Long Distance with the .50 cals?

[Triple Se7en]

Practice-Practice-Practice!
With the right environment & load, your Encore & my new Omega will keep within a 5" kill zone out to 200 yards with minimal drop.

Two years ago, my non-magnum, #11 capped inline Cabelas Rolling Block 54 275 grain Precision Silver Lightning sabot/bullets with 120 grains Pyro Select took a small buck down at 160.  I laid the horizontal crosshair across the top of his back.  

You gotta' know the "little stuff" about your gun. For instance! I knew that with a roughly 10mph crosswind, that Silver Lightning will travel roughly 6" horizontally at 125 yards shooting in my deer blind.  Outdoor conditions must be right & you must know what you gun/load will do at various yardages. Another for instance: I won't shoot beyond 100 yards if winds exceed 10 mph -- it's raining -- or the deer is on the run.

[Omega]

A buddy and I harvested two whitetail bucks last week with our Omega 50 cals. He shot his at 201 yards using a 240 grain XTP over 150 grains of RS loose. I shot mine at 220 yards with a 250 SST driven by 150 grains Pyro Pellets. Both shots were instant knock downs and the ranges were confirmed before shooting with laser range finders. Both of us have spent a lot of time at the range shooting these distances in preperation for this hunt.  
Rich

[crow_feather]

Yesterday, I went out and with a solid rest - knowing just how my bullet drops - with a 16 power scope - and a rangefinder - dropped my elk at 487 yards.  All I had to do was hold my crosshairs 4 feet above the elk's back knowing that the wind was blowing 3 mph at my muzzle.  

I used my 52 caliber thumblicker with a hobnob 273 grain softshoulder behind 200 grains of Goex 3f powder.


Now nobody else try this because I knew what I was doing.

[Omega]

I used my 52 caliber thumblicker with a hobnob 273 grain softshoulder behind 200 grains of Goex 3f powder.

Wouldn't that be in front of 200 grains? What gun do you use 200 grains in? What is your MV on that load? Using a 220 yard zero my load drops over 80 inches at 487 yards and has fell well below 800 ft lbs of retained energy set as a minimum for the ethical killing of game.  400 yards is as far as this load will shoot and still have more than 800 ft lbs.

Congratulations on the great shot! Was it a cow or all bull?
 
Rich

[Triple Se7en]

      Yesterday, I went out and with a solid rest - knowing just how my bullet drops - with a 16 power scope - and a rangefinder - dropped my elk at 487 yards. All I had to do was hold my crosshairs 4 feet above the elk's back knowing that the wind was blowing 3 mph at my muzzle. I used my 52 caliber thumblicker with a hobnob 273 grain softshoulder behind 200 grains of Goex 3f powder. Now nobody else try this because I knew what I was doing.
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Crow Feather

If you don't have anything in "real shooting terms" to add to this thread, please refrain from replying to it with absurd statements.

You did this on another thread recently -- it's really not funny or appreciated.

Otherwise Best Regards
 ----- Joe -----

[rollingb]

Crow Feather,.... HA! HA! HA!,.... Thanks!!.. "I needed thet!!"

[crow_feather]

Triple Se7en,

If you don't have anything in "real shooting terms" to add to this thread, please refrain from replying to it with absurd statements. You did this on another thread recently -- it's really not funny or appreciated.

Triple Se7en,

You should have read the reply I wrote to you.  It was great.  Except my dumb computer crashed and my reply is in computer crash history.

First I told you how I hate to say anything bad about people and will resort to humor to try to show them how I feel about a topic instead of speaking out against them in print.

Then I told you that you and the others were wrong to brag about the long shot that worked.  Because those that emulate you, and respect what you say, will also try the long shot.  Only they won’t have the practice or the knowledge and they will fail.  The result will be an animal that will suffer, until it dies.  Or until another hunter shoots it later in the year and can only keep part of the meat.

I wrote that when people see how far a good hunter can shoot, they are also going to “try” to shoot as far, because at the time, their good judgment is clouded.  That is why I get upset when I hear companies and others touting the 200 yard muzzleloader shot.

I apologized to you for attempting humor on your web site, although some people did think it was funny.  I finished by writing that if you can’t understand what people will "TRY" after reading your boasts about your long range shoots, you should refrain from writing in your web site.

