accross the board, which are the best, most reliable entry level 1911s available without breaking the bank? (I'm on a severe budget).  On a whole? Not the odd lemon, but generally speaking. Which manufacturer is most consistant at turning out good guns (Cheap too?). I'm gonn have to order one 'cause I haven't seen any on the shelves locally, and don't want to be shipping a bum gun back to the mfg. and waiting...


BTW; I am a reloader and will be trying different weight boolits and loads.

Offline Dee

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 05:26:50 AM »
Springfield I think are the best if your wanting a plain jane that shoots.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 05:36:11 AM »
I have had Colts 1991 ser. that worked out the box and kimber also . It seems most problems come from 3 main things .
 1- limp wrist
 2-bad mags
 3-some one tried to improve the gun .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline gray-wolf

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2010, 07:18:43 AM »
I have seen your question asked over and over again.  If there was a pat answer I am sure it would have been given by now, and we all could direct you to it. Perhaps even make it a sticky.
  Truth is there is no correct answer, is there one that is close? yup.
When someone Say's I have a ___________1911 and it shoots great, and yes it eats everything.
Does that mean it's a 1911 that was made correctly ? Not really IMHO.  Why? because the original
well made to speck 1911 made by J. M. B.  was made to shoot 225-230 gr. hard ball jacketed ammo.
  Not LSWC's, and not nose shortened Hollow points.
The gun folks have learned that the shooting folks don't want to shoot only FMJ hardball ammo.
  So what do we want to shoot? Eh. Most times the answer is everything.
We expect our 1911's to shoot FMJ 230 grain, 200 grain LSWC's, lead HP, copper HP, short nose bullets, long nose bullets, and in some cases even chamber an empty case, and do it all without a hi-cup.
  Can it be done? YES it can, I have the proof of it on my hip as I type.
Can it happen with a low end 1911? yes. is it the norm? no.
If we spend more money are we assured our pistol will be correct from the factory? Not really.
  With todays manufacturing standards, parts being made here and there, and the incompetence of the people putting them together,I truly think you take your chances.
  But I also think you can narrow down the odds in your favor.
I have to be a little careful of how I say things because all the sharp INTERNET no it alls will shoot me down.  I can here it now, ------Hey I have an XYZ pistol that I got for $499.00 and it shoots great,
goes bang every time and I can hit a dime at 50 yards
 
  Well I say to them go buy 5 more and see if they all shoot the same way, because John Smith down the block has the same 1911 and it's a piece of junk, Say's he.
  From my trials in the gun buying arena, I would give this advise.
Decide on the type of 1911 you want, full size--compact, steel frame, alloy frame, blued, stainless, how many bells and whistles you want, As to how many you really NEED.and so on.  How much money you want to spend? Many folks today want all they can get for as little money as possible, Human nature I guess.
  Do a little research and find out what gun people have the best return program in order to fix what is wrong with you gun, What there turn around time is? and do they pay the shipping? (each way)very important, if not it could cost you $60.00 bucks to send a pistol back for fixing.
  Because if you don't get lucky you will need them to stand behind the pistol and it's warranty.
If you receive a pistol that functions to your satisfaction out of the box, that's great and what I am
saying could mean nothing to you.  But what if a part breaks 6 months down the road? does that mean you got a bad gun? no it means that the part broke. Do you have to pay a smith 50 or 60 $$ to fix a broken 5$$
part or spend perhaps 60$$ to ship it back and play with yourself for 3 months till you get it back, and be told the part is not covered under warranty?  Don't think it can't happen, it can and it does.
Every day. Do the research think a little before you by.
  Stay with what works and the Co. that will make it work if it don't,  put it back in your hand in a short time, and not expect you to pay for it.  WOW does that even exist? it sure does.
  Let me give an instance. I bought a Springfield 1911-A1 loaded for 800$$, I shot it for about 3 months.
The pistol seemed to be well made and felt good in my hand when I bought it.
  It didn't shoot bad and functioned almost all the time. (almost) Would I bet my life on it in a gunfight, NO.
I was cleaning it one day and a grip screw stripped on me.  I WIll try to relate what happened next.
  My paper work from Springfield said, (In my words here)  This pistol will work for you or whoever owns it
for as long as it is on this Earth.  HUM?
  So I put the pistol down and picked up the phone. what followed was this.
No problem Sir We will issue a call tag and you can take it to the correct UPS place and we will fix it on our dime and pay shipping both ways.  UM, excuse me but I am 3 hours from a UPS drop off point and that may not work for me.--no problem we will have UPS pick it up at your door is tomorrow OK? YUP, fine.
 This was right before Thanks giving Holiday.
I made a list of what I didn't like and told them what I expected from my 800$$ pistol.
Some of the things were, I didn't like the welded barrel, It FTF at times and it FT eject at times, and naturally the grip screw. There were some other little things--I forget now what they were.
  I got the pistol back in 10 days and yes on there dime.
New barrel
new bushing
new guide rod
adjusted the trigger
new hammer
replaced all the grip screws
test fire and returned targets
Refinished the WHOLE pistol  ( stainless)
Refaced the breach face
New extractor
tightened the slide
COST to me--------0-------
  A Little communication on my part and a nice little letter.
I called them back and got the name of the repair person, and told him I thought I had paid for and got a good pistol when I bought it, He said you did --now you have a little better  one.
  True story.
I now have a pistol that WILL eat everything I feed it and yes it will chamber an empty case.
 Every 1911 can they just have to be made right.  In this case Springfield made it right at no cost to me and In a short time.  Go and research there customer service for yourself, and no I don't work for them.
  Now that I have had your ear for a while , let me just say again. Cheep is not always the best way to go,
all the bells and whistles are not needed on every 1911. 
  Now I can hold on to my holster for all the flaming about who got what and how great it is and how cheep it was. I didn't say all this for you folks. You already have all the answers--?
  Just trying to help someone with an open ear, that may want to save themselves a little grief.
 

