Author Topic: Help on .44 mad load (Read 1353 times)

Gene R · « **on:** February 23, 2010, 01:28:42 PM »

I need some input here....................
Hey Guys I bought a Taurus 44 mag and it shoots real accurate with Win 240 gr white box.

I loaded up a few with 21.5 gr of H4227, win large pistol stand/mag primers and Hornady 240 gr XTP, shot it and very eratic also noticed that there was a lot of unburnt powder raining out, in fact had some come back from the 4" ported barrel and cut my ear enough to bleed.

I want to keep the load mild around 1100 - 1200 fps, I have some H110 I wounder if that will be better.

I also noticed that H4227 is no longer on the Hogdon web site

?? But IMR4227 is and looks real close to H4227. Did they replace it and why?

?

Drilling Man · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2010, 02:27:15 PM »

22.0 of H110, CCI 350 primer, and a cast 250 grain bullet. It will do everything a 44 should be doing...

Yes you can use a jacketed 240 grain instead...

DM

sbhg · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2010, 02:58:22 AM »

I would try H-110 without the magnum primer.
You could also try some 2400 and Unique.
Midway carries that winchester bullet, if you want to try it.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:11:20 AM »

First, stop shooting it. If its that erratic, then something is wrong. I have never heard of being injured by un-burned powder. Are you sure it is not spitting due to a loose lock up or misaligned cylinder to barrel? I have never used any of the 4227 powders, but if there is that much unburned powder, there could be several causes. Some powders, like 296 / 110 burn best with a heavy crimp for complete combustion. Could be the same with 4227. Could just be bad powder. How old are the primers? They could be weak. I would have the gun checked. If its OK, then dump the powder, and start fresh. 296/110 are great full power powders for the .44mag, but not suitable for reduced loads. Unique is a great mid-range powder for less then full power loads, and can be used with standard primers. I still put a bit of a crimp even on my target loads. Seems to help consistency, and prevents bullets from moving forward and jamming the gun under recoil.

Larry

Catfish · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2010, 04:22:16 AM »

H 110 or Win. 296, same powder, is the only powder I keep on hand for hot loads in handguns. I load it in .357, .41 mag., .44 mag., .45 Colt., .454, 460 and 500 S&W. Crimp tight.

Gene R · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2010, 05:34:57 AM »

It was definatly powder, I picked pieces off my face and out of my ears.
I did use a heavy crimp.
Powder and primers both about a year old. Primers work fine with 45LC loads with tight group
Had the same problem with H4227 in 45LC last year ended up switching to tight group

I loaded a few rounds last night with 21.5 gr of H110 I'll let you know how the do.

I also might try to find some HS-6, I am looking for mind loads, NOT FULL POWER

Thanks for the input, all advise is welcome

Steve P · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2010, 05:35:52 AM »

My first thoughts after reading first post were: 1. bad crimp. H4227 likes a heavy roll crimp. 2. excessive barrel / cylinder gap.

Steve

buck460XVR · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2010, 07:32:45 AM »

My 629 likes 23 grains of H110/W296, WLPs and the Hornady 240JHP. This shoots very accurate and very consistent. I bump it up to 23.5 for hunting whitetails.

Quote

Unique is a great mid-range powder for less then full power loads

I agree.

huntducks · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2010, 08:13:57 AM »

If i'm shooting mild load lead bullets it's unique if I want to move up I use both Blue Dot and 2400 I like the blue dot most of the time because it uses way less powder and I get way more loads out of a can then 2400 i'm a cheap SOG when it comes to pistols and plinking loads.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2010, 08:46:23 AM »

I've got to agree with Larry. +1
Only time I've had close to "powder shrapnel" was with a 357Max in a Ruger Super Blackhawk. It was just a touch out of time and spit lead and got powder blowback - but that runs at much higher pressure than 44mag, so just might be something amiss there. 4227 can be hard to ignite. I used a bunch 30 years ago and when it was gone, it was gone. Just didn't trip my trigger, no pun intended. Too many others that worked too good for me to fight one trying to make it work.

Does it work ok with factory fodder?

Drilling Man · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2010, 10:58:42 AM »

Quote from: Gene R on February 24, 2010, 05:34:57 AM

It was definatly powder, I picked pieces off my face and out of my ears.
I did use a heavy crimp.
Powder and primers both about a year old. Primers work fine with 45LC loads with tight group
Had the same problem with H4227 in 45LC last year ended up switching to tight group

I loaded a few rounds last night with 21.5 gr of H110 I'll let you know how the do.

I also might try to find some HS-6, I am looking for mind loads, NOT FULL POWER

Thanks for the input, all advise is welcome

I have seen 4227 do that before out of a 44 magnum... Those little logs on fire, going everyplace...

Anyway, you said you wanted a 1,100 - 1,200 fps load, so that's why i posted the 21.0 of H 110. That will get you the speed you want, at least that's what i've seen it chrono out of the different guns i tried it in.

I do agree that Unique makes a good lighter load, but from about 1,100 on up, i prefer H 110. My prefered hunting load for everything from moose on down, is 23.0 of H 110, CCI 350 and a hard cast 250 grain bullet out of my RCBS mould 44-250KT.

I've taken moose with this load, and i've also won a lot of long range silhouette matches with it too.