You are a good writer, are respected by your peers, and have great knowledge about the black powder sports. Please don’t let people believe that the 200 yard shot can be made by the common person with a modern muzzle loader.

C F

[Omega]

Hey CF,
I knew exactly what you were doing as I'm sure you knew what my reply was about. I do my home work and never take an unethical shot, had there been that wind you mentioned the shot would never have happened. But just like the centerfire fellows who shoot 500 hundred yards and beyond not talking about it isn't going to stop it. The head in the sand approach hasn't worked for many things and won't in this case. I was answering a serious question with my real world experience and I clarified that it wasn't something to jump into lightly. More than that I can not do.
Here's something though, correct me if I'm wrong, but from your other posts I believe you shoot traditional PRB. Of all the projectiles used in ML rifles the round ball overwhelmingly accounts for the majority of injured and lost animals.  So should we not talk about using RB or perhaps try to educate the new comers to the sport on its ethical use?
I enjoy your posts and look forward to more.  
Rich

[rollingb]

<"Of all the projectiles used in ML rifles the roundball overwhelmingly accounts for the majority of injured and lost animals.">


WOW!!!!!.... I'd sure like to see some "proof", in regards to thet "statement"!!!!!!

[Omega]

Idaho did a detailed study where the recovered carcasses where autophsied and the round ball was the #1 cause of injury and lost animals by a very large margin.
Really it isn't very surprising when you look at the numbers, these are right off of Precision Rifles web site.
Bullet Type             Powder      M V FPS 50     100   150
175 gr Round Ball 100 gr FFF       1800 1378 1054  913
ML E FT. LB. 50 100 150
                       1259  696 431 324
Ballistic Coefficient
.068
 So effective killing range for a load with more than 800 ftlbs energy is sub 40 yards. Is it surprising that it is the number 1 wounder of game? How many 50 cal PRB shooters realize that they need to be in bow range to ethically kill a deer?
Rich

[rollingb]

Ther's sumpthin "AWFUL FISHY" 'bout them "numbers",.....

1st. thing is the "ball-weight",.... 175 grs. would reflect the "weight" of the liddle .45 cal. roundball, WHAT HAPPENED to the .50 and .54 caliburs which are "emmensely more popular" fer hunt'n big-game??

2. Last I heard,..  Idaho, is a "roundball-friendly" state,.... such a "study" (if it was "factual") would NOT go UN-noticed by the "Idaho DOW", I'm sure.

3. You found this "information" at,.... "Precision Rifles" web site?.... OK!!!!!.... NOW IT "ALL" MAKES SENSE!!!!!

4. Would you like to buy some "beach-front property" in Arizona??

[propredator]

A .490 rb for .50 cal is 177gr.dont know of any that are 175gr.Maybe you could cast em though.
 I think the point omega is making is that the shooter needs to be educated whether its a 200 yard shot with a bullet or 75 yard shot with a rb.Shot placement is what counts and knowing you can do it under the right conditions.
 Me i cant shoot my inline at 200 yards,but if i had one that would handle the powder load and shoot respectfully at that range i might try it if i couldnt get no closer.
 I cant shoot my 54 at much more than 50 yards with any confadance with open sights and a rb,my groups open up some at 75.
 I got the gpr shooten a conical pretty good so im going to use both rb and bullets,either way im looken at about a 75 yard shot max,i just dont see that great with open sights much farther.
 A lot of the inline shooters are using their guns in the regular gun seasons,not muzzle loader season.Im too cheap to buy them high priced shotgun sabots.I know omega uses and many others in the center fire seasons.
 Now i hope this all dont turn into one of them great debates about modern vrs traditional.
 An old coon told me once that there is one thing that cant be denided by anyone and that is before 1840 or so every creature taken by a rifle was more than likley shot with a round ball.
 Buckknife

[Omega]

How much do you suppose a 50 cal RB weighs? Depending upon actual diameter and tin content it ranges from 173 to 188 grains. The BC is still a sleek .068 and the heavier ball isn't going to extend that max range very much.  Your responce is typical of shooters who don't realize what they are actually hunting with.  How far do you shoot with you PRBs? Do you know what your load chronos and its maximum effective range? It is kind of frightening to think of some of the shots that are taken with a PRB isn't it?
4. Would you like to buy some "beach-front property" in Arizona??
Nope looks like you bought it, you can keep it.
 :roll:
Rich

[crow_feather]

We are shifting away from the meat of the thread.  Some people wrote about their two hundred yard shots with a muzzle loader and someone wrote a humerous article -yes humerous - that it was not proper to suggest to people they should shoot a muzzle loader - in-line or side lock -that far.

