Author Topic: Mountain Howitzer Carriage (Read 3359 times)

blackzano · « **on:** February 23, 2010, 07:43:31 AM »

Just finnished my full scale Mountain Howitzer Carriage last week. Project went pretty well. All steel is fabricated at home except for the elevating screw and screwbox which came from Trail Rock Ordnance. These are great people to deal with. All of my implements as well as ammunition is comming from them. The wood is oak from lumber I cut and curred years ago. Now the next project is finnishing the barrel which came from grey-star cannon technologies.

Max Caliber · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2010, 07:58:45 AM »

Very nice work. From the vegetation and all that crushed gravel, I would guess you're located somewhere in the mid-southeastern states.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2010, 08:02:29 AM »

That's a fine looking carriage, Blackzano; welcome to the forum.

RocklockI · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2010, 08:18:10 AM »

Very nice indeed ,

Gary

Zulu · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2010, 08:20:45 AM »

Nice work Blackzano. Where did the wheels come from. 12 spoke could be a wagon wheel.
Zulu

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2010, 08:41:10 AM »

Grey-star. Haven't heard much from them lately. Be sure to insist on a seamless liner with N-SSA breech plug from them and when you get the barrel check for straightness. They have a history!

dynomike1x1 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2010, 10:26:18 AM »

Looks good, only i cant imagine building a carriage and buying implements they are the easyist things to build. I got my elevator screw from an old office chair. I had to save money to buy powder, pool balls and lead.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2010, 10:35:46 AM »

Quote from: Zulu on February 23, 2010, 08:20:45 AM

Nice work Blackzano. Where did the wheels come from. 12 spoke could be a wagon wheel.
Zulu

Twelve spokes are the correct number of spokes on the wheels that were used on the three types of U.S. Mt. Howitzer carriage.

blackzano · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2010, 09:59:18 PM »

Thanks Guys, The wheels are wagon wheels from an old cotton wagon and I am located in east Mississippi. Thats a good idea using a screw from an office chair. Even with the $200.00 investment in the elevating screw and box. I am financially invested in the carriage about $300.00 without implements. The steel is from the scrap bin at the steel fabricator and the oxygen and acetelyne were donated. All the wood was hand cut years ago and dried. The trunnions are not perfectly even and a small adjustment had to be made in the cheeks. Not sure about the liner being seamless but I will find out.

Double D · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:02:00 AM »

Grey-star only sells the seamless as an option and won't offer or tell you about it. Ask them to provided certification the barrel will comply with N-SSA standards.

Terry C. · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2010, 11:19:49 AM »

DD, I was under the impression that the welded-seam liner issues were only with the 1" and 1.5" bores with the 'thin pipe' liners. Are there issues with the heavy tube liner used in the full scale Mt. Howitzer as well?

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2010, 12:59:09 PM »

with or without the liner, it will not pass inspection for the N-ssa. No cast mountian howitzers shall be shot, at least thats what the artillery inspector told me when i was thinking about getting a hern barrel and boring it out. maybe things have changed but i would give him a call.

rick bryan
3rd va co B
N-SSA

blackzano · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2010, 01:15:37 PM »

My barrel is not a seamless barrel.

Double D · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2010, 01:50:30 PM »

Sorry to hear that. It's not a disaster. Read this Welded seam liners

Since you didn't know about whether you had a seamless liner, then it is obvious Greystar didn't offer you the choice.

I have discussed this before with Greystar and at one time pulled their link from the link list for not offering seamless and telling people they were unecessary.

Seamed or seamless you are going to need a vent liner.

The other problem with Grey star is crooked liners. We have had two reported here. Both times Grey-star made good on the barrels Read this thread and the links in it. How is Gray- Star Technologies?

blackzano · « **Reply #14 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:05:14 PM »

Thanks for all the info. I went through my emails with grey-star and found where I asked about the liner and was told that it was seamed and that because of the thickness it was just as good. I bought it a year ago and don't even remember why I asked the question. I don't plan to shoot it much and will take the advise and precautions on the forum.

Double D · « **Reply #15 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:26:26 PM »

Quote from: Terry C. on February 24, 2010, 11:19:49 AM

DD, I was under the impression that the welded-seam liner issues were only with the 1" and 1.5" bores with the 'thin pipe' liners. Are there issues with the heavy tube liner used in the full scale Mt. Howitzer as well?

It's any welded seam liner. Welded seam is welded seam, thick or thin. You will have to go back to some old issues of Artilleryman and look at the various articles on the topic. It has to do with the weld not thickness.

blackzano · « **Reply #16 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:32:17 PM »

I went to look at my liner and tried to find the seam. I can't feel a ridge and the liner is perfectly uniform. How do I find the seam to inspect it?

