Top break collectors

[shotgunner]

I recently ran into several top break 32 S&W revolvers. They are H&R, Iver Johnson and Hopkins & Allen. Some of these are neat little revolvers especially the one with the folding hammer spur. I think they might represent a good area to start collecting. They are not expensive yet, there are dozens of variations and theycan be found in good condition. Are any of you guys collecting these guns? Shotgunner

[S.S.]

One of my favorite types! Going to look at another one this saturday.

[Dee]

While I am not a collector, and keep only the guns I use, and family heirlooms, this is an Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works, Third Model in caliber 38 S&W. It belonged to my Cherokee Great Grandmother, and was manufacture between 1909 and 1941. Due to her age, and ownership of the pistol, I suspect it was purchased between 1909 and 1915, as that part of Oklahoma was a ruff place to be in her day.
My father said she was a dead shot with it, and sometimes used it to catch chickens that had left the coop for freedom.
With the stories I heard as a boy, I can see her standing in the doorway with her hand in her apron pocket, holding it, greeting a stranger, or deterring trouble. I had some family that were best described as about half outlaw.
About 6 months ago, I got the urge to here it speak just one more time, and shot 5 rounds thru it. The cylinder hand is worn, and you have to be careful but, it still shot true to aim. I know for a fact, it had not been fired in over 50 years.

[cybin]

I've got the hammerless version of the same gun in my safe--it is accurate--but very worn--scary to shoot.

cybin

[coyotejoe]

I bought several in .32 and .38 S&W which I intended to make into a display of "Saturday Night Specials" but can't seem to get around to it. I have three varieties of top latches and find it interesting that the most common latch is by far the weakest. The Webley type latch where a standing stud on the breech face fits into a mortise of the top strap is very much stronger and more durable than the S&W type latch which puts most of the stress of firing directly on the flimsy little latch and it's pivot screw. Yet the great majority of American top breaks used that latch type. S&W had a better idea in the Schofield but as soon as they lost that contract they returned to the flimsy #3 latch and continued with that for all of their top breaks and most of the cheap revolvers copied it.
The top photo is a Forehand & Wadsworth .38 with the S&W type latch and is loose as a goose. The Iver Johnson .32 is still so tight as to be a bit difficult to open. It has the stud and mortise latch secured with a transverse half-round bolt which rotates by lifting a small lever on the left side.
 The next photo is a Hopkins & Allen .38 with a different variety of top latch, also a stud and mortise type held down by two blades which lock into notches in the sides of the standing stud. It is also very tight but they went so far in making the gun safe to carry that it is very difficult to fire, the trigger pull is awful.
 Top break in these little guns is really foolish since speedy reloading is not an issue in pocket pistols. The simple solid frame guns where one pulls the cylinder pin and pops out the cylinder for reloading makes a gun much stronger, more durable gun and much cheaper to produce. Top break is certainly quicker to reload but not so quick that one would actually reload it in the kind of hand to hand barroom brawl for which these guns were used.

[Graybeard]

I don't really collect anything but dust  but have long wanted to have one or two of them just to have and perhaps put on the wall in a shadow box or some such. So far I've never done anything to make it happen.

[teamnelson]

Got an 1897 version of the Iver Johnson Safety Hammerless in .38 S&W that I've put a few rounds through. Still locks up tight, shoots true to aim. Family history piece.

If anybody ever got around to remaking them I think that'd be cool, especially with the popularity of low recoil rounds. If open carry ever became stylish again, I think a fancy top break with pearl grips would look pretty nice.

[shotgunner]

I ended up shooting a few of the ones I had before they sold. My reaction is that while they shot better then expected I would not want to be my life on one. The tiny sights and grips are difficult. The designs are interesting however, most of them sell for well under $100 and they do look pretty cool. I am once again spending my own cash on big S&Ws, but if I ever get to were I have all the ones I want, I am going to make a display of these little top breaks. Shotgunner

[coyotejoe]

Indeed the accuracy is very poor with these little guns and I found the velocity of the .32 and .38 S&W cartridges is even less than factory claims. Perhaps the ammo makers are deliberately loading the ammo down to avoid blow ups in these old timers but I think some velocity loss can be attributed to the guns themselves. For one thing, none of the four revolvers I own have throated chambers. That is to say, the chambers are bored one diameter straight through. With the cylinder off the gun one can drop a cartridge into the front of the chamber as easily as the rear. There is bound to be a lot of blow-by and pressure loss as the bullet wobbles through the oversize forward portion of the chamber before it hits the barrel. That would be another reason for the poor accuracy along with the skimpy sights. But these guns were never intended to be aimed, they're for point shooting at knife fighting range.

[dogngun]

Not really a collector, but I really like these old guns. I have 2 right now, an IJ  Safety Hammer from around 1900 and a H&R large frame Hammerless from around 1916, both .38 S&W's. The IJ came with the factory box and had a bit of the nickle missing and set me back all of $45. I just bought the H&R this afternoon for $75. It'sd about 95%, nickle, grips like new, and works just great. It's a smokeless powder gun and I will carry it.

I keep seeing a near perfect S&W topbreak .32 in its factory box, but the price is a bit more than I have to spend right now...maybe someday.

ADDED: These revolvers were the defensive arms of the working people of the late 19th and early 20th century, in the tough eastern cities and the west. They sold new for a few bucks, maybe a day's pay more or less. Many were carried every day and few were ever maintained at all. It is amazing to me to find one that is still working a hundred years or so after it was made, and If I would collect anything, these guns would be it. They are real history.

mark

[S.B.]

Joe, please be careful with the term "Saturday Night Specials", don't want to give the Libs any more gun powder than they already have?
Steve

[coyotejoe]

I do understand where you're coming from but we all know what a Saturday Night Special is and these little guns are definitive of that class. There is no appeasing the gun grabbers so why worry about it? If there is no place where gun owners can speak openly then all is lost already.

[shooter6br]

My H&R 32 S&W Long Fun to shoot with handloads.

[S.S.]

I don't consider many of these old top breaks as SN Specials.
Some were pretty finely fitted and finished.

[mcwoodduck]

A few years ago I found a Spur triggerd S&W No 1 in 38 S&W single action.
Neat little pocket pistol.
At Dad's there is a .32 S&W Double action that has been in the family for years.
Grand Dad was not a gun guy and from what I gathered it was his Grandmothers and she slept with it under her pillow at night and kept it in her apron during the day.  She owend and ran a boarding house.
I like the little gun.  It needs a new trigger as it will not hold the single action any more but will shoot double.

What I really like is the POP ranther than Bang the S&W (either 32 or 38) make.

[dieselman]

Yea I bought a little S&W top break in 38s&w and it set me back a big $25. It wouldn't fire cause the trigger spring was broke and lockin things up, found me a good chunk of spring steel and cut one out and bent it up to spec, she works like a charm. Tight cyl lock up and everything. Last PAT date is may of 1880, S/N of like 45XXX. Good buy I think.

[mcwoodduck]

Here is a S&W No 1

[pmeisel]

I have my wife's dad's, mother-in-law gave it to me not long before she passed.  H&R Premier in 32 S&W.  Took it out and shot it, liked it so much I bought another when I found one at a reasonable price.