Prior to 1840 - a round ball kilt most everything that the cooks and doctors couldn't.

C F

[Omega]

Prior to 1840 - a round ball kilt most everything that the cooks and doctors couldn't.C F

You've ate in my camp?!?!  :-D  :-D
Rich

[Omega]

Im too cheap to buy them high priced shotgun sabots.I know omega uses and many others in the center fire seasons.
   Buckknife

Now they ain't that expensive!  :lol:  You, sir sound like you know your gun and load very well and I think I'd enjoy hunting with you.
 
Rich

[Triple Se7en]

1st. thing is the "ball-weight",.... 175 grs. would reflect the "weight" of the liddle .45 cal. roundball,"
============================================

Not so rollingb

I ran across some 175 50 cal balls at Gander Mountain on Saturday. The normal grains used by most ball makers is only two grains higher (177).

Some companies like Remington (gold balls) use different metals to formulate them -- the 175s are just a tad less dense (I think!)
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crow feather

No harm done -- it was a little funny and no way am I an expert on this sport. I just know a little about every form of muzzleloading except them dang flintlocks which I keep avoiding for fear I might like em' & spend more money on anothe bp rifle I really don't need. It's posters like you that I keep learnin' new stuff every week.

For instance! Just last week I read a Mamaflinter post describing how the grain numbers on those brass powder measures are based on FFF blackpowder. I never knew that & I suppose there's alot more things I don't know that I thought I did & took for granted.

Take Care!

[rollingb]

Omega,.... I've only hunted "big game" in Wyoming, and Akaska, over a "span" of 30+ years. and used nuthin "but" roundball, fer;.....

Antelope
Whitetail
Mule deer
Moose
Elk
Black bear
Caribou
Grouse
Bunnys
Coyote
Porkypine
feral dog
Win'n turkeys at "blackpowder shoots"
Won a "meat-shoot" in Fairbanks (100 lbs. "cut'n wrapped" rib-eyes'n T-bones)

I have a "chrony", I shoot 'tween 20-25 pounds of powder per-year, I've NEVER shot a "conical" type bullet out'a none'a my muzzleloaders.

PLEASE!!.... tell me more 'bout how the roundball is "lacking"!!

[Omega]

I have a "chrony",

Excellent! Tell me more, what do your round balls weigh and at what speeds do you shoot them.  Do you use a range finder? What is your average shot range? I love to pick the brains of old timers that "have been there and done that."
Rich

[rollingb]

T 7,.... I don't have a .50 cal. rifle to play with, or any .50 cal. balls to weigh, so,... I bet yore "right" 'bout the 50 cal. "weight".

Thet be'n said,.... roundballs "kill out of proportion to printed-ballistics thet use jackets, high velocity, weight, and etc. to establish "ballistics-standards" for "kill'n".

Roundballs do "shed velocity" rather quickly past 100 yards, but I ain't seen nobuddy reccomend'n shoot'n big-game animals with roundball, past 100 yards.

I shoot, .58's, .62's, and .75's nowadays (the .58 is my personal favorite),..... but, I have take'n several mule deer with .45 cal. "roundballs" years ago,... and a couple of'em were near 75 yard shots. "None" required a second shot, "none" were wounded and lost,.... and I believe ALL were killed "more by shot-placement",.... then "ball-weight"!!

A lot of the "hype" one reads today, is from companys sell'n ther "special bullets",..... in other words,.... for them it's a "money game".