Double D · « **Reply #17 on:** February 24, 2010, 04:50:02 PM »

It may look like this.

If they polished or reamed the bore you might not be able to find it. You still might be able to find it by holding a strip of paper with your finger and rubbing it around the inside of the bore. You should feel a bump or depression as you rub.

blackzano · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2010, 01:58:50 AM »

Thanks Double D

Soot · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2010, 02:12:50 AM »

I believe the issue with a welded seam is the microscopic porosity associated with the weld. Black powder will be blasted into the pores and will be impossible to clean out. This is where the corrosion will start and the future failure. Smoothing or polishing the seam doesn't remove the pores.
There are three classes of manufactured tubing: seamless, as-welded or electric resistant welded (ERW), and drawn-over-mandrel (DOM).
Seamless tubing is produced via extrusion or rotary piercing.
Drawn-over-mandrel tubing is made from cold-drawn electrical-resistance-welded tube that is drawn through a die and over a mandrel to create such characteristics as dependable weld integrity, dimensional accuracy, and an excellent surface finish.

blackzano · « **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2010, 03:54:47 AM »

Does neutralizing the corrosiveness of the powder with ammonia when cleaning stop the corrosion as with ammo with corrosive primers?

Double D · « **Reply #21 on:** February 25, 2010, 05:02:00 AM »

No, because in gun barrels there isn't (theoretically) any micro pores created by a weld. If it was a simple thing like cleaning we wouldn't express the concern beyond suggesting anti corrosive compound cleaning methods.

This isn't anything is going to cause your cannon to fail today, your cannon may never fail. It's circumstance that raises the possiblility that it will fail in the future.

Writing this makes me think of a couple cannon accidents that have been reported here on the board. A common thread reported in the two accidents Thurston Co. Washington was they shot the guns for years with out a problem. Now granted there may be other contributing factors in those accidents, I have to wonder if this concern of corrosion in the micro porosity may have played a part.

I am really sorry to have to be the spoiler and tell you this after you have spent your money. If you had come to us first we would have warned you. Hopefully others will read this and be fore warned.

It has nothing to do with GreyStar cannons. They build a beautiful gun. If were I were closer to them than I am Hern, and I was in market for this type of cannon, I would buy from them, but I would specify a seamless liner.

The sad part is that if one of these seamed liners fails it probably will be long after the company the made the cannon ceases to exist.

Shoot, your cannon. Do the periodic inspections. And at the first sign of concern fill it full of cement.

blackzano · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2010, 07:51:58 AM »

Thanks for all the info. I am soaking this up like a sponge.

Terry C. · « **Reply #23 on:** February 25, 2010, 10:10:52 AM »

Quote from: Double D on February 24, 2010, 03:26:26 PM

Quote from: Terry C. on February 24, 2010, 11:19:49 AM
DD, I was under the impression that the welded-seam liner issues were only with the 1" and 1.5" bores with the 'thin pipe' liners. Are there issues with the heavy tube liner used in the full scale Mt. Howitzer as well?

It's any welded seam liner. Welded seam is welded seam, thick or thin. You will have to go back to some old issues of Artilleryman and look at the various articles on the topic. It has to do with the weld not thickness.

Yeah, I know that. I was just under the impression (for some forgotten reason) that the bigger gun got upgraded materials. I see I was wrong.

Double D · « **Reply #24 on:** February 25, 2010, 02:44:49 PM »

You weren't wrong, you just weren't sure, that's different.

blackzano · « **Reply #25 on:** April 04, 2010, 11:56:10 AM »

Finally finnished the barrel. This project is just about complete. Just waiting on the friction primers to get here to give it a test run.

Double D · « **Reply #26 on:** April 04, 2010, 01:10:46 PM »

Looks good, like it very much!!

Why don't you put up some pictures from your free picture hosting sight at https://www.gboreloaded.com/mhp/join.php.

little seacoast · « **Reply #27 on:** April 08, 2010, 02:46:00 AM »

I really like your finished gun and carriage, so much so that I emailed the maker to see about ordering a barrel with seamless liner. Surprise! They do not make this gun with a seamless liner, said there had been no demand so they no longer stock seamless liner for their full size barrrel. Live and learn I guess.

Double D · « **Reply #28 on:** April 08, 2010, 03:22:30 AM »

Little Seacoast was that Graystar?

little seacoast · « **Reply #29 on:** April 08, 2010, 09:18:07 AM »

DD, yes it was Greystar. Very nice about it but no seamless in full size.