Offline buck460XVR

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2010, 07:53:00 AM »
I have a post 2003 stainless 1991 80 series Government model that has eaten everything I have fed it without so much as a hiccup. This includes handloaded 185gr HPs, 200gr RSFNs, 230gr HPs along with various factory loaded 230gr FMJs and HPs.  I use standard 7rd Colt mags and find them very reliable. The blued versions can be had new for under $700 and the stainless for less than $800. I would consider them an excellent entry level 1911......and the best thing is they're a Colt.
"where'd you get the gun....son?"

Offline 1911crazy

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2010, 10:43:03 AM »
I've had good and bad with new 1911's.  I shoot only 230 FMJ Ball ammo in all my 1911's at first to see how they will cycle. I'm not fond of JHP's when it comes to reliability/dependability i think this is where the problems start with the 1911's because some won't shoot the JHP's but some will.

Everyone i talk with about my new Auto Ordnance army WW2 copy loves it and hasn't had any problems.  I'm not saying there all perfect, but it has to be a great 1911 if it functions right out of the box for me.  Its been flawless for over 500rds now with Wolf 45acp ball ammo.  Were talking a 1911 thats under $500 but the prices have been going up on them. I wanted a no frills, no bells or whistles 1911, just a plain jane shooter/beater.  Something thats cheap enough so i won't feel bad hammering the snots out of it with 3 or 4 of us at the range together. I think its much better than the shooter/beater i was looking for.

In the past spending $500 max has been my limit on handguns/rifles lately.  I'm not cheap i'm very very frugal.  If cost of a new 1911 I would browse the used gun case too.  There's nothing wrong with a used one, just inspect it good on the throat/ramp to see if its been modified and how much play there is on the slide to frame fit.

I was taught the 1911's should have that 1911 "rattle" when we shake it, thats the norm.  My buddy says that rattle means you got a good one.  I figure the rattle means its loose enough to be reliable/dependable.

On a new 1911 I clean it and polish the feed ramp before shooting it. Some 1911's have bluing on the feed ramps and it can put a drag on the bullet when feeding.  I like to eliminate that problem before i shoot it for the first time.

If you buy a new 1911 don't worry there is an awesome support group here if you have problems these guys are the best.

To me the low budget 1911's are Auto Ordnance WW2, Springfield armory G.I., the Charles daly, the S.A.M. and the RockIland armory (RIA).

Offline williamlayton

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2010, 01:10:30 PM »
Most common causes of failure in new guns:
Mags
Rough Throats
Ejector ports
Ejectors
Springs
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline mdi

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2010, 11:20:23 AM »
Well, with all my research for the last few months, going to gun shops, checking opinions on forums, and reading manufacturer's literature/web sites, I give up! I'm in a small town with only three places that sell guns. One shop had a Springfield for around $850, one had two RIAs, and the third had no 1911s on hand. I saw the RIA plane jane, matt finish M1911A1 and bought it. It seems a little rough cycling by hand (prolly 'cause it is brand spanking new, only been in the shop for a week) and came with a cheap magazine with a plastic follower, so I ordered a couple mags and am gathering up some 230 gr factory rounds.  as soon as it dries out here I'll put a bunch of rounds through her and see if she smoothes up and then decide if I got a good one...

Offline Swampman

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 11:26:47 AM »
The M1991 is very reliable.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline torpedoman

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 12:31:26 PM »
rock island mine and all others that i know of have been reliable from day one . accurate and a very good trigger right out of the box.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline bscman

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2010, 01:15:20 PM »
One quick mention to rock island armory/armscor pistols...

Their customer service is top notch--and this isn't just my opinion. There is a cult-like following over on m1911 forums. For the price (under $500 out the door) is great for a good, reliable, 1911...though with a cast frame and MIM parts.