[propredator]

Rich that came out sounding like  i was saying you use shotgun sabots,i ment to say that you and others as well as i use are inlines in the regular gun seasons.Which souldnt bother anyone.
 There is only shotgun in centerfire  season here in Iowa.then there is muzzle loading season.Now in the past i might have used a inline in muzzle loader season but i wont anymore,dont bother me if some one else does,that just me.
 the roundball game is all about getting close enough to the game to make that shot .have to know your gun and its limits.To many that is the esscense of muzzle loading.
 To others its about the modern muzzle loader and how far can it be taken to its limits,and there aint nuthin wrong with that either.
 now old Rollingb knows the roundball and traditional type guns like the back of his hand and much can be learned about such things from him.Because of him and some of the others i would feel guilty as sin to use my inline in muzzle loader season,i just hope i dont catch too much hell for usen a conical in the gpr sometimes. :-D  

[propredator]

rollingb thats quite a list of animals there.A porkypine?
 Let me guess,porkypine stew served with apple pie.

[Omega]

roundballs "kill out of proportion to printed-ballistics thet use jackets, high velocity, weight, and etc. to establish "ballistics-standards" for "kill'n".

Round balls maybe dear to your heart but they can't defy the laws of physics.

I shoot, .58's, .62's, and .75's

Dang those are big balls! What kind of muzzle velocity do you get out of a .75 cal ball? What does it weigh?
Rich

[crow_feather]

Triple Se7en,

You can't believe much of what mama says, why she puts - UGH - oil down her barrel stead of bear grease.  Next thing you know, she'll be putting foofurrahs all over her shootin gun and give it some floosy name like "Pretty Queen Flinter" or some such.

C F

[Omega]

Rich that came out sounding like  i was saying you use shotgun sabots,i ment to say that you and others as well as i use are inlines in the regular gun seasons.Which souldnt bother anyone.

Hey I never took any insult, I knew what you meant, and yes you are right I've never hunted in a ML only season yet and may never. I do love my ML's and the sport.
I have the utmost respect for the old timers of any shooting sport and if anyone thinks I've been disrespectful then you have my apology. I've never took shots at anyone for their choice of gun or load. They all work well with in their limits and none will ever out shoot a very finely tweaked 338 mag that is collecting dust in my gun cabinet.
I always figure each to their own, I like what I'm doing in smoke poles and believe we all have the right to choose for ourselves.
  Rich

[rollingb]

Howdy Propredator!!.... Nope!!.. I won't 'cause you no "grief"  :mrgreen: 'bout what you shoot out'a yore riflegun,.... jest use tha "projectile" thet gives you "the most confidence". I think if a feller has any "doubts" 'bout it,.... "shot placement" will be lack'n, 'cause "confidence" is a "tool of it's own"!!

Omega,.... My balls on-average weigh (+/- 4grs. approximately), 282 grs., 324 grs., 586 grs. (respectively) for .575's, .610's, and .735's,.... I've never shot the .62 NWTG (smoothbore), or the .75 Brown Bess (smoothbore) over my chrony (one of these days, I'll git around to more test'n,..... but really "suspect" thet smoothbores have a bit "higher velocity" then a "rifled" barrel, "all things be'n equal".

Velocity for my .58, 110 grs. FFG Goex blackpowder, "spit" for lube, "denum" patch material, averages 1925 FPS at 10 feet from muzzle.
This equates out to,... 2321 FPE by "modern printed ballistics",... which doesn't take into "account",... "large ball diameter", or the "pure lead construction",.. of the roundball.

A roundball is a, "a good-killer",.... and is "cheap",.... thet's why "bullet companys" don't reveal "tha whole story" 'bout'em!

[crow_feather]

Omega,
I found a load for the 338 that lets it shoot like a 358 Winchester.  
55 grains of IMR 4064 and a 200 grain bullet.  Accurate and hardly any recoil.  Makes it into a nice "less than elk" rifle.

[rollingb]

Propredator,.... I shot tha "porky" while he was busy chew'n on tha handle of my "wood-split'n" axe,..... in my "open-front wood-shed" up in Alaska.

You didn't expect me to "spank him",.... did'ja? :eek:

[johnt]

,I don't care what they say Prop!
 Yer greenriver by me!! :-D ,jus stay 'way from them possum squeezins an things'll set just fine!  
  take care pilgrim
just me;

[propredator]

Hey tacks,rollingb No possum squeezens eh.Maybe rollingb could render me up some porky squeezens :-D  :-D