DM

Sweetwater · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2010, 12:26:41 PM »

DM - that sounds like a dandy hunting load

Gene R · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2010, 12:46:03 PM »

I shot 20 rounds of 21.5 gr of H110 today, no unburnt powder at all, not the accuracy I'm looking for but now I have something to play with. I'll load a couple at each, 21gr, 20.5 gr and 22 gr, 22.5 gr and see where the accuracy goes.

Also shot a few of the factory loaded Hornady 44 spec 180gr XTP's that I had in the cabinet, very accurate, 3" group at 35 yrds. I might look at some cast 240gr at around 950fps, but that will have to wait a week or two til I can order some supplies.

Gene R · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2010, 05:41:50 PM »

Don't want to wear out the questions, BUT

The Hornady manual recommends a Starting load of 20.7 gr of H110 with a .430dia xtp for 1100fps

Would it hurt to start out a little lower at 20gr of H110? (.7gr under recommended load)

Just trying to tame it down a bit and maybe improve on accuracy?

gypsyman · « **Reply #14 on:** February 24, 2010, 08:26:36 PM »

Gene, don't push going to light a load with H110. Your really not going to ''lose'' that much velocity with .7 less. As far as the 4227 powder, it just burns dirty. Or, leaves residue in the barrel. I've used standard and well as mag primers with it. Just the way it is. gypsyman

Gene R · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2010, 02:04:25 AM »

Thanks
I'm finding out that 4227 is not a powder for me either.

I'm trying to get middle of the road so to speak, in between 44 special and 44 mag. I am going to use it as a woods/boat gun. May have to take a deer under 40 yards, a gator, rattle headed copper mocasan, maybe a wild hog under 4o yards, and alot of really mean stumps/pine cones/tin cans.

Standard Winchester white box shoots accurate, but alot of recoil and noise out of a compact frame 4" ported barell.

I also shoot a 45LC 250gr flat poit at about 950-1000fps out of 5 1/2" black hawk and like it a lot. Is it possible to have the 44 to duplicate this kind of round?

I really do appreciate the help, I can't find real mild 44mag loads or hot 44 special loads in my manuals. All 240gr 44 spec loads seem to stop at 800ish fps and 15000cup, and all 44mag loads start around 1100-1200fps and 22000 cup- Leaves alot of middle ground to me. If I could find a manual to fill that gap, I would buy one.

My manuals show Ruger/TC loads for the 45LC but not 44spec or lite 44 mag?

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2010, 04:05:59 AM »

Give 2400 a try. I think you'll find something in the neighborhood of 17.0 to 18.0 grains to deliver the velocity you want and generally accuracy is excellent. We used to compete very successfully in NRA silhouette matches using 17.5 grains of 2400 with Lyman 439244 GC bullets. It became one of my all time favorite loads.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2010, 06:29:05 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on February 25, 2010, 04:05:59 AM

Give 2400 a try.

+1

Bill gave me the same advice when I got my first 44 Mag. I've got 3 now, 2 revolvers and a rifle, and I haven't found any reason to try anything else! cast or jacketed...

Gene R · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2010, 06:48:36 AM »

Greybeard - Thanks for that recipe, I am going to order me a pound of 2400 today and some Lyman bullets. I think I found that load in my Lyman Loading Manual after you told me about it, In dont know why I couldnt see it until you point it out?

The manual calls for a Lyman 429424 I will check on line to find the Lyman 439424 I dont know the diffrence but I will look.

Thanks Again, I will let you know how it does.

buck460XVR · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2010, 07:23:25 AM »

Quote from: Gene R on February 25, 2010, 02:04:25 AM

Thanks
I'm finding out that 4227 is not a powder for me either.

Standard Winchester white box shoots accurate, but alot of recoil and noise out of a compact frame 4" ported barell.

I have never tried H4227, but have good luck with IMR4227 in my .460 X-Frame, PC Magnum Hunter .44 and the .357 Carbine. My experience is that it likes long pipes compared to short one's.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2010, 08:19:30 AM »

Gene R - I think Graybeard has a typo on that "439244" - as Lymans 439 series is for old 44 rifles. I believe Bill meant the 429244 GC and that is extremely popluar. Very, very good all around bullet for the 44mag. At your proposed velocity range, the 429421 PB would also be a decent number - between 10 and 11 grains of Unique with either bullet will get you there and you really don't need a gas check at that velocity. HTH

Jeff

KansasPaul · « **Reply #21 on:** February 25, 2010, 03:30:03 PM »

If you are happy with the White Box rounds, why not duplicate them using W296? I have had great success in my Ruger Redhawk using W296 for hot loads (do not reduce powder weight) and W231 for mild cast loads. Winchester has load data available on thier website.

rybo · « **Reply #22 on:** February 26, 2010, 03:16:39 PM »

Those that brought up unique for a mid level load, are you dropping from the listed loads or using the normal start/max loadings?

Sweetwater · « **Reply #23 on:** February 26, 2010, 06:57:06 PM »

Quote from: rybo on February 26, 2010, 03:16:39 PM

Those that brought up unique for a mid level load, are you dropping from the listed loads or using the normal start/max loadings?

My input was based on what would get him his 950-1000fps that he wanted to duplicate his 45Colt load. It is within the min/max spread in the manuals.