I have first hand experience with their compact tactical, which gave me some problems with my first 2 boxes of ammunition. Swapping out the ACT mags to kimber pro-tacs solved the problem and I've had zero issues since.

If you want the bells and whistles, and are on a "severe" budget, it's worth a look.

Also, FWIW, I bought a Kimber Compact II stainless and a Colt Officer Enhanced blued...both in as-new condition with boxes/manuals/etc for $625 each out the door--don't rule out the used market. Most 1911 owners are very particular about their pistols and take extremely good care of them.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2010, 02:06:54 PM »
Just save your money up, and buy a Kimber Target (1911 w/ adj. sights).  End of story.................................................

Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2010, 03:20:28 PM »
I bought a Kimber for $942, so I'd have an accurate 1911 with night sights that never jammed.  Owners manual said break-in would require about 500 rounds.  I've passed that point by a little, and still sometimes I get a ftf, maybe once in five clips, which is too much. Using Kimber and Wilson Combat magazines, and the pistol doesn't seem to have a preference.  I'm hoping it'll straighten out with a little more shooting, because it is absolutely the most accurate 1911 I've ever owned or fired.  25 yard groups from sandbags is less than 1 1/2 inches.  I think maybe Kimber builds them too tight, putting accuracy above reliability.  Time will tell.   

Offline olydraft

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2010, 07:14:01 AM »
 You might also check out PARA Ordinance, basic 1911 for just over $600
If you want it destroyed right, call in a B-52
  "Have B-52 will travel"

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2010, 11:09:37 AM »
Its really simple.  Be it a gun, or a car, or a tooth brush, or a pair of shoes, you name it, and someone will come out and complain how it don't work, and is a piece of crap.  Read up a little on your choices, understand that, within reason, you usually get what you pay for, and that no made made item is going to be perfect, all the time, then make an intelligent choice. 

I can not think of one brand or model of 1911 that has not been criticized on these forums at one point or another.  So I guess that means there is no such thing as a good, reliable 1911, right?  There all crap.  Even my pet rock does not work right..... ::)

Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2010, 02:29:10 PM »
We all like 1911's or we wouldn't be here.  However, I remind you that these failure topics do not appear on revolver forums.  Revolvers do not fail to feed or fail to eject.  They just don't.  I know it's happened to someone somewhere, but I don't personally know of any revolver failures, and I was a cop before any of the agencies went to automatics.  I've fired thousands and thousands of revolver rounds, and stood beside men at the range time and again who also shot thousands of rounds, and I NEVER saw a failure.

Then the S&W 9mm craze hit.  I saw some failures.  My dept. went to S&W 10mm, and I saw some failures.  Even after we went to Sig .357's, I saw failures.  Not many, but some.   

That said, the 1911 has advantages over revolvers that make (or might make) them a better choice for some.  I'm just saying that generally, the reliability factor of revolvers wins out over the 1911.  We can do certain things to make our autos jam proof, but in the end, with a 1911, we're looking for a balance between tight tolerances and perfect feeding.  The average shooter can't often have both in a 1911, but he can always have both in an out-of-the-box revolver. 

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2010, 02:30:54 PM »
I meant to add that I'm a 1911 shooter, and I'll always prefer them over revolvers.

Offline S.S.

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2010, 03:22:40 PM »
Springfield I think are the best if your wanting a plain jane that shoots.

+1
To me plain jane is the way to go with a 1911. the more it is "Improved"
the less reliable it becomes!
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2010, 07:47:56 PM »
+1
To me plain jane is the way to go with a 1911. the more it is "Improved"
the less reliable it becomes!

I disagree on several levels. Perhaps I do not understand what you are saying.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2010, 05:50:44 PM »
This thread is staying alive at the top of the list, which should tell us that 1911 failures are a significant topic.  My previous post expressed my feelings on the matter, but I hope the thread stays alive long enough that we hear from others who have an opinion on the seriousness of 1911 failures.  It's the gun we carry, it's the gun we defend our homes with; therefore, the "failure factor" should not be ignored, but addressed here by those who have experience.  Failure in a 1911, IMO, is the single most important topic related to that particular weapon. 

Please, all input is welcome and useful.

Offline Dee

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2010, 01:10:32 AM »
When someone wants a reliability tune up, there are a number of things I check, and most times alter. FTFs can be, throat, ramp, EXTRACTOR, and magazines. If these four things are right, IT WILL FEED. On extraction I check, ejection port, ejector, extractor, and magazine. If these four things are right IT WILL EXTRACT AND EJECT.
I would caution folks with problem 1911s, about "gun smiths". The term "gun smith" does not usually mean "1911 Smith", and in fact, it SELDOM means "1911 Smith". I have spent almost 35 years learning all the little tricks to making a 1911 reliable, and just when I think I have heard them all, someone one comes up with another "little bitty tweak" that most times "claims to help" but doesn't really matter.
For instance a magazine. The problem in a magazine can be anything from a weak spring, to the feed lips being either to close, or too far apart.
I have found in many cases the Bill Wilson magazines are TOO CLOSE, and must be tuned to the pistol. I like his parts and have used a bunch of them, but facts is facts.
But lets take FTFs. Let's say we have a clean pistol, with an 18lb slide spring so no problem there. NOW! Eliminate the chamber throat, and feed ramp as the problem. Let's also eliminate the magazine as the problem. What could possibly be causing a FTF now? Let's also say that the tension on the extractor is correct, and has been polished, and the bolt face is smooth and polished, and let's even go so far to say that the firing pin hole has been fluted, and let's eliminate the shooter (tight grip vs limp wrist), but it still has an occasional FTF with good factory ammo. Do you know what the problem is?
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline fatercat

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2010, 01:38:50 AM »
Dee, i've been told that a tight grip will help. a loose grip will cause problems. regards, richard

Offline Dee

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2010, 01:43:08 AM »
Dee, i've been told that a tight grip will help. a loose grip will cause problems. regards, richard

Glad you mentioned it fatercat, but I am eliminating the shooter as well. We're talkin "pistol only". There is a method to my madness here, involving 1911 pistols.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Beans

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2010, 05:07:36 AM »
Most common causes of failure in new guns:
Mags
Rough Throats
Ejector ports
Ejectors
Springs
Blessings

You forgot to list " the new gun owner with a dremel tool"   :o

Offline mdi

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2010, 05:35:25 AM »
I started this post to try to get a general idea of which, if any, 1911 is most trouble free out of the box. But, that does not seem possible. Too many varied experiences with too many guns to get a consensis. My intention was to try to make my first purchase as trouble free as possible, and not wanting to get turned off from 1911s altogether because of a lemon. I know that modifications for accuracy may harm reliability, and I know that there are lemons sold out there too. But as a first 1911 I would want one to be fairly trouble free until I got to know the gun, it's operation, and care. I know it was designed for 230 gr ball and intended on using that for "familiarization" (a few hundred rounds or so), and I know about FTF using other than round nose bullets. I know about "limp wristing" and have never had any probs. with recoil, muzzle blast, etc. I own several other handguns and 7 of them are revolvers (from .22s up to .44 mag.) and a few are semi-auto (.22, 25, 380, and 9mm). I keep a 3" .38 Special in my levi's back pocket and it has never failed to fire, along with my other revolvers, and because of that reliability I was able to learn quite a bit about handgun care and feeding and quirks with different types of revolvers. I just wanted to get off on the right foot in my 1911 quest...

Offline Dee

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2010, 06:10:22 AM »
Like I said in my first post. Springfield plain jane is a good place to start. They used to call it the 1911A1.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2010, 10:41:24 AM »
Springfield plain jane is a good place to start.

Hey Dan.  I heard the speculation that the Springfield 1911 may now be made by Taurus.   :-\  Have you heard anything like that?  Seems to me they were made in the Phillipines, but I always heard they were a good basic 1911.
Richard
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Offline Dee

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2010, 01:42:15 PM »
Springfield plain jane is a good place to start.

Hey Dan.  I heard the speculation that the Springfield 1911 may now be made by Taurus.   :-\  Have you heard anything like that?  Seems to me they were made in the Phillipines, but I always heard they were a good basic 1911.

Richard I have no idea. I got completely out of the 1911 business a year or so ago, and quit keepin up with them. They were pretty good basic platforms. I bought them for builders occasionally for a cheap starter platforms after I turned in my FFL. I don't even take work from anyone now regarding pistols of any sort.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

sagegrouse715

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2010, 02:29:25 PM »
Larry,
Ditto on the Kimber 1911 Target pistols accuracy.  I bought a new one last spring.  Shooting from a 25 yd rest, I  made  a few shots adjusting the sights and cut one hole with 2 shots.  I was impressed.

Offline bubbinator

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Re: New 1911 failures
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2010, 06:21:59 PM »
I have carried 1911s since 1970 on duty as a LEO. Colt 70 series, 100%; ParaOrdnance X 2 100%; Springfield Armory 1911-A1 100%. Local Sheriff's Dept SWAT Team carried Springfield Armory 1911s, some w/ 40K rounds thru them, 100%.  They bought new Kimbers and sent them all back within 30 days with breakage and warranty issues.  They have new Springfields now. O erxperience with the others FWIW. Also carried a Detonics SS Mk VI 3" for a while as a backup in an ankle holster until I saw one in "just good" condition at a Gun Show for $1200.!  That one is a safe-warmer now.  Note: Brownell's sells Chip McCormick Power Mags at good prices and they are SS, and have never failed me in any of my 